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  1. #9826
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    You are going to love King in Black.

    <runs away, laughing maniacally>Geoff</runs away, laughing maniacally>
    I look forward to it

    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    This is the most feasible direction to take the character. Princess Shuri and the PRIDE (Princess Research Initiative Division Executives). Shuri is all about tech and expanding Wakanda's tech package. As Head Engineer of the Wakandan Design Group, she outfits and leads a team of young Wakandans all enhanced with tricked out tech and/or superhuman abilities, acting as a rapid response tech squadron.

    They specialize in advancing Wakandan knowledge, deployment to hostile environments, neutralizing exotic threats with the latest in experimental tech. Like Redjack floated a few pages back, put them on those quirky Journey Into Mystery-esque adventures, centered around discovery and transmission of what they learn back to Wakanda. One minute they're in a dark dimension looking for a new energy source, next they're deep in the mutated swamps of Serpent Valley searching for some cure. Throw in some YA slice of life stuff (shitty boyfriends, girls night outs, etc.) and you got a viable route for Shuri to be the collegiate, Disney princess version of Moon Girl or Ironheart.
    Yeah I would focus Shuri on looking at the latest and greatest whole T'Challa focuses on the big picture, end game stuff like Wakandan/ earth defense, not to say either couldn't switch but their personalities usually focus on those specific areas. And yeah that's where Shuri will thrive. Disney princess discovery and weird stuff (like ultimates but smaller scale) and discovery. I would throw on the kids from Hickmans run, and maybe QDJ and vibraxas. 3 guys, 3 girls, each with their special abilities and personality

  2. #9827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I look forward to it



    Yeah I would focus Shuri on looking at the latest and greatest whole T'Challa focuses on the big picture, end game stuff like Wakandan/ earth defense, not to say either couldn't switch but their personalities usually focus on those specific areas. And yeah that's where Shuri will thrive. Disney princess discovery and weird stuff (like ultimates but smaller scale) and discovery. I would throw on the kids from Hickmans run, and maybe QDJ and vibraxas. 3 guys, 3 girls, each with their special abilities and personality
    Yup, T'Challa is focused on the immediate political/security concerns of today in the hopes of making a better future gradually. Shuri has the luxury of forging a better future via technology at a faster pace and that should be the thematic distinction between them. He's bigger picture and has more to consider, giving Shuri the space to do her part for the kingdom. I definitely think it'd be easy to give Shuri some of the young Wakandans that've been languishing in irrelevance for years now.

    I'd keep a tight cast of 5 personally, Shuri as the lead and 4 main supporting characters. And if we're pushing this for the YA audience I'm inclined to do 3 girls and 2 boys for that "girl power" vibe, but 6 with an even gender split works about as well. My ideal team would be:

    Shuri- head of the Wakandan Design Group, uses specializes gauntlets for energy projection and momentum manipulation, with additional lasers, mini-rockets, etc. Smartest woman in Wakanda and our main lead
    QDJ- Shuri's best friend, back to being a Jabari Dora, specializes in sociology/psychology as a reminder of her activist roots
    Muti- mutant hacker from a small Mute Zone, master of computer tech, not much of a fighter, best friends with Vibraxas, the quippy one
    Vibraxas- strongman of the team, not too interested in science but he's QDJ's boyfriend and he's the most experienced super on the team outside Shuri
    Asha- a vibranium mutate like Vibraxas, a genetics and biotech genius, a bit vain and arrogant, has a rivalry with Shuri

  3. #9828
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    I would say Hudlin did it exactly right. Shuri should aspire to the highest position in the country just like every other citizen. He didnt do like Coates and try to force a new character into prominence. He didnt do like Priest and say the star of the book was Ross. He created a new character and gave her from what I remember two subplots. One in WitBP and Back to Africa.

