Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Marvell2100]

It's interesting (though not surprising) that most of the major Youtube channels and comic culture websites are pushing the replace T'Challa with Shuri direction. But I've seen over the last few days sentiment changing towards a recast, especially on Reddit and social media.

Granted, these aren't good measures of what your average fan/viewer would want, but they are an indicator on some level. I think that this is a delicate issue that requires time. If in one week recasting has gone from a non-option to something championed by 10-20% of the fandom then if Marvel gives itself an extra year or two it could be something received with only a bit of controversy.

Yeah, Marvel doesn't need to rush the decision. Let some time pass and emotions die down.

[DigiCom]

3. Upgrade and introduce villains both old and new. With the success of the first film, it would be irresponsible to not use villains like Klaw, Killmonger, and M'Baku, but they need upgrades to their personalities, backstories, worldviews, powers, interactions with T'Challa. Revamp them along with groups like the Originators, the People, the Collectors, Moses Magnum, Achebe, and more. Straight up retcon backgrounds if a writer has to, just make them almost as complex as T'Challa while keeping their threat level up. Have T'Challa lose to some of them initially before winning. Have them slaughter C-D list villains by the groups to establish their threat. Give them well defined roles and status quos and BS a way for them to not die so they don't stay on ice for a decade.

I have to disagree with the highlighted. The more the franchise revisits old material, the less likely it is to succeed. I'd rather see new villains.

[XPac]

I have to disagree with the highlighted. The more the franchise revisits old material, the less likely it is to succeed. I'd rather see new villains.

I think Killmonger actually has the potential to be a break away character. He's reasonably well known and liked due to the movie. It wouldn't take much to transer some of that sucess onto the comics. I think to NOT push Killmonger hard would be a mistake IMO.

[Ezyo1000]

Lots of good ideas out there. Personally I would say the most important members of the support cast would like to have a strong presence would be: Okoye his ride or die chick, Shuri, L.i and w'kabi back again and well. He needs a solid group, not all of them will be in every issue, but they will have agency and defined personality. but most of all, they are there to support and prop up T'Challa first and foremost

[Ezyo1000]

It's interesting (though not surprising) that most of the major Youtube channels and comic culture websites are pushing the replace T'Challa with Shuri direction. But I've seen over the last few days sentiment changing towards a recast, especially on Reddit and social media.

Granted, these aren't good measures of what your average fan/viewer would want, but they are an indicator on some level. I think that this is a delicate issue that requires time. If in one week recasting has gone from a non-option to something championed by 10-20% of the fandom then if Marvel gives itself an extra year or two it could be something received with only a bit of controversy.

Here's something to think about with Shuri replacing T'Challa. Say she does. Marvel has her do a trilogy or whatever and be on the avengers movies. Year later when it comes time to reboot, these same people who were clamoring for Chadwick to lose the mantle the day the movie dropped and then again even harder the DAY Chadwick frakking passed. Will then start claiming that they are used to Shuri being BP and it would be weird to have T'Challa have the mantle when she's been BP for all this time, then they will claim Marvel is being misogynistic for 'replacing their premier Black female hero with a male' and act as though it is her franchise casually forgetting that T'Challa has been BP for 50+ years while Shuri held the title for barely 6 years. I guarantee you that they will play that card and essentially try and have her take over the mythos and claim it as no one can replace her and it would be dishonoring her legacy. Becislets be real, no matter how much time passes the person to play T'Challa going forward will always be compared to Chadwick and he is going to be the goat for a looking time. But that's okay, people can continue his hard work and honor his legacy. But recasting is the best option. His story deserves the same treatment to finish his arc as Tony and Cap did

[DigiCom]

I think Killmonger actually has the potential to be a break away character. He's reasonably well known and liked due to the movie. It wouldn't take much to transer some of that sucess onto the comics. I think to NOT push Killmonger hard would be a mistake IMO.

They tried that, with BOTH Killmonger & Shuri. Nobody bought those minis.

