Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[XPac]

Personally I have reason to doubt him. Everyone knows my thoughts on it so I'm not going to reeat it. I'll just say this . The same money defense that we're making about success could have been applied and was applied to Coats his very first few issues. Just because it makes money doesn't mean it couldn't have been better. This IP is one of the most valuable in the world period anyone that works with it is working with GOLD. We need to start there in recognizing that and be free to critique wherever we feel the need to critique as longtime fans of the characters who've gotten this character and his franchise to this point through our unwavering support over the last 10 to 20 to 40 years. That support is finally paying off and now there's an opportunity for it to come to a complete halt for the glory of one of his supporting characters? If he caters and ignores the mythos Coogler will be Coats as far as I'm concerned.

Don't disagree it cant be better. I just won't assume it will be bad or incoherent until he gives reason to assume it will be.

[Blind Wedjat]

Do you honestly think they will still use T'challa in video games if they decide to shift to Shuri as BP?

Do you still think they will have T'challa at Disney World for a photoshoot if they are too afraid to recast in the MCU? Wouldn't that bring the same emotions due to the fact you can't see faces in BP habit?

Why would they put marketing effort into a character they cant' profit from? It doesn't really make sense to have both of them. Their powersets are identical. It is simply a reskin.

I am sure a lot of people are being pessimistic as hell with it but I think you are being a tad too optimistic.

The only reason BP ever got a cartoon or a DLC in recent games is because fo the MCU. Ditto for legos, merch, toys. It sure as hell aint' because fo the comics.

In fact, I think if they refused to recast but still decided to profit off of T'chadwick woudl be about the grossest possible option. "Sorry, we can't recast.. but make sure to buy this T'chadwick figurine still!"

I do think there are plausible arguments for not recasting. But for T'challa the character, it would be a serious set back until they reboot in 30 years.

Just because Shuri might get a legitimate fanbase if she gets to be the lead in BP2 (which doesn't mean she would be Black Panther), doesn't mean she will kick T'Challa out of the franchise. Shuri getting a fanbase doesn't mean T'Challa loses his. This isn't a zero sum game, and we can't praise the first film for it's female representation but suddenly have a problem when things don't go our way. Plus, who's to say Shuri would be used to carry on the franchise? Letitia Wright might just want to do the second film as a send-off and move on. Again, consider all options, not just the ones you want and the ones that make you scared.

So to answer your question: yes, I believe T'Challa would be used in a video game if one was ever made. I believe T'Challa would still be used in anything Disney wants to because they care more about money than goodwill. Why? Because he's that much of an icon now, even if his time may have been cut short. Studios will recognise that and put out products with him in it because people would want him now more than ever. The main reason why I'm not feeling a recast at the moment (again, I've acknowledged that my mind may change) is because I seriously cannot think of an actor that's both available and can do the part justice. It's starting to sound like legitimate gripes with the comic book industry are clouding your judgement on how things would go down and you can only see one outcome.

I know Bosemans' death is still fresh in everyones' mind. But BP2 won't hit theaters until 2023 at the earliest so we're looking at 2 and 1/2 plus years. That's a longtime for opinions to change.

Opinions can change in both directions. Why aren't you acknowledging that could happen? Recasting may sound like the best bet until either no one good is available for the role or who is picked isn't a good choice. Letting Shuri lead the film might sound like a wrong choice until we actually see and hear what the ideas behind it are. My point is that neither option is wrong or right. They're options that have legitimate reason to be taken.

I say this with the most sympathy that one could have

The.... show.. must...go...on.
The grieving process has been constant and Marvel has done everything they can to honor Bozeman. When this movie comes out it will have been 3 years since his passing. Let's stop pretending like we're not adults. Recast and continue the story that you were hired to tell and we're planning on telling before the sudden tragedy. There is no one that will be able to claim that Marvel cast Bozeman aside casually without looking like a fool.
If the MCU isn't telling black panther stories then I'm not interested. Not MBaku Black Panther, Killmonger Black panther, Okoye Black Panther, Klaw Black Panther, or Shuri Black Panther. The Black Panther.