  4. #9829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    I would say Hudlin did it exactly right. Shuri should aspire to the highest position in the country just like every other citizen. He didnt do like Coates and try to force a new character into prominence. He didnt do like Priest and say the star of the book was Ross. He created a new character and gave her from what I remember two subplots. One in WitBP and Back to Africa.
    Hudlin did a bad job with her character and only made her worth saving by taking T'Challa's mantle. Shuri should've wanted to serve her kingdom like every Wakandan, not want to be Black Panther. She should've had the skills to take the role if needed, but to have her actively thirst after the position was not good. When you're building a franchise creating mirror characters without a firm direction to take them in clutters the cast and creates unnecessary tension within the narrative.

    Shuri starting out as a power-hungry warrior with the same training as T'Challa who got cheated by fate out of the BP mantle was not a good starting point if the goal was to create a fresh new legacy. Even if that's how she started out, the endgame should've always been to give her something to call her own. It's one thing if it was like Miles in the Ultimate Universe and she was intentioned to be a permanent replacement for T'Challa, but that wasn't the case.

    She was always going to be below T'Challa in-universe if she didn't have her own lane to thrive in, which is something Hudlin should've realized early on. Giving such a blank slate character the mantle allowed her to get morphed into a clone of her brother who up until very recently had no meaningful direction to go in because of how poorly thought out she was. That falls on Hudlin.

  5. #9830
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Hudlin did a bad job with her character and only made her worth saving by taking T'Challa's mantle. Shuri should've wanted to serve her kingdom like every Wakandan, not want to be Black Panther. She should've had the skills to take the role if needed, but to have her actively thirst after the position was not good. When you're building a franchise creating mirror characters without a firm direction to take them in clutters the cast and creates unnecessary tension within the narrative.

    Shuri starting out as a power-hungry warrior with the same training as T'Challa who got cheated by fate out of the BP mantle was not a good starting point if the goal was to create a fresh new legacy. Even if that's how she started out, the endgame should've always been to give her something to call her own. It's one thing if it was like Miles in the Ultimate Universe and she was intentioned to be a permanent replacement for T'Challa, but that wasn't the case.

    She was always going to be below T'Challa in-universe if she didn't have her own lane to thrive in, which is something Hudlin should've realized early on. Giving such a blank slate character the mantle allowed her to get morphed into a clone of her brother who up until very recently had no meaningful direction to go in because of how poorly thought out she was. That falls on Hudlin.
    Why not? Should every American tell their child they shouldn't want to be President? Just settle for second place?

  6. #9831
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Yup, T'Challa is focused on the immediate political/security concerns of today in the hopes of making a better future gradually. Shuri has the luxury of forging a better future via technology at a faster pace and that should be the thematic distinction between them. He's bigger picture and has more to consider, giving Shuri the space to do her part for the kingdom. I definitely think it'd be easy to give Shuri some of the young Wakandans that've been languishing in irrelevance for years now.

    I'd keep a tight cast of 5 personally, Shuri as the lead and 4 main supporting characters. And if we're pushing this for the YA audience I'm inclined to do 3 girls and 2 boys for that "girl power" vibe, but 6 with an even gender split works about as well. My ideal team would be:

    Shuri- head of the Wakandan Design Group, uses specializes gauntlets for energy projection and momentum manipulation, with additional lasers, mini-rockets, etc. Smartest woman in Wakanda and our main lead
    QDJ- Shuri's best friend, back to being a Jabari Dora, specializes in sociology/psychology as a reminder of her activist roots
    Muti- mutant hacker from a small Mute Zone, master of computer tech, not much of a fighter, best friends with Vibraxas, the quippy one
    Vibraxas- strongman of the team, not too interested in science but he's QDJ's boyfriend and he's the most experienced super on the team outside Shuri
    Asha- a vibranium mutate like Vibraxas, a genetics and biotech genius, a bit vain and arrogant, has a rivalry with Shuri
    That works too, this is a good angle to play on and works because all the characters are established to some extent. I can't think of any other character to be added but I personally like teams of 6 but that's just me. This can work pretty well, the rivalry angle can work, maybe even a love triangle if they really wanted to play o. The YA between Shuri Muti and Asha. Though I would maybe also have QDJ e the "Ace" so to speak of the team. She, like Shuri should be sporting some serious tech of nothing than the fact that she was personally trained by Okoye, arguably the greatest warrior in Wakanda second to T'Challa obviously.