Let me be blunt: Movie Synergy Doesn't Work

Marvel keeps trying, and it keeps failing. If you want to get readers to buy the next run, and KEEP buying it, you have to focus on telling the best stories you can, not try to appeal to fans of what will then be a 3-year-old movie. Especially when those fans didn't turn up for the comics when the movie was out.

[Ezyo1000]

I have to disagree with the highlighted. The more the franchise revisits old material, the less likely it is to succeed. I'd rather see new villains.

Well... I mean... Tetu and Zenzi... They had potential but look where they ended up

[XPac]

They tried that, with BOTH Killmonger & Shuri. Nobody bought those minis.

Let me be blunt: Movie Synergy Doesn't Work

Marvel keeps trying, and it keeps failing. If you want to get readers to buy the next run, and KEEP buying it, you have to focus on telling the best stories you can, not try to appeal to fans of what will then be a 3-year-old movie. Especially when those fans didn't turn up for the comics when the movie was out.

There's no reason you can't do both. You can tell the best stories you can with both Killmonger and Shuri.

[DigiCom]

There's no reason you can't do both. You can tell the best stories you can with both Killmonger and Shuri.

And then what? Drag out Kang, maybe Man-Ape. Have some Wakandans rebel?

And then leave the book for the next writer do do the same damn thing again?

[chief12d]

I have to disagree with the highlighted. The more the franchise revisits old material, the less likely it is to succeed. I'd rather see new villains.

I don't look at it as revisiting old material so much as it is reinventing it from the ground up. If all a writer has to offer with Killmonger is another foreign backed coup then they don't need to be on a BP book. But (to get back to Ezyo's question) if they wanted to say revamp his motivations, give him a wife and son, and have him rule Niganda as their Captain America meets Silver Sable, I'd be all for it.

Instead of another basic Klaw tries to invade Wakanda, if a writer started giving him omega-level feats and a global criminal empire with organizations like the Hyena Clan and Collectors in his pocket that's a story I can get behind. It's about leveling up the villains with the most notoriety and establishing new sustainable status quos for them that'll lend to better conflicts. New villains without doubt have a place. For better or worse Coates gave us some like the Originators and the People who with enough retcons and personnel changes could be great domestic/global threats.

And I'd like to see more beyond that. But T'Challa has decades old villains that have a certain amount of stock among the readership and could easily be revamped. They're the ones most likely to appear in adaptations for video games and live action so it'd be a mistake not to give them new material and epic storylines. In a 40 issue BP there's nothing wrong with having an 6 issue M'Baku redemption or 8 issue Klaw becoming the Kingpin of Europe arc. There's plenty of space for new and old villains.

[chief12d]

Lots of good ideas out there. Personally I would say the most important members of the support cast would like to have a strong presence would be: Okoye his ride or die chick, Shuri, L.i and w'kabi back again and well. He needs a solid group, not all of them will be in every issue, but they will have agency and defined personality. but most of all, they are there to support and prop up T'Challa first and foremost

Yea, a core supporting cast for T'Challa I'd like to see:
- Monica Lynne, revamped as a top NGO representative on the brink of a musical comeback tour and with new vibranium mutate powers (the love interest but I'd have Nakia be the primary romantic foil, with Zanda being a close third)
-Shuri, director of the Wakandan Design Group and leader of the PRIDE, a mobile research task force responsible for responding to high tech AND paranormal phenomena
- Okoye, head bodyguard of the Dora still loyal to the crown and T'Challa's staunchest supporter, even if she disagrees with his actions
- Kaspar Cole, the Cole Tiger, the top War Dog located outside Wakanda's borders and the chief of intelligence gathering operations overseas, like a younger brother to T'Challa and a romantic option for Okoye

Well... I mean... Tetu and Zenzi... They had potential but look where they ended up

That's the thing. Introducing new villains is essential because even if they don't work in their first appearance or two a writer can come along and breath new life into them. I think that courtesy needs to be extended to T'Challa's OG villains. Killmonger is particular has breakout potential with a bold enough direction while M'Baku should've been pushed into an anti-heroic route years ago (as the MCU seems to be doing). So I respect new attempts at villains but would really like to see future writers do innovative stories with older rogues.

