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  1. #7126
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    T'challa's arc didn't start until he opened the country at the end of the movie. That is when T'challa truly became T'challa.

    Until then he was just another Wakandan king and Black panther.
    Y'up. Cap had 3 solos and appeared in 3 Avengers movies before he had his greatest moment in Endgame, same for Tony.

    T'Challa hasn't had his greatest moment yet.

  2. #7127
    Incredible Member KingNomarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    There is some huge revisionist history happening now. There was a not small contingent that did not like T'Chadwick and thought someone else could embody T'challa more. And Thought T'challa was completely overshadowed by MJB, Duke, ect. Some of them are in this very thread now.

    I'm not gonna say anymore than that and I definitely was not one of them as I defended the dude from day one but it is real.



    Russo's don't care about T'challa lol. He was a means to an end. He was an afterthought. "Fuck, we lost spider-man, who else can we add in? Let's just expand T'challas role."

    "Yes, we got spider-man back, lets shoe horn him into the conflict in a way that makes no narrative sense at all and accomplishes nothing to the story!"

    The hard on for certain characters isn't just a comics issue.

    There was literally no reason to snap T'challa. He could have easily taken Okoye's roll in the film and you could have snapped Okoye, Mbaku, Nakia, Shuri, Ramonda and left T'challa in isolation without his support. He could have still showed up in the end with Wakanda's army.

    Instead of Endgame starting with more Hawkeye dick riding (Ronin made no fucking sense and was a waste of time in the movie), imagine T'challa frantically running back to the golden city to see that his sister, mom, and nakia were snapped out of existence after just watching Okoye, Mabku, and half his army disappear.

    But watching Hawkeye's crappy choreograpy in Japan was cool!
    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    T'challa's arc didn't start until he opened the country at the end of the movie. That is when T'challa truly became T'challa.

    Until then he was just another Wakandan king and Black panther.

  3. #7128
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    There is some huge revisionist history happening now. There was a not small contingent that did not like T'Chadwick and thought someone else could embody T'challa more. And Thought T'challa was completely overshadowed by MJB, Duke, ect. Some of them are in this very thread now.

    I'm not gonna say anymore than that and I definitely was not one of them as I defended the dude from day one but it is real.



    Russo's don't care about T'challa lol. He was a means to an end. He was an afterthought. "Fuck, we lost spider-man, who else can we add in? Let's just expand T'challas role."

    "Yes, we got spider-man back, lets shoe horn him into the conflict in a way that makes no narrative sense at all and accomplishes nothing to the story!"

    The hard on for certain characters isn't just a comics issue.

    There was literally no reason to snap T'challa. He could have easily taken Okoye's roll in the film and you could have snapped Okoye, Mbaku, Nakia, Shuri, Ramonda and left T'challa in isolation without his support. He could have still showed up in the end with Wakanda's army.

    Instead of Endgame starting with more Hawkeye dick riding (Ronin made no fucking sense and was a waste of time in the movie), imagine T'challa frantically running back to the golden city to see that his sister, mom, and nakia were snapped out of existence after just watching Okoye, Mabku, and half his army disappear.

    But watching Hawkeye's crappy choreograpy in Japan was cool!
    I imagine the reason to snap Tchalla was to give the most possible attention to the original Avengers since this was their last ride together.

    As far as the Russos knew Tchalla could theoretically be in the next half dozen Avenger movies (and he still might if they recast).

  4. #7129
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I imagine the reason to snap Tchalla was to give the most possible attention to the original Avengers since this was their last ride together.

    As far as the Russos knew Tchalla could theoretically be in the next half dozen Avenger movies (and he still might if they recast).
    Yea I don't care a damn about Hawkeye but plenty of people do and he's an OG MCU Avenger. Frankly I'm surprised he got as much attention as he did. Let the originals have their swansong as long as when it's the second-gen heroes' turn, they get the same credence and screentime.

    I get wanting T'Challa to be used more prominently but Infinity War and Endgame was the big sendoff for characters whose arcs were a decade in the making. I don't have a problem with them taking center stage in that moment. Like I said, I just want T'Challa, Carol, and Strange to get that courtesy when it's time for them to go too.

    I agree with MOS that T'Challa didn't need to die though. But given how influential Wakanda was being set up to be in the MCU, they probably thought keeping him off the table entirely would be easier to explain why the world stayed as messed up as it did. Even Carol got sent into outer space rather than helping out.
    Last edited by chief12d; 09-16-2020 at 08:38 AM.

