Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Blind Wedjat]

First of all, people can still be underestimated despite everyone knowing what they're capable of. It's called having an ego and being a dumbass. Or even failing to think how the person in question would think. It's not out of the question.

Second, if I were Killmonger, why would I try beating T'Challa by punching him in his suit? He's not stupid. Twice Killmonger has forced T'Challa into ritual combat to either get T'Challa out of his suit or to use enhanced weaponry to his advantage.

Third, the seems to be an overestimation of what the kinetic energy suit can do, as well as suggesting that it is more durable than the old vibranium weave because of its unique property. Vibranium is an energy absorbing metal. It's not just really hard like titanium, diamond or the fictional adamantium. T'Challa's old weave suit technically does the same thing as his new one by absorbing and storing kinetic energy. According to the Marvel Wikia:

Wakandan Vibranium absorbs vibratory or kinetic energy in its vicinity within itself... As a result, a chunk of Vibranium which had absorbed a considerable amount of vibratory energy would be exceedingly hard to demolish. If enough force were applied to this chunk to smash it, the Vibranium would explode, releasing much of the absorbed energy.

I don't remember T'Challa's suit ever working this way but we can assume this is the guiding principle behind both suits and what occurred in events such as Iron Fist destroying the suit with multiple chi enhanced strikes.

The kinetic energy suit doesn't allow T'Challa to suddenly take more damage. It allows him to deal more damage at once from what he's received. This doesn't mean T'Challa needs to start purposely taking hits from Class 100 characters just so he can use that ability. A well placed hit can still knock him out or cause injury. Wearing a Vibranium, skintight cat suit won't stop you from breaking a bone.

Third, with all of this in mind T'Challa needs a Venom type character that can specifically counter his suit and it's abilities. Venom works as a Spider-Man villain because he can bypass Peter Parker's Spider-Sense. I've advocated for this to be Killmonger sporting Anti-Metal weapons that can degrade and destabilise the vibranium suit, so they can pierce through. The rest of his rogues gallery need to be smarter and stronger too.

[DigiCom]

Rising from the Duat to make this note:

Black Panther makes it's broadcast debut tonight at 8 PM Eastern on TNT.

Yo, Anpu! Open up the Western Gate!

[XPac]

First of all, people can still be underestimated despite everyone knowing what they're capable of. It's called having an ego and being a dumbass. Or even failing to think how the person in question would think. It's not out of the question.

Second, if I were Killmonger, why would I try beating T'Challa by punching him in his suit? He's not stupid. Twice Killmonger has forced T'Challa into ritual combat to either get T'Challa out of his suit or to use enhanced weaponry to his advantage.

Third, the seems to be an overestimation of what the kinetic energy suit can do, as well as suggesting that it is more durable than the old vibranium weave because of its unique property. Vibranium is an energy absorbing metal. It's not just really hard like titanium, diamond or the fictional adamantium. T'Challa's old weave suit technically does the same thing as his new one by absorbing and storing kinetic energy. According to the Marvel Wikia:



I don't remember T'Challa's suit ever working this way but we can assume this is the guiding principle behind both suits and what occurred in events such as Iron Fist destroying the suit with multiple chi enhanced strikes.

The kinetic energy suit doesn't allow T'Challa to suddenly take more damage. It allows him to deal more damage at once from what he's received. This doesn't mean T'Challa needs to start purposely taking hits from Class 100 characters just so he can use that ability. A well placed hit can still knock him out or cause injury. Wearing a Vibranium, skintight cat suit won't stop you from breaking a bone.

Third, with all of this in mind T'Challa needs a Venom type character that can specifically counter his suit and it's abilities. Venom works as a Spider-Man villain because he can bypass Peter Parker's Spider-Sense. I've advocated for this to be Killmonger sporting Anti-Metal weapons that can degrade and destabilise the vibranium suit, so they can pierce through. The rest of his rogues gallery need to be smarter and stronger too.