Except it isn't been three years since his passing. It's only been a month. I don't know how I'll feel in three years. You don't know how you'll feel in three years. We don't know how Marvel and the BP crew will feel in three years. Just because you say something will happen because it's what you want, doesn't mean that it will happen. Grieving doesn't just stop when you want it to. It's a continuous process with highs and lows. And just because we're all adults here, doesn't mean it's just adults that watch these movies. Lots of kids saw that movie too, and separating an actor from a character is not as easy for them as it is for us. It's not their fault, and they shouldn't be chastised for that. And this is not even the first case of this happening too. Many people see these superhero actors as the characters they play, especially when said actors play it up as part of their image (like RDJ giving people advanced prosthetic limbs and Chris Evans going into politics). Chadwick Boseman embodied royalty and black excellence outside of Black Panther, and for many people that is irreplaceable.

I've also seen some really strange claims that for some reason Shuri cannot sell action or it means young black boys won't have anyone to look up to. Both of these are bollocks. Shuri might not be able to sell the hand-to-hand, martial arts type action you want but we're talking about a character whose genius and technology rivals Tony Stark, and he had no problems with action in his movies. Furthermore, what's wrong with black boys looking up to Shuri? She's not a stereotypical teenage girl whose problems are boys and fashion. She's a royal genius that has participated in two major battles. If she is gonna be the lead, she's stepping into a major position of political power. She's no different from Stark or Peter Parker. There's no reason why she can't encourage young black kids, boys and girls, to go into STEM fields and be the best in their field of study. In all these recent years of being progressive I absolutely detest this idea that male characters only belong to men and female characters only belong to women, especially when said character aren't defined by their gender.

If our concern is "who are the kids gonna look up to?" then Shuri is more than a worthy candidate to keep that light burning. Just because she might not be who we want, doesn't mean she isn't.

[VantaBlack]

I can't see how some of y'all can think killing off/phasing out T'Challa in the next movie will/should bring us any semblance of therapy for Chadwick Boseman's death.
It'll be compounding trauma in my eyes

[Pulp Fiction]

Coates spending 5 years writing a stealth storm book was a good thing because storm fans were happy. Right? Cut the gaslighting. I had to go through this with Finn and star wars. Using a black man as a stepping stone to prop up another minority group at their expense is never and will never ever be a good thing. I'm sick of it. Full stop

[Blind Wedjat]

Oh for f*** sake. There's a big difference between how a writer decides to approach a comic book versus what a studio and director are forced to do because the main actor passed away. Like, you're almost moving towards victim blaming territory here.

How about you guys stop using a man's death to address and talk about some agenda you believe is present in the industry or whatever. That's actually what is sickening.

[Chesterfield]

Just read Chadwick used money out of his own pocket to increase Sienna Miller's salary for their film 21 Bridges. You think a man so selfless and putting Matthew 6:1 into action in all he did would be opposed to a new actor filling in the role of T'Challa? Hell no. I'm not arrogant enough to speak on behalf of Chadwick on what he would have definitively wanted BUT actions speak LOUDER than words and to me, his actions practically scream, "Don't let T'Challa die with me!".

[Ezyo1000]

Depending on how Coogler wants to play it, IW and EG potentially makes it easier for him to walk away. Wakanda spent half a decade without him. If Wakanda was falling apart without him then yes, I imagine he could not just walk away. If Wakanda was doing just fine without him, then it's more viable. Again, if Coogler wants to make it work then he can. And if he doesn't, they'll recast and it'll be moot.

But if we look to the source material, when Shuri became Black Panther in Hudlins run T'Challa didn't REALLY die. And T'Challa did in just walk away from Wakanda post Doom War and let Shuri handle things. Not that the movies necessarily can or even should follow the comics, but the point being all this is something we as comic readers at least have seen before.

We don't know how Wakanda was doing, but they were probably doing slightly better than the rest of the world. And again, when he became King and opened Wakanda what happened? They got invaded and then the snap. They saw that there are powers out there that can rival their own tech. It would be stupid for T'Challa to open Wakanda then just peace out. Your cannot logically make it happen without it looking very stupid.