  5. #7130
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Yea I don't care a damn about Hawkeye but plenty of people do and he's an OG MCU Avenger. Frankly I'm surprised he got as much attention as he did. Let the originals have their swansong as long as when it's the second-gen heroes' turn, they get the same credence and screentime.

    I get wanting T'Challa to be used more prominently but Infinity War and Endgame was the big sendoff for characters whose arcs were a decade in the making. I don't have a problem with them taking center stage in that moment. Like I said, I just want T'Challa, Carol, and Strange to get that courtesy when it's time for them to go too.

    I agree with MOS that T'Challa didn't need to die though. But given how influential Wakanda was being set up to be in the MCU, they probably thought keeping him off the table entirely would be easier to explain why the world stayed as messed up as it did. Even Carol got sent into outer space rather than helping out.
    Eh, he would have just been Okoye in the movie.

    He checks in with the other heroes, tells them some stuff, and leaves. Comes back in portal time. Keeps the continuity of Wakanda still in place instead of this limbo of "who actually ruled for 5 years then?" type stuff. Ignoring it seems weird but wsaiting time in BP2 is also not cool when Coogler has a story he wants to tell.

    One easy line explains why he didn't go with the time travelers. "King T'challa agreed to send us the vibranium we need to get the devices to work, but insisted he can't leave Wakanda unprotected at this time to come with us"


    Selfishly, of course I would want to watch Tchalla go time traveling like the rest of them and F hawkeye lol.

    But I am really just talking about a small change that keeps the continuity in Wakanda the same.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  6. #7131
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    Eh, he would have just been Okoye in the movie.

    He checks in with the other heroes, tells them some stuff, and leaves. Comes back in portal time. Keeps the continuity of Wakanda still in place instead of this limbo of "who actually ruled for 5 years then?" type stuff. Ignoring it seems weird but wsaiting time in BP2 is also not cool when Coogler has a story he wants to tell.

    One easy line explains why he didn't go with the time travelers. "King T'challa agreed to send us the vibranium we need to get the devices to work, but insisted he can't leave Wakanda unprotected at this time to come with us"


    Selfishly, of course I would want to watch Tchalla go time traveling like the rest of them and F hawkeye lol.

    But I am really just talking about a small change that keeps the continuity in Wakanda the same.
    Personally I think the portal scene amounts to anything Okoye said in the movie. He arguably got the biggest pop of the movie, at least in my theater.

  7. #7132
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Yeah I dont begrudge Endgame at all for focusing on the originals as much as it did. That was their moment. And honestly, Hawkeye needed the screen time; dude was an after thought in pretty much all the films and deserved a little attention (I'm not even a fan of Clint, but it's true). Ant-Man ending up with such a big role is fine by me too, since he was a founding Avenger in the comics and getting to play as much as he did in Endgame felt like the character getting what was due to him (even if it wasn't Pym).

    And Snapping T'Challa ensures that Wakanda can't fix the world during the five year time jump. It's crappy for Wakanda, but somewhat necessary to get the rest of the world where Marvel wanted it because you know T'Challa would have held things together if he had been around. And T'Challa walking out of that portal was a much bigger moment than if it had been Nakia or Okoye.

    And Shadow is right; there were people saying the girls and/or MBJ carried the solo film. But I figure that's just showing that BP actually had a *good* supporting cast, which MCU films rarely do. Maybe there are people who bitched about Chadwick's casting who are now singing his praises, but a movie doesn't make a billion on the strength of the supporting cast; the people who bitched about Chadwick were a vocal minority with no more influence than the idiots who tried to boycott or review bomb the film.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #7133
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yeah I dont begrudge Endgame at all for focusing on the originals as much as it did. That was their moment. And honestly, Hawkeye needed the screen time; dude was an after thought in pretty much all the films and deserved a little attention (I'm not even a fan of Clint, but it's true). Ant-Man ending up with such a big role is fine by me too, since he was a founding Avenger in the comics and getting to play as much as he did in Endgame felt like the character getting what was due to him (even if it wasn't Pym).

    It's crappy for Wakanda, but somewhat necessary to get the rest of the world where Marvel wanted it because you know T'Challa would have held things together if he had been around. And T'Challa walking out of that portal was a much bigger moment than if it had been Nakia or Okoye.
    Shiiiiiit, world ain't listening to some black dude who just made himself known a few years ago lol.

    and hawkeye had AoU. What did the Ronin side quest add to the movie?

    but at least we got to clap when Tc'halla came back! yay!