  7. #9832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Why not? Should every American tell their child they shouldn't want to be President? Just settle for second place?
    Children? No, it's ok for them to dream and parents to encourage it, trust me. But if a parent's got a twenty-something year old daughter still hoping for the highest office in the land and refusing to even consider a second goal then they're failing their child. Objectively.

    That's not a healthy mindset to develop and in the context of the fictional BP franchise, it's not good for diversifying the character base and making a stronger property. You end up with a situation where you got T'Challa, the character people actually care about, and his sister, who's just T'Challa with boobs and who'll never become the real BP. The logical thing to do is have Shuri, with all her qualifications, transition into her own lane. Mysticism, sci-fi adventure, whatever. Something where she's the indisputable lead and doing massive amounts of good independent of her brother. That's how you construct a franchise and find roles for characters.

  8. #9833
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Children? No, it's ok for them to dream and parents to encourage it, trust me. But if a parent's got a twenty-something year old daughter still hoping for the highest office in the land and refusing to even consider a second goal then they're failing their child. Objectively.

    That's not a healthy mindset to develop and in the context of the fictional BP franchise, it's not good for diversifying the character base and making a stronger property. You end up with a situation where you got T'Challa, the character people actually care about, and his sister, who's just T'Challa with boobs and who'll never become the real BP. The logical thing to do is have Shuri, with all her qualifications, transition into her own lane. Mysticism, sci-fi adventure, whatever. Something where she's the indisputable lead and doing massive amounts of good independent of her brother. That's how you construct a franchise and find roles for characters.
    But within universe, she should want to be be BP. So should Wkabi, Zuri, Hunter and every other Wakandan. That doesn't mean it's the only thing they do, but they should be studying and training for the next challenge day.

  9. #9834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    Why not? Should every American tell their child they shouldn't want to be President? Just settle for second place?
    I'll come at it at a different angle. Re-read my idea from. Above. It's perfectly okay for her to want the mantle, and feel cheated. The problem starts to occur after the events of WitBP. She was shaken up after killing radioactive man and became African paris hilton, dealing with the trauma, strike one.

    Strike two was when she didn't get any further development after this, and then the final strike is that she gets judged by bast and rejected, yet still becomes BP and what did we get? Inferior T'Challa with boobs and no direction or development other then being power hungry. My idea was to have the trauma used in a way that's not so.. westernised. I hated the whole Paris Hilton party angle that was portrayed, coming from Wakanda I would expected her trauma to be manifested in a way that was unique to the area. Especially given Wakanda was isolated for so long I doubt she would immediately go to America and party.

    She should of talked to T'Challa, or the mother about how she felt. She feels guilty, being a warrior nation and her feeling so choked up after killing an enemy of the nation, she feels like she has somehow failed and hopes that if she travels with T'Challa on missions, she will "get over it" have her actually come to terms with what happened and whats required to be the leader of a nation, and the hard choices that come with it.

    So being offered it and rejecting it because she knows her path and it's not to be the BP (as it would never be permanent) would of been better for her overall and allowed for a realist and obtainable position that could be the second highest position behind King and BP
    Last edited by Ezyo1000; 11-30-2020 at 04:38 PM.

