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  1. #9856
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I'm getting SWaD vibes form you Redjack.
    What happens when you invade Wakanda?

  2. #9857
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    He made her BP. I'd say that a pretty significant development.
    No... It's not. Shuri was practically absent the entirety of Hudlins run until vol 5, and in that run she was STILL rejected by Bast. Again, I Love what Hudlin did for the mythos and BP as a whole.

    Like Priest, Hudlin was monumental in bringing T'Challa to the big stage and getting him on the map. However, like Priest and Ross, Hudlin didn't do any favors to the mythos with his use of Shuri. Priest over used Ross and Hudlin underused Shuri. She did not get even close to enough development to warrant a satisfying transition into BP.

    I would argue that, If she rejected the mantle when T'Challa came back that would of been an even bigger and better character development than her taking it. Because her whole deal since creation was wanting to be BP and feeling cheated, and had she rejected it at that point, realizing she doesn't have to be in her brothers Shadow and carving her own way.

    It would of had a bigger impact then what we got, which was constant comparison to T'Challa, and painfully clear she was inferior to T'Challa on every way and to the point that T'Challa was still referred to as the Black Panther despite him not holding the mantle anymore

  3. #9858
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    What happens when you invade Wakanda?
    You die!!!!!

  4. #9859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I'd say that Shuri was far more hardline and maybe traditionalist than T'Challa. A lot more impetuous too.
    She had the same stoic demeanor and had a slightly harsher tone with foreigners. It wasn't a huge distinction lol. I guess it made her into a slightly more adversarial character (like in Daredevil and Defenders) but for the most part she was just a more xenophobic version of T'Challa. Which funny enough makes her less distinct now that she's back to being a supporting character.

  5. #9860
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    What is with you guys and the "with boobs" angel. Are ya'll threatened that shes a woman.
    ??? What? Are you seriously trying to pull that angle? Come on brother cville you should know better. She was literally a female version of T'Challa but inferior I. Every way. What we have been saying this whole time is that was a problem, and she should of been developed into something that she can call her own and be treated with the same opportunity as Dick grayson, another supporting character who took the mantle of the title character and it was never EVER going to last but was able to carve their own space and become their own hero to expand the mythos they originated from

  6. #9861
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    No... It's not. Shuri was practically absent the entirety of Hudlins run until vol 5, and in that run she was STILL rejected by Bast. Again, I Love what Hudlin did for the mythos and BP as a whole.

    Like Priest, Hudlin was monumental in bringing T'Challa to the big stage and getting him on the map. However, like Priest and Ross, Hudlin didn't do any favors to the mythos with his use of Shuri. Priest over used Ross and Hudlin underused Shuri. She did not get even close to enough development to warrant a satisfying transition into BP.

    I would argue that, If she rejected the mantle when T'Challa came back that would of been an even bigger and better character development than her taking it. Because her whole deal since creation was wanting to be BP and feeling cheated, and had she rejected it at that point, realizing she doesn't have to be in her brothers Shadow and carving her own way.

    It would of had a bigger impact then what we got, which was constant comparison to T'Challa, and painfully clear she was inferior to T'Challa on every way and to the point that T'Challa was still referred to as the Black Panther despite him not holding the mantle anymore
    That was David Liss' mistake. He should have given him a different code name and costume when he went to hells kitchen. He was literally playing super hero, that would have been the time to bust out Coal Tiger.

  7. #9862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    ??? What? Are you seriously trying to pull that angle? Come on brother cville you should know better. She was literally a female version of T'Challa but inferior I. Every way. What we have been saying this whole time is that was a problem, and she should of been developed into something that she can call her own and be treated with the same opportunity as Dick grayson, another supporting character who took the mantle of the title character and it was never EVER going to last but was able to carve their own space and become their own hero to expand the mythos they originated from
    Pretty sure Cville's joking with us Ezyo lol. It's not personal

  8. #9863
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    ??? What? Are you seriously trying to pull that angle? Come on brother cville you should know better. She was literally a female version of T'Challa but inferior I. Every way. What we have been saying this whole time is that was a problem, and she should of been developed into something that she can call her own and be treated with the same opportunity as Dick grayson, another supporting character who took the mantle of the title character and it was never EVER going to last but was able to carve their own space and become their own hero to expand the mythos they originated from
    Calling here "Tchalla with boobs", but then saying shes inferior in every way kinda reinforces my assumption. Becuase if shes "Tchalla" with boobs, that would imply their have equal standing, but pointing out shes inferior makes that statement appear as a slight.