Abd your cant nake an accurate comparison because comic Shuri is MCU Shuri In name only And no where in the source material did T'Challa get snapped and was dead for 5 years. And we already know mcu doesn't follow source material outside of general outlines

[Marvell2100]

Opinions can change in both directions. Why aren't you acknowledging that could happen? Recasting may sound like the best bet until either no one good is available for the role or who is picked isn't a good choice. Letting Shuri lead the film might sound like a wrong choice until we actually see and hear what the ideas behind it are. My point is that neither option is wrong or right. They're options that have legitimate reason to be taken.

Dude you're right, opinions can change in either direction.

[Blind Wedjat]

Just read Chadwick used money out of his own pocket to increase Sienna Miller's salary for their film 21 Bridges. You think a man so selfless and putting Matthew 6:1 into action in all he did would be opposed to a new actor filling in the role of T'Challa? Hell no. I'm not arrogant enough to speak on behalf of Chadwick on what he would have definitively wanted BUT actions speak LOUDER than words and to me, his actions practically scream, "Don't let T'Challa die with me!".

That's how you're choosing to interpret it. Chadwick didn't do that to send some kind of message. He did it because he thought it was the right thing to do (and was able to do it). How does that have any bearing on what you think he would have wanted for the role of Black Panther?

All we know is according to reports, he thought he could beat colon cancer and get back into shape for the role. That's it. We don't know anything else, and pretending as if you do makes no sense. It's totally fine if you want a recast, but these justifications are starting to sound like wish fulfilment.

Just because you think you aren't being arrogant to speak for a man who's no longer here, doesn't mean you actually aren't. You didn't know him. You're not his family or friends, or even colleague. None of us were.

[MoneySpider]

I can't see how some of y'all can think killing off/phasing out T'Challa in the next movie will/should bring us any semblance of therapy for Chadwick Boseman's death.
It'll be compounding trauma in my eyes

Not to mention how many times already T'Challa was thought to be dead or was dead onscreen in the MCU already. He;'s only been in the MCU for 4 years, and in 2 of the 4 movies he appeared in, didn't have a significant role. Now some people want T'Challa taken off the board PERMANENTLY in order to "honor" Chadwick Boseman. That's a very odd way to honor someone who brought a character to the big screen who EVERYONE could look up to. In my mind, it makes more sense to honor someone by CONTINUING the work they started, not by ending it.

[Ezyo1000]

I've also seen some really strange claims that for some reason Shuri cannot sell action or it means young black boys won't have anyone to look up to. Both of these are bollocks. Shuri might not be able to sell the hand-to-hand, martial arts type action you want but we're talking about a character whose genius and technology rivals Tony Stark, and he had no problems with action in his movies. Furthermore, what's wrong with black boys looking up to Shuri? She's not a stereotypical teenage girl whose problems are boys and fashion. She's a royal genius that has participated in two major battles. If she is gonna be the lead, she's stepping into a major position of political power. She's no different from Stark or Peter Parker. There's no reason why she can't encourage young black kids, boys and girls, to go into STEM fields and be the best in their field of study. In all these recent years of being progressive I absolutely detest this idea that male characters only belong to men and female characters only belong to women, especially when said character aren't defined by their gender.

If our concern is "who are the kids gonna look up to?" then Shuri is more than a worthy candidate to keep that light burning. Just because she might not be who we want, doesn't mean she isn't.

Because kids gravitate to characters that look like them. Otherwise Cap marvel toys should of been a hit, sane with WW, or Black widow. Black girls had 3 characters from the movie to look up to, a spy, a super genius princess, and a warrior and general of the Wakandan army. Black boys had, T'Challa and maybe M'Baku. But yeah kids look up to characters that look like then abd on can guarantee you that there weren't a bunch of boys dressing up like Shuri, Nakia or Okoye after the first movie. What you are saying is the same as what we have been told for decade's when it comes to poc starring on roles outside of slave movies, gang bangers and inner city isht. "Kids can still be inspired by these white characters and look up to them" yes but it makes a bigger impact when it's someone who looks just like you do.

