Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[XPac]

Priest's run was weird because if only members of Bashenga's bloodline could be BP then the idea of the trials loses a lot of legitimacy. Why have it open to regular folk if they'll just die after winning? It never made sense and seems to have been ignored since then because when T'Challa was no longer BP there was a panel where S'Yan expected Storm to replace him. I think that was isolated incident that can be explained away as either Killmonger lying to give Kaspar his synthetic version or Bast herself explaining how the herb works.

Assuming it's true (and it might not be or it could have been retconned) then there are 2 ways of looking at it. On one hand yes, it means the whole thing loses legitimacy. On the other it prevents people like Killmonger from getting the crown. We didn't need a coup to stop Killmonger like we did in the MCU movies because they rigged the game. Whether or not it's legit, it's actually smart.

[XPac]

It's got to be more than Bast. If it were just her, they wouldn't need the herb. T'Challa held up very well against 3 enhanced people and a pretty much superhuman KP in David Liss' run and he took at direct hit from Phoenix-Namor in AvX. He wasn't ruler at either time.

Bast can give you a power-boost certainly but with centuries if ingesting an irradiated plant, that has to alter your DNA and make you enhanced.

T'Challa is king of the dead in AvX. When he got the power boost in Hickmans FF, he was still married to Storm in that story.

It's certainly true that T'Challa in Liss run performed very well... just as well as he would have if he had the hsh or the KotD powers. You usually can't tell the difference visually between a person who is peak human or slightly meta human... on panel it basically looks the same. The only way you know he's depowered is because Liss book specifically states that he is. Otherwise you really can't tell the difference.

[XPac]

I remember that from one of the earlier parts of The Other: Evolve or Die. It was supposed to help with the mysterious illness --- actually his "spider side" getting ready to evolve further --- he was dying from.

It honestly was a pretty silly scene. T'Challa decides to randomly serve Peter the heart shaped herb like it was a salad.

But that scene does POTENTIALLY retcon Priest story. Then again, Spider-Mans powers does give him immunity to poison to some degree, so it's also possible it was specifically safe for only him to consume it. We'll never really know for sure until a regular person consumes the herb in a story someone. Honestly a little surprised more villains haven't tried it.

[Micabe]

Tchalla got depowered when he lost the throne, so it's not just genetics or even injesting the herb. There's another aspect to it specifically linked to being the present ruling Black Panther. I would presume its Bast related.

It's got to be more than Bast. If it were just her, they wouldn't need the herb. T'Challa held up very well against 3 enhanced people and a pretty much superhuman KP in David Liss' run and he took at direct hit from Phoenix-Namor in AvX. He wasn't ruler at either time.

Bast can give you a power-boost certainly but with centuries if ingesting an irradiated plant, that has to alter your DNA and make you enhanced.

Can anyone cite the title and issue where T'Challa lost his "Heart-Shaped Herb" induced abilities?

[Jabare]

ugh, I was afraid Infinity War would paint how Marvel portrayed Wakanda going forward in battles.


Where are the tanks? Where are the flying ships? The Mechs?

[Dboi654]

ugh, I was afraid Infinity War would paint how Marvel portrayed Wakanda going forward in battles.


Where are the tanks? Where are the flying ships? The Mechs?

Didn't make sense in the movie. Doesn't make sense in this issue.

[chief12d]

I figured Killmonger was lying because why would Tchalla save him if he knows Killmonger would die.

Spiderman are the herb, nothing happened. Killmonger just wanted to justify Bast telling him he wasn't worthy. Lol.

Which is completely in character for him and keeps the mythos intact lol. I was just reading MindofShadow's blog (which is amazing) and he said it could also be the herb reacting poorly with whatever enhancements KM had before to taking it. That also makes more sense than the HSH only working on Bashenga's line.

[XPac]

ugh, I was afraid Infinity War would paint how Marvel portrayed Wakanda going forward in battles.


Where are the tanks? Where are the flying ships? The Mechs?

We still might see more in the background, and we know some sort of giant megazord is supposed to at least show up in the cancelled mini.

But the thing is that ship fights often don't translate well into comics (as we saw in Coates book despite the art work being on point). Super hero comics just work better with heroes on the ground fighting man to man, even if it doesn't make a ton of sense in any sort of modern warefare. This inherently still is an Avenger/FF story... and we're most likely not going to see them fight flying ships or tanks. It's an issue of the genre more than anything else.

[chief12d]

Assuming it's true (and it might not be or it could have been retconned) then there are 2 ways of looking at it. On one hand yes, it means the whole thing loses legitimacy. On the other it prevents people like Killmonger from getting the crown. We didn't need a coup to stop Killmonger like we did in the MCU movies because they rigged the game. Whether or not it's legit, it's actually smart.

I agree, the HSH poisoning everyone not of Bashenga's line is a great layer of defense but it feels so out of place when you consider the idea of the trials. I think it's one of those Priest additions that should be properly contextualized or retconned to make sense.

Didn't make sense in the movie. Doesn't make sense in this issue.

Yea, if there's one thing I'll happily criticize about MCU BP it's the way Coogler choose to depict Wakanda's military. I'm gonna handwave it as him being cinematic and wanting to create a reason for MASSIVE upgrades in the future. Because this McGregor-style medieval warfare is not for me lol.

[Marvell2100]

T'Challa is king of the dead in AvX. When he got the power boost in Hickmans FF, he was still married to Storm in that story.

It's certainly true that T'Challa in Liss run performed very well... just as well as he would have if he had the hsh or the KotD powers. You usually can't tell the difference visually between a person who is peak human or slightly meta human... on panel it basically looks the same. The only way you know he's depowered is because Liss book specifically states that he is. Otherwise you really can't tell the difference.

T'Challa wasn't the ruling BP, Shuri was.

Being King of the dead only meant that he could raise the dead and talk to his ancestors. That had nothing to do with enhanced strength, speed, stamina or reflexes.

He was basically Dr. Voodoo.

[Marvell2100]

Can anyone cite the title and issue where T'Challa lost his "Heart-Shaped Herb" induced abilities?

He was supposedly de-powered during David Liss' run.

[DigiCom]

I'm wondering, if previous Panthers ingested the herb, you'd think that whatever they gained would pass on genetically to their offspring. So by the time T'Challa was born, would he even need to ingest the herb?

It would just be ritual at this point.

Genetics don't work that way. It was actually a theory for a while (look up Lamarckism) but it's not considered valid these days.

[XPac]

Can anyone cite the title and issue where T'Challa lost his "Heart-Shaped Herb" induced abilities?

He lost his hsh abilities to Shuir at the start of Maeberrys run (which I believe would be vol 5 #7). He latere gains a different set of abilities from alchemy and vibranium tatooes to fight Doom in Doom War, but by the start of Liss' BP run he loses those as well.

[XPac]

T'Challa wasn't the ruling BP, Shuri was.

Being King of the dead only meant that he could raise the dead and talk to his ancestors. That had nothing to do with enhanced strength, speed, stamina or reflexes.

He was basically Dr. Voodoo.

Hickmans FF run stated he had the strength of the previous BP's but I suppose that could have been hyperbole.

Honestly it's all sort of moot anyways, since he basically performs exactly the same regardless of whether it's the hsh, the vibranium tatooes kotd, or whether he's depowered. It's basially impossible to tell the difference at least in the comic medium. Spider-Man at times has the same problem at least in terms of speed and agility. Batman and Daredevil pretty much do the same stuff, so you only really know he has legit superhuman agility because the books flat out say so.

[MindofShadow]

Can anyone cite the title and issue where T'Challa lost his "Heart-Shaped Herb" induced abilities?

Deadliest of the Species (Black Panther, vol 5, #1-6)

I believe #6 was THE issue. When Shuri got the powers, T'challa would be stripped of his. Which is why Morlun changed from targeting T'challa to Shuri mid issue.

It was implied she gained the powers when she was willing to fight morlun (powerless) and basically sacrifice herself. That is when Bast found her worthy, when she was no long just