  10. #9835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    That works too, this is a good angle to play on and works because all the characters are established to some extent. I can't think of any other character to be added but I personally like teams of 6 but that's just me. This can work pretty well, the rivalry angle can work, maybe even a love triangle if they really wanted to play o. The YA between Shuri Muti and Asha. Though I would maybe also have QDJ e the "Ace" so to speak of the team. She, like Shuri should be sporting some serious tech of nothing than the fact that she was personally trained by Okoye, arguably the greatest warrior in Wakanda second to T'Challa obviously.
    Yea, I think a cast of 5 is sufficiently small enough that you can put the majority of the focus on Shuri while still having space to give 4 other characters development. You could theoretically do that with a cast of 6 though, it just comes down to how good a writer is at balancing characters and subplots without compromising Shuri's paneltime.

    I agree they could go the love triangle route. I'm personally not a fan of it in the books I read but if it were a title geared towards the YA crowd that might work. I'm a little weary of Shuri with a mutant though, ngl. Maybe Muti eventually picks Asha and Shuri has to find someone else or something? And agreed, QDJ would be tied with Shuri for best martial artist, maybe give her some unique short-spears and her own vibranium exoskeleton?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    But within universe, she should want to be be BP. So should Wkabi, Zuri, Hunter and every other Wakandan. That doesn't mean it's the only thing they do, but they should be studying and training for the next challenge day.
    Should she though? Not every Wakandan wants to be BP, only a couple actually compete in Challenge Day. Similar to the States, most kids probably muse about being the leader of the nation, but by the time they're able adults they've found new passions and goals. As Redjack stated, Wakanda isn't Sparta.

    Every Wakandan can fight in the name of their kingdom but that doesn't mean everyone wants to rule or be a badass warrior. Shuri's in a place where she should absolutely be trained, as in the event T'Challa dies she should have the skills to take the throne in his place. But in-universe she should have enough maturity to recognize she should focus on other things and stop challenging her brother. Same goes for those in T'Challa's circle.

  11. #9836
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I'll come at it at a different angle. Re-read my idea from. Above. It's perfectly okay for her to want the mantle, and feel cheated. The problem starts to occur after the events of WitBP. She was shaken up after killing radioactive man and became African paris hilton, dealing with the trauma, strike one.

    Strike two was when she didn't get any further development after this, and then the final strike is that she gets judged by bast and rejected, yet still becomes BP and what did we get? Inferior T'Challa with boobs and no direction or development other then being power hungry. My idea was to have the trauma used in a way that's not so.. westernised. I hated the whole Paris Hilton party angle that was portrayed, coming from Wakanda I would expected her trauma to be manifested in a way that was unique to the area. Especially given Wakanda was isolated for so long I doubt she would immediately go to America and party.

    She should of talked to T'Challa, or the mother about how she felt. She feels guilty, being a warrior nation and her feeling so choked up after killing an enemy of the nation, she feels like she has somehow failed and hopes that if she travels with T'Challa on missions, she will "get over it" have her actually come to terms with what happened and whats required to be the leader of a nation, and the hard choices that come with it.

    So being offered it and rejecting it because she knows her path and it's not to be the BP (as it would never be permanent) would of been better for her overall and allowed for a realist and obtainable position that could be the second highest position behind King and BP
    She did talk to Tchalla. It was her first kill, she cried in Bad Mutha. The Paris Hilton thing was Mayberry and hes only slightly above Coates with depictions.

    How would they know if they dont have the characteristics if they dont try and fail?

  12. #9837
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Yea, I think a cast of 5 is sufficiently small enough that you can put the majority of the focus on Shuri while still having space to give 4 other characters development. You could theoretically do that with a cast of 6 though, it just comes down to how good a writer is at balancing characters and subplots without compromising Shuri's paneltime.

    I agree they could go the love triangle route. I'm personally not a fan of it in the books I read but if it were a title geared towards the YA crowd that might work. I'm a little weary of Shuri with a mutant though, ngl. Maybe Muti eventually picks Asha and Shuri has to find someone else or something? And agreed, QDJ would be tied with Shuri for best martial artist, maybe give her some unique short-spears and her own vibranium exoskeleton?