And there's a big difference between praising a film for it's proper use of it's SUPPORTING cast and then having problems when that supporting cast starts encroaching on the protagonists and trying to phase them out. Remember Blade Trinity? See how well that worked when the supporting cast members phased out Blade and he became a supporting character in his own movie. BP has done more for Black female representation that any other superhero movie. Period end of story. BUT BP is t an ensemble hero movie's like avengers or JL or suicide squad. So people need to stop trying to treat it that way and looking at it like that when they say things like it would be Totally fine for the supporting cast to take the reigns of the franchise. This has nothing to do with me owning Male characters or females owning only female characters, it's about a title character of a franchise not being pushed out for supporting cast members, especially one who's been around for 50 years and is nowhere near the level of characters who have been around for the same amount of time.

You want to talk about being progressive? You know what I detest in all my years of progression? This idea that Black boys need to sit down and to the side and let black girls run things or have their time. BOTH Black men and women deserve their time equally, we don't need to tear each other down to make the other look good. And if anything BP (and to a lesser extent luke cage) should be the ammunition people use to push for characters like storm or misty, or vixen, or Monica to get their own movies, or for Shuri to get a D+ show. Instead of trying to cannibalize the movie that broke the glass ceiling of what Will and won't sell

[Ezyo1000]

That's how you're choosing to interpret it. Chadwick didn't do that to send some kind of message. He did it because he thought it was the right thing to do (and was able to do it). How does that have any bearing on what you think he would have wanted for the role of Black Panther?

All we know is according to reports, he thought he could beat colon cancer and get back into shape for the role. That's it. We don't know anything else, and pretending as if you do makes no sense. It's totally fine if you want a recast, but these justifications are starting to sound like wish fulfilment.

Just because you think you aren't being arrogant to speak for a man who's no longer here, doesn't mean you actually aren't. You didn't know him. You're not his family or friends, or even colleague. None of us were.

Except people aren't just going off reports, but what he has said in interviews. His own words. Again it Seems people are getting too fired up, but based on what he said, doesn't appear that T'Challa loves and dies with him. Again, I'm not calling for any specific actor to take the role. Its not even something to even worry about for several years still. BUT just like RDJ, Evans, hemsworth, ruffalo etc etc. I GUARANTEE YOU they don't want these characters to live and die with them.

[Overhazard]

Because kids gravitate to characters that look like them. Otherwise Cap marvel toys should of been a hit, sane with WW, or Black widow. Black girls had 3 characters from the movie to look up to, a spy, a super genius princess, and a warrior and general of the Wakandan army. Black boys had, T'Challa and maybe M'Baku. But yeah kids look up to characters that look like then abd on can guarantee you that there weren't a bunch of boys dressing up like Shuri, Nakia or Okoye after the first movie. What you are saying is the same as what we have been told for decade's when it comes to poc starring on roles outside of slave movies, gang bangers and inner city isht. "Kids can still be inspired by these white characters and look up to them" yes but it makes a bigger impact when it's someone who looks just like you do.

And there's a big difference between praising a film for it's proper use of it's SUPPORTING cast and then having problems when that supporting cast starts encroaching on the protagonists and trying to phase them out. Remember Blade Trinity? See how well that worked when the supporting cast members phased out Blade and he became a supporting character in his own movie. BP has done more for Black female representation that any other superhero movie. Period end of story. BUT BP is t an ensemble hero movie's like avengers or JL or suicide squad. So people need to stop trying to treat it that way and looking at it like that when they say things like it would be Totally fine for the supporting cast to take the reigns of the franchise. This has nothing to do with me owning Male characters or females owning only female characters, it's about a title character of a franchise not being pushed out for supporting cast members, especially one who's been around for 50 years and is nowhere near the level of characters who have been around for the same amount of time.