  9. #9864
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Pretty sure Cville's joking with us Ezyo lol. It's not personal
    I'm not.

    10char

  10. #9865
    Astonishing Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    You die!!!!!
    well, okay, then. you do the math.

  11. #9866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    I'm not.

    10char
    That's unfortunate, I thought you would think better of us lol.

    T'Challa with boobs is a slight. We already had T'Challa, Shuri more often than not was just him but female and less skilled, so why did we get that instead of a more original character? Why did T'Challa take a backseat in his own franchise just to have a virtual clone running around? I've said before I didn't have an issue with Shuri becoming BP, I had an issue with her becoming the type of BP that she did.

    Ideally, she would've never taken the role but if she had to, I would've been much more accepting of it and the current state of her character if there was a stronger and more unique concept from the beginning. The only thing new Shuri added to the mythos was her being the female equivalent of T'Challa and unlike some, I don't consider that an accomplishment.

    I think it's cannibalizing the strongest black mythos in comics for brownie points. So yea, T'Challa with boobs, Hudlin could've done better and enough has been added to her character since then that she can be. If Shuri were white I'd say T'Challa with pale skin, if she were a black male I'd highlight whatever arbitrary characteristic made them distinct from T'Challa. Unoriginal concepts deserve to be called out. No matter the gender, race, sexuality, etc.
    Last edited by chief12d; 11-30-2020 at 06:04 PM.

  12. #9867
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    I like Muti, I don't like that he's a mutant because of the potential for nonsense that can be done with his character lol. So if they brought in someone else after him and Shuri have a falling out that'd be great. Flea would be funny, he had some good lines iirc in Shuri's BP book.

    QDJ with a laser shooting mambele would be interesting lol.
    Retcon then lol they were mistaken, he isn't a mutant but a vibranium mutate like vibraxas and they do d out I. The story lol problem solved. But again Flea is the other option.

    I just want an interesting weapon, and frankly I am 1000% over spears. Okoye should be the only one with a spear everyone.

    Hell I would be cool with her being like cloud strife in Advent children and having her weapon being able to expand into multiple weapons or having her weapon being able to turn into whatever bladed weapon she wants at a simple thought. That would allow her to contrast Shuri who's more ranged with her blasters


    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    What happens when you invade Wakanda?
    Seriously man get the damn Solo please!

  13. #9868
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    That's unfortunate, I thought you would think better of us lol.

    T'Challa with boobs is a slight. We already had T'Challa, Shuri more often than not was just him but female and less skilled, so why did we get that instead of a more original character? Why did T'Challa take a backseat in his own franchise just to have a virtual clone running around? I've said before I didn't have an issue with Shuri becoming BP, I had an issue with her becoming the type of BP that she did.

    Ideally, she would've never taken the role but if she had to, I would've been much more accepting of it and the current state of her character if there was a stronger and more unique concept from the beginning. The only thing new Shuri added to the mythos was her being the female equivalent of T'Challa and unlike some, I don't consider that an accomplishment.

    I think it's cannibalizing the strongest black mythos in comics for brownie points. So yea, T'Challa with boobs, Hudlin could've done better and enough has been added to her character since then that she can be. If Shuri were white I'd say T'Challa with pale skin, if she were a black male I'd highlight whatever arbitrary characteristic made them distinct from T'Challa. Unoriginal concepts deserve to be called out or we keep getting them. No matter the gender, race, sexuality, etc.
    But if shes equivalent, than the only reason not to accept her is because she's female? Or are you saying Tchalla is not that impressive either?

  14. #9869
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    That was David Liss' mistake. He should have given him a different code name and costume when he went to hells kitchen. He was literally playing super hero, that would have been the time to bust out Coal Tiger.
    Except everyone called him that. Even in DW which followed vol 5 before liss. Literary everyone

  15. #9870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    But if shes equivalent, than the only reason not to accept her is because she's female? Or are you saying Tchalla is not that impressive either?
    To be clear, I do accept Shuri. She exists and I appreciate several takes on her, like Redjack's version and the MCU's. I even liked her in the little we saw of her in Hudlin's run. Her time as BP and the time in the comics since has been my issue with the character.

    Her being equivalent does not mean she's the same. As I said, she was effectively T'Challa but less skilled and female. She was a reskinned version of him and that's not good, no matter what gender, race, sexuality she was. IMO she lacked enough distinction in personality and skillset to be a compelling alternative to T'Challa.
    Last edited by chief12d; 11-30-2020 at 06:15 PM.

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