[XPac]

And then what? Drag out Kang, maybe Man-Ape. Have some Wakandans rebel?

And then leave the book for the next writer do do the same damn thing again?

Rebellions can just as easily happen with a new villain as an old one. If that's the sort of story the next writer wants to tell, he'll tell it whether it's with Killmonger or someone else.

Heroes (not just Black Panther) have re-occuring rogues. Superman, Spider-Man, and Batman have had dozens for deacdes and it hasn't really hindered their ability to suceed.

[Ekie]

As time goes on, whatever Coogler decides to do will be less controversial either way. Emotions will die down.

That said, there will still be complaints either way. Which in a way is liberating... if people are going to complain no matter what you do, then trying to make everyone happy is ultimately futile. Coogler can just do whatever the heck he wants, and the people aren't as open to whatever he decides to do can just learn to live with it. The vast majority of people I think will be okay with it either way, because either way we'll likely get a cool movie out of it.

That's not true. If they decide to kill t'challa then that won't go over well ever. Wakanda is his story. had coogler done a better job with the titular character specifically then we wouldn't even be having this discussion so no I don't have full faith in him. I'm not looking for an interesting movie I'm looking for a Black Panther movie. And that involves t'challa aka the Black Panther.
what you suggest is that Coogler can just put out a feel-good black movie and everyone's going to show up like it's a Tyler Perry flick.
Until they start doing that with popular White characters everyone can miss me with that bull. Trying to make wakanda as a whole the main character of this franchise won't be healthy for the longevity of it.

[Ekie]

Here's something to think about with Shuri replacing T'Challa. Say she does. Marvel has her do a trilogy or whatever and be on the avengers movies. Year later when it comes time to reboot, these same people who were clamoring for Chadwick to lose the mantle the day the movie dropped and then again even harder the DAY Chadwick frakking passed. Will then start claiming that they are used to Shuri being BP and it would be weird to have T'Challa have the mantle when she's been BP for all this time, then they will claim Marvel is being misogynistic for 'replacing their premier Black female hero with a male' and act as though it is her franchise casually forgetting that T'Challa has been BP for 50+ years while Shuri held the title for barely 6 years. I guarantee you that they will play that card and essentially try and have her take over the mythos and claim it as no one can replace her and it would be dishonoring her legacy. Becislets be real, no matter how much time passes the person to play T'Challa going forward will always be compared to Chadwick and he is going to be the goat for a looking time. But that's okay, people can continue his hard work and honor his legacy. But recasting is the best option. His story deserves the same treatment to finish his arc as Tony and Cap did

Which subsequently will lead to his replacement in all other forms of media for the sake of synergy with the MCU/Disney. All after having just one solo movie to tell his stories.
There is nothing good about the idea of Marvel murdering it's one popular fictional black lead character. The very idea of it should be fought against vigorously by us. Black heros have to die while the white ones get recast over and over? No. It's an offensive idea.

[XPac]

That's not true. If they decide to kill t'challa then that won't go over well ever. Wakanda is his story. had coogler done a better job with the titular character specifically then we wouldn't even be having this discussion so no I don't have full faith in him. I'm not looking for an interesting movie I'm looking for a Black Panther movie. And that involves t'challa aka the Black Panther.
what you suggest is that Coogler can just put out a feel-good black movie and everyone's going to show up like it's a Tyler Perry flick.
Until they start doing that with popular White characters everyone can miss me with that bull. Trying to make wakanda as a whole the main character of this franchise won't be healthy for the longevity of it.

Sure, SOME people will be upset no matter what Coogler does. Again, he'll get complaints no matter what he does.

I don't know about the Tyler Perry flick part... but I am suggesting that Coogler can put out a BP movie which will be both criticially and commercially sucessful. He's done it before, and Feige has done it a couple dozen times. I think they have both earned enough the benefit of the doubt from at least the majority of the fanbase to the point where they will support whatever Coogler feels is best in the end.