You want to talk about being progressive? You know what I detest in all my years of progression? This idea that Black boys need to sit down and to the side and let black girls run things or have their time. BOTH Black men and women deserve their time equally, we don't need to tear each other down to make the other look good. And if anything BP (and to a lesser extent luke cage) should be the ammunition people use to push for characters like storm or misty, or vixen, or Monica to get their own movies, or for Shuri to get a D+ show. Instead of trying to cannibalize the movie that broke the glass ceiling of what Will and won't sell

It really doesn't have to be an either or situation. The fact that representation is treated this way adds more fuel to the fire of this seemingly never ending war of attrition between black men and black women.

[MindofShadow]

Just because Shuri might get a legitimate fanbase if she gets to be the lead in BP2 (which doesn't mean she would be Black Panther), doesn't mean she will kick T'Challa out of the franchise. Shuri getting a fanbase doesn't mean T'Challa loses his. This isn't a zero sum game, and we can't praise the first film for it's female representation but suddenly have a problem when things don't go our way. Plus, who's to say Shuri would be used to carry on the franchise? Letitia Wright might just want to do the second film as a send-off and move on. Again, consider all options, not just the ones you want and the ones that make you scared.

So to answer your question: yes, I believe T'Challa would be used in a video game if one was ever made. I believe T'Challa would still be used in anything Disney wants to because they care more about money than goodwill. Why? Because he's that much of an icon now, even if his time may have been cut short. Studios will recognise that and put out products with him in it because people would want him now more than ever. The main reason why I'm not feeling a recast at the moment (again, I've acknowledged that my mind may change) is because I seriously cannot think of an actor that's both available and can do the part justice. It's starting to sound like legitimate gripes with the comic book industry are clouding your judgement on how things would go down and you can only see one outcome.

I never brought up the comics in my post.

Everyone has said, "Make Shuri the black panther" hence that is what is being discussed. There aren't articles saying, "Make shuri the lead and bury the BP title with T'challa." So that is no one is talking about the hypothetical "doesn't mean shuri has to be black panther" you randomly brought up.

Have to agree to disagree on the video game or cartoon or whatever thing.

I've also seen some really strange claims that for some reason Shuri cannot sell action or it means young black boys won't have anyone to look up to. Both of these are bollocks. Shuri might not be able to sell the hand-to-hand, martial arts type action you want but we're talking about a character whose genius and technology rivals Tony Stark, and he had no problems with action in his movies. Furthermore, what's wrong with black boys looking up to Shuri? She's not a stereotypical teenage girl whose problems are boys and fashion. She's a royal genius that has participated in two major battles. If she is gonna be the lead, she's stepping into a major position of political power. She's no different from Stark or Peter Parker. There's no reason why she can't encourage young black kids, boys and girls, to go into STEM fields and be the best in their field of study. In all these recent years of being progressive I absolutely detest this idea that male characters only belong to men and female characters only belong to women, especially when said character aren't defined by their gender.

If our concern is "who are the kids gonna look up to?" then Shuri is more than a worthy candidate to keep that light burning. Just because she might not be who we want, doesn't mean she isn't.

This is naïve thinking. you can easily say black people don't need black people to look up to, they can just look up to the Peter Parker right? girls don't need girl superheroes, they can just by Captain America toys right?

The world isn't that progressive. And hell, the black community is 100% not that progressive either.

[MindofShadow]

Oh well.

I've said it once but I'll say it again. I am being selfish in what I want. Both from a T'challa fanatic angle (I only care about T'challa) and a continuation of the story current BP story angle (I want to see where Coogler was going with his story).

If Feige or Coogler or Iger or whatever decide they don't want ot go in that direction anymore, then so be it. Good Luck, but it'll be just another MCU movie and franchise to me. I have no interest in a non-T'challa based story at this time. All you can really do is vote with your wallet. Money rules the world.

I like some of y'all too much too much to argue (it is only a discussion if people ight change their mind. No one is changing their mind right now lol). Shitty situation in a shitty year.

See yall when Khonshu catches those claws from T'challa (right Aaron... right!??)