Having an ego or being a dumb @$$ is basically what I meant when I said it's writing the characters stupid. YES, character induced stupidity can allow a lot of things to happen. For better or for worse, comics work that way.

Why would Killmonger try beating him by punching? Well, in part because it seems to work pretty well. Not that there isn't more to his plans than just that, but clearly he is capable of engaging Black Panther in hand to hand combat. As have many other street level characters over the years.

And if the vibranium suit allows him to take shots from Namor without taking any damage, the it allows him to take more damage.

Ultimately that's the discrepancy. A Red Skull dominate him in a fight when he's wearing the suit, but he can still tank blows from Namor. Basically the suit works about as well as needed for the the story. Or he has multiple suits and not all of them have the same properites... that works too. It's my headcanon to deal with the retcon from Rise that he's had the force push abilities all along.

[MindofShadow]

And that's where the problem lies: T'Challa is bogged down by writers that put him in mundane situations and uncreatively resolve these situations with technology, which makes it seem as if he's relying too much on technology.

I've said so many times that tactician T'Challa will always be superior to inventor T'Challa. I don't know why some want that side so bad. You can literally emphasize how smart T'Challa is by showing how he uses advanced tech in creative ways. But that's too much to ask for I guess.

A smart character is only as smart as the writer.

Tech feats are easy. Hence why uninspired, non comic writers with limited science fiction brains go to it much. Writing tech asspulls is something a child can do.

[Vibranium Weave]

A smart character is only as smart as the writer.

Tech feats are easy. Hence why uninspired, non comic writers with limited science fiction brains go to it much. Writing tech asspulls is something a child can do.

Taking away T'Challa's standard gear will not resolve the issue of poor writing. No matter what, T'Challa needs a good writer.

[Vibranium Weave]

First of all, people can still be underestimated despite everyone knowing what they're capable of. It's called having an ego and being a dumbass. Or even failing to think how the person in question would think. It's not out of the question.

Second, if I were Killmonger, why would I try beating T'Challa by punching him in his suit? He's not stupid. Twice Killmonger has forced T'Challa into ritual combat to either get T'Challa out of his suit or to use enhanced weaponry to his advantage.

Third, the seems to be an overestimation of what the kinetic energy suit can do, as well as suggesting that it is more durable than the old vibranium weave because of its unique property. Vibranium is an energy absorbing metal. It's not just really hard like titanium, diamond or the fictional adamantium. T'Challa's old weave suit technically does the same thing as his new one by absorbing and storing kinetic energy. According to the Marvel Wikia:



I don't remember T'Challa's suit ever working this way but we can assume this is the guiding principle behind both suits and what occurred in events such as Iron Fist destroying the suit with multiple chi enhanced strikes.

The kinetic energy suit doesn't allow T'Challa to suddenly take more damage. It allows him to deal more damage at once from what he's received. This doesn't mean T'Challa needs to start purposely taking hits from Class 100 characters just so he can use that ability. A well placed hit can still knock him out or cause injury. Wearing a Vibranium, skintight cat suit won't stop you from breaking a bone.

Third, with all of this in mind T'Challa needs a Venom type character that can specifically counter his suit and it's abilities. Venom works as a Spider-Man villain because he can bypass Peter Parker's Spider-Sense. I've advocated for this to be Killmonger sporting Anti-Metal weapons that can degrade and destabilise the vibranium suit, so they can pierce through. The rest of his rogues gallery need to be smarter and stronger too.

Agree 100% with the stuff in BOLD. Keep dropping gems of knowledge.

[Ezyo1000]

A smart character is only as smart as the writer.

Tech feats are easy. Hence why uninspired, non comic writers with limited science fiction brains go to it much. Writing tech asspulls is something a child can do.

Hence why I don't understand this mindset of if he has less tech he will somehow be written better. We have seen over the years that uninspired writers will stay uninspired and do lazy or stupid ass isht because they don't care. And the Force push doesn't make the vibranium weave able to tank more damage. The excuse keeps getting thrown around that Erik and namor can hit the habit and tchalla feels it.. this was the case from Priest all the way up till now. The force push simply is a way to make a stronger counter attack (among other creative things of the writer is smart) it doesn't mean he can suddenly go blow for blow against namor

[XPac]

Hence why I don't understand this mindset of if he has less tech he will somehow be written better. We have seen over the years that uninspired writers will stay uninspired and do lazy or stupid ass isht because they don't care. And the Force push doesn't make the vibranium weave able to tank more damage. The excuse keeps getting thrown around that Erik and namor can hit the habit and tchalla feels it.. this was the case from Priest all the way up till now. The force push simply is a way to make a stronger counter attack (among other creative things of the writer is smart) it doesn't mean he can suddenly go blow for blow against namor

Writing is completely an independent issue from the amount of tech he has.

I think the idea is simply more that some prefer the character more streamlined and less reliant on tech as a matter of preference. Priests book went out of its way send the message that T'Challa could create armor for himself if he wanted to, but didn't because he didn't need it. The later runs obviously felt differently... but I personally liked Priests approach. He had a standard toolset which was very versatile... but the tech never did the fighting for him, and he never really needed to pull tech out of thin air to get the job done.

Which isn't to say objectively speaking that going the Iron Man route doesn't make perfect sense... it does. It's simply that I prefer Priests take on the matter.

But as far as the level of protection the suit provides... if he can "feel" a blow from Killmonger, then a blow from Namor should flat out kill him. Comics don't work that way of course, but that's how it should work given the differnce in power. Getting hit with 100 times the force plus shouldn't achieve comparatively speaking the same result. But again, this issue resolves itself by comics simply having the suit work to the degree it needs to work for the story. Head cannon can excuse it with different suits if need be.

[Ezyo1000]

Writing is completely an independent issue from the amount of tech he has.

I think the idea is simply more that some prefer the character more streamlined and less reliant on tech as a matter of preference. Priests book went out of its way send the message that T'Challa could create armor for himself if he wanted to, but didn't because he didn't need it. The later runs obviously felt differently... but I personally liked Priests approach. He had a standard toolset which was very versatile... but the tech never did the fighting for him, and he never really needed to pull tech out of thin air to get the job done.

Which isn't to say objectively speaking that going the Iron Man route doesn't make perfect sense... it does. It's simply that I prefer Priests take on the matter.

But as far as the level of protection the suit provides... if he can "feel" a blow from Killmonger, then a blow from Namor should flat out kill him. Comics don't work that way of course, but that's how it should work given the differnce in power. Getting hit with 100 times the force plus shouldn't achieve comparatively speaking the same result. But again, this issue resolves itself by comics simply having the suit work to the degree it needs to work for the story. Head cannon can excuse it with different suits if need be.

No it's definitely not. Writing has a huge impact on the amount of tech. Priest had T'Challa use claws, daggers, microweave, kimoyo and energy damp boots. Hickman had T'Challa use, energy gauntlets, microweave, daggers, claws, grenades, light shield, and teleport tech. However, Hickman had him using that stuff more then Priest did. And it was lazy, however, Evan has had T'Challa use claws daggers weave, kimoyo, Force push, strength booster tech as well as experimental new habit. But he didn't use it that much. Coates has force push, claws, daggers, kimoyo, the spear.
Hudlin had the daggers, claws, microweave kimoyo and armors. Notice how Coates and Hudlin had T'Challa using the least amount of tech, however look how reliant T'Challa was in tech under Coates as compared to Hudlin. Uninspired writers will stay uninspired regardless of how Much or little tech they give him.

Really the over reliance on tech has been form Hickman and Coates abd to a lesser extent JA, but JA has been using it more as supplemental. And tchallas tech has been streamlined. The force push should be simply supplemental tech that give him an additional edge when fighting opponents. By it's design it's is not to be used to make him a punching bag. That is absolutely ridiculous and completely stupid to allow yourself to be hit. And even then the Force push isn't the Ironman route. Hudlins armor would be more akin to that and it is fine every once and a while to use it just for creative purposes.

And again in priest run, Which you prefer, he took hits from namor , hulk IF, Erik, and kraven. The weave protected him. It did it's job. Force push wouldn't suddenly make him tank harder hits. It simply makes his counter attacks stronger. Its extremely simple

[XPac]

No it's definitely not. Writing has a huge impact on the amount of tech. Priest had T'Challa use claws, daggers, microweave, kimoyo and energy damp boots. Hickman had T'Challa use, energy gauntlets, microweave, daggers, claws, grenades, light shield, and teleport tech. However, Hickman had him using that stuff more then Priest did. And it was lazy, however, Evan has had T'Challa use claws daggers weave, kimoyo, Force push, strength booster tech as well as experimental new habit. But he didn't use it that much. Coates has force push, claws, daggers, kimoyo, the spear.
Hudlin had the daggers, claws, microweave kimoyo and armors. Notice how Coates and Hudlin had T'Challa using the least amount of tech, however look how reliant T'Challa was in tech under Coates as compared to Hudlin. Uninspired writers will stay uninspired regardless of how Much or little tech they give him.

Really the over reliance on tech has been form Hickman and Coates abd to a lesser extent JA, but JA has been using it more as supplemental. And tchallas tech has been streamlined. The force push should be simply supplemental tech that give him an additional edge when fighting opponents. By it's design it's is not to be used to make him a punching bag. That is absolutely ridiculous and completely stupid to allow yourself to be hit. And even then the Force push isn't the Ironman route. Hudlins armor would be more akin to that and it is fine every once and a while to use it just for creative purposes.

And again in priest run, Which you prefer, he took hits from namor , hulk IF, Erik, and kraven. The weave protected him. It did it's job. Force push wouldn't suddenly make him tank harder hits. It simply makes his counter attacks stronger. Its extremely simple

Let me clarify... how GOOD the writing is is independent of how much tech he has. A good story can have him with a lot or a little. There's no coorelation between the quality of the writing and the amount of tech he has.

And if T'Challa, with or without the Force Push, can take shots from the Hulk then Eric and Kraven shouldn't be able to do jack to him. But they can, because again that's how comics work. So it's only an issue in theory, not practice. His gear will be as effective as it needs to be. I'd prefer a bit more internal logic to all of it, but it is what it is.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Let me clarify... how GOOD the writing is is independent of how much tech he has. A good story can have him with a lot or a little. There's no coorelation between the quality of the writing and the amount of tech he has.

And if T'Challa, with or without the Force Push, can take shots from the Hulk then Eric and Kraven shouldn't be able to do jack to him. But they can, because again that's how comics work. So it's only an issue in theory, not practice. His gear will be as effective as it needs to be. I'd prefer a bit more internal logic to all of it, but it is what it is.

There was a rational to it under Priest.

Kraven's knives got through the micro-weave fibers, and Killmonger, along with Acebe, knew of the suit and planned accordingly.

Priest introduced the suit, but I think people overlook how often people got through it. Because they were smart enough to know that they needed to.

Panther should be fighting guys smart enough to know the threat he represents and plan accordingly.

[Ezyo1000]

Let me clarify... how GOOD the writing is is independent of how much tech he has. A good story can have him with a lot or a little. There's no coorelation between the quality of the writing and the amount of tech he has.

And if T'Challa, with or without the Force Push, can take shots from the Hulk then Eric and Kraven shouldn't be able to do jack to him. But they can, because again that's how comics work. So it's only an issue in theory, not practice. His gear will be as effective as it needs to be. I'd prefer a bit more internal logic to all of it, but it is what it is.

Kraven got around the habit by cutting along the grains therefore weakening the integrity allowing him to hurt T'Challa. We know Erik is stronger than T'Challa. Based on Jungle action, T'Challa killed a dinosaur by pulling a tree back and using it as a sling shot to launch a Boulder at it. He brings down two different rhinos with his bare hands, one being 5000 lb. Stops a dinosaur and a 20 long crocodile from crushing him. Destroys a windmills by flexing his muscles. This is just using stuff from Jungle action and that's not even all of it.

Now, we have an idea on tchallas strength. Also in jungle action, T'Challa States the difference in strength between him and Erik is the equivalent of a small child trying to overpower an adult.. this is T'Challa powered by the HSH. So he had super soldier strength and the difference is that big. Add in the fact that in Priest run. Erik was revived AND received additional strength enhancements when he was revived, on top of additional strength feats we see in priest run, like T'Challa stomping a charging elephant with his bare hands, going toe to toe with Ironman, and knocked namor back atleast 10 feet.

So therefore you can digress that he would be strong enough to hurt T'Challa if he were in the habit (Which in ceremonial combat, he may not of even been using the microweave) either way that shows Erik get get through it. Finally yes in priest run hulk and namor both knocked tchalla away. I doubt they were using their full strength. Though it was hard enough to send him flying back atleast 20 feet. But it wasn't full blast.

And now in recent years, he has tanked harder hits from. Stronger foes but at the same time he hasn't really fought anybody and gotten hurt that isn't atleast Spiderman strength thar i can think of. So it's another moot point

[XPac]

Kraven got around the habit by cutting along the grains therefore weakening the integrity allowing him to hurt T'Challa. We know Erik is stronger than T'Challa. Based on Jungle action, T'Challa killed a dinosaur by pulling a tree back and using it as a sling shot to launch a Boulder at it. He brings down two different rhinos with his bare hands, one being 5000 lb. Stops a dinosaur and a 20 long crocodile from crushing him. Destroys a windmills by flexing his muscles. This is just using stuff from Jungle action and that's not even all of it.

Now, we have an idea on tchallas strength. Now also in jungle action, T'Challa States the difference in strength between him and Erik is the equivalent of a small child trying to overpower an adult.. this is T'Challa powered by the HSH. So he had super soldier strength and the difference is that big. Add in the fact that in Priest run. Erik was revived AND received additional strength enhancements when he was revived.

So therefore you can digress that he would be strong enough to hurt T'Challa if he were in the habit (Which in ceremonial combat, he may not of even been using the microweave) either way that shows Erik get get through it. Finally yes in priest run hulk and namor both knocked tchalla away. I doubt they were using their full strength. Though it was hard enough to send him flying back atleast 20 feet. But it wasn't full blast.

And now in recent years, he has tanked harder hits from. Stronger foes but at the same time he hasn't really fought anybody and gotten hurt that isn't atleast Spiderman strength thar i can think of. So it's another moot point

Sure Eric is stronger than T'Challa... but he's over a hundred times weaker than the Hulk. It's the difference between being punched by a human being and being punched by a freaking mouse. I don't think we can make any headway in this conversation simply because I don't think you're quite grasping how vast a difference there is between being punched by one and the other. If the suit can tank blows from the Hulk (even just one) with no ill effect whatsoever, then Killmonger in a straight up hand to hand with T'Challa should be screwed. But that's not the case. Just as it wasn't with the Red Skull.

That said, I'm fine assuming that at times he wasn't using a vibranium laces suit at various times in his career because frankly that's the only way this can make sense. So as head canon goes, it's probably the best we can do.

[Cville]

Cartoon based on Hudlins' first arc made IMDBs top 10 Marvel cartoons.

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-best-anim...47sxv3xTxcmIjg

[XPac]

Cartoon based on Hudlins' first arc made IMDBs top 10 Marvel cartoons.

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-best-anim...47sxv3xTxcmIjg

It deserves it.

Outside of the HORRIBLE voice acting and characterization of Captain America it was near perfect. I'd call it more a motion comic than a cartoon, but that's splitting hairs.