    Should she though? Not every Wakandan wants to be BP, only a couple actually compete in Challenge Day. Similar to the States, most kids probably muse about being the leader of the nation, but by the time they're able adults they've found new passions and goals. As Redjack stated, Wakanda isn't Sparta.

    Every Wakandan can fight in the name of their kingdom but that doesn't mean everyone wants to rule or be a badass warrior. Shuri's in a place where she should absolutely be trained, as in the event T'Challa dies she should have the skills to take the throne in his place. But in-universe she should have enough maturity to recognize she should focus on other things and stop challenging her brother. Same goes for those in T'Challa's circle.
    I don't think that reasonable. Having a character who has the ability to be BP not trying to just because someone is already in the position is bad character development. It makes her seem to have low self esteem.

    As Kanye would say in one of his songs before he went crazy, "I'll just stay down here and do hair".
    Last edited by Cville; 11-30-2020 at 04:48 PM.

  13. #9838
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    But within universe, she should want to be be BP. So should Wkabi, Zuri, Hunter and every other Wakandan. That doesn't mean it's the only thing they do, but they should be studying and training for the next challenge day.
    Difference is that they already know they aren't suitable to be BP and they all have their established lanes and roles. Shuri literally did nothing, no development or anything and when T'Challa was of World doing superhero isht she had to be egged on to take on leadership roles being told she the princess regent and to do something because she didn't know what to do when T'Challa wasn't around... This is not leadership qualities. She should of been working towards something more, or we should of been shown she has an aptitude for... Something. Which we don't get until Mayberry creates P.R.I.D.E and he frakked up her whole mini with a the isht he did. Point is, again the reason behind Shuri made sense fro. What Hudlin said. He wanted a female character for his daughter look up to, unfortunately, he didn't take Shuri further in the development phase at all

  14. #9839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    I don't think that reasonable. Having a character who has the ability to be BP not trying to just because someone is already in the position is bad character development. It makes her seem to have low self esteem.

    As Kanye would say in one of his songs before he went crazy, "I'll just stay down here and do hair".
    Shuri does not have the ability to be Black Panther unless T'Challa is dead or otherwise incapacitated. The audience knows this, the stories have more less shown this, and so the narrative needs to be bent to reflect this fact. In the wake of her resurrection Shuri should develop new passions and different perspectives on how to strengthen her nation that remove her desire to be Black Panther. Character development and compartmentalization, which is how you build a good supporting character lol.

    From there, we as an audience can grow invested in her new role (Griot, leader of the PRIDE, whatever) and allow her to grow into her own character and franchise. There was a time when Dick Grayson wanted to be Batman. But that's not a sustainable status quo for a character nor is it useful in building the overarching Bat brand. So the editors had him evolve in his role as Robin and leader of the Titans until he eventually became Nightwing and did his own thing. We've seen that for many a Bat character and we absolutely should see it with Shuri. It's not low self-esteem to leave behind old dreams in favor of new ones. That's a fact of life and it can be a beautiful thing.

  15. #9840
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Shuri does not have the ability to be Black Panther unless T'Challa is dead or otherwise incapacitated. The audience knows this, the stories have more less shown this, and so the narrative needs to be bent to reflect this fact. In the wake of her resurrection Shuri should develop new passions and different perspectives on how to strengthen her nation that remove her desire to be Black Panther. Character development and compartmentalization, which is how you build a good supporting character lol.

    From there, we as an audience can grow invested in her new role (Griot, leader of the PRIDE, whatever) and allow her to grow into her own character and franchise. There was a time when Dick Grayson wanted to be Batman. But that's not a sustainable status quo for a character nor is it useful in building the overarching Bat brand. So the editors had him evolve in his role as Robin and leader of the Titans until he eventually became Nightwing and did his own thing. We've seen that for many a Bat character and we absolutely should see it with Shuri. It's not low self-esteem to leave behind old dreams in favor of new ones. That's a fact of life and it can be a beautiful thing.
    How do you know? They've never fought each other.

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