    Everyone always makes excuses for other characters getting screen time but as soon as you say "You know, black Panther should..." it is "whoa whoa whoa can't do that because of THIS reason! HAWKEYE MAN!"

    Chadwick's death has made me extra bitter and salty now. At least I used to have the excuse of "he will be in New Avengers! BP 2 and 3!" Now I got nothing but bitterness
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  9. #7134
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    I don't hate that T'Challa got dusted in Infinity War.

    I hate that he got dusted for five years.

  10. #7135
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    It is not honoring him necessarily but Chadwick is so tied to the role and did so well that the next person will have a very hard time. They will be people who are unable to see T'challa as anyone other than Chadwick. Then you have to find actor the caliber of Chadwick then imagine if the actor isn't good and what that will do the brand/character. The big point is this isn't easy decision and bothsides dicussion have real downsides. I am actually on the side of a recast but I am fine whatever direction they go because it is a tough choice.

    Now the one thing move on does is give us a chance at closure. And a well written ending to T'challa give us a chance to grieve Chadwick and Black Panther. And leave the legacy of character the actor had in tact.

    Anyways there is no easy answer here and the sad part of this is Chadwick didn't get to see the outpouring of love people had for him. I get he why he didn't saying anything he was 100% in belief that he was going to beat it but I wish we could gotten to share how much he meant to us while he was alive.
    Well thank goodness T'challa has a full body suit that still looks like the black panther. Ppl will be fine. We are all adults.

  11. #7136
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    I don't hate that T'Challa got dusted in Infinity War.

    I hate that he got dusted for five years.
    Depending on whether or not Coogler wants to make use of the time jump, that potentially does create some potentially interesting scenarios for Wakanda when we return. Catching up with M'Baku and Nakia half a decade later could be interesting.

  12. #7137
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumbaa View Post
    Yeah, I feel you. I'm sure the agenda driven people exist, I'm just not subscribed to them on YouTube but I'm still seeing overwhelmingly that people are saying they prefer a mantle pass rather than a recast. Even some videos I saw didn't think Shuri was right for the new BP but they still didn't want a recast. There's something else going on here besides the pro-Shuri crowd.

    Yeah I've heard all those same criticisms,but then again I'm also seeing people that love MCU T'challa saying they think he did such a good job that they should honor Chadwick by retiring the character. This is clearly a point of view that can't be altogether dismissed as an agenda from bad actors.
    He's only been dead a week. Calls for replacing him should be quieter. There is no lack of support for recasting. Ppl that want a recast likely have enough respect and tact to wait for the family to bury the man before calling for his replacement. Sadly, those calls had to be moved up since this Shuri agenda has been so vocal just days after his death. As time goes on more ppl will be more vocal about a recast and actors will be bolder in pushing to be the next Tchalla. But that takes time these casual mcu fans for Shuri aren't allowing

  13. #7138
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    Well thank goodness T'challa has a full body suit that still looks like the black panther. Ppl will be fine. We are all adults.
    Depending on how they want to handle things a full body suit does make things a bit easier potentially. Finding a descent voice actor and maybe even applying a bit of cgi basically make him a usable character without a full recast in a limited capacity.

  14. #7139
    Mighty Member Ekie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    I don't hate that T'Challa got dusted in Infinity War.

    I hate that he got dusted for five years.
    Well he's about to be dusted forever all for the glory of his supporting character

  15. #7140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    And Shadow is right; there were people saying the girls and/or MBJ carried the solo film. But I figure that's just showing that BP actually had a *good* supporting cast, which MCU films rarely do. Maybe there are people who bitched about Chadwick's casting who are now singing his praises, but a movie doesn't make a billion on the strength of the supporting cast; the people who bitched about Chadwick were a vocal minority with no more influence than the idiots who tried to boycott or review bomb the film.
    Oh like this guy???

    https://shawnsjames.blogspot.com/202...the-black.html
    https://shawnsjames.blogspot.com/202...replacing.html

    His dislike of Black Panther was legendary especially towards Ryan Coolger (that got personal) and attacked black folks for supporting it.

    Now it's retire the franchise as respect to Boseman and invest in Blue Marvel. Which is shocking because he hasn't read a Marvel book in 20+ years. How would he know who Blue marvel is?




    They definitely weren't attentive to fan enthusiasm. Then again the movies were made so close together and it would've been hard for them to know.
    Well no one knew. I mean in all reality Marvel's most well know black folks were Storm and Falcon. Because everybody born between 1970-2000-saw them in something Marvel related.
    Now you give me a guy from Africa. Knowing the issues most American blacks have with Africans and HOPED this film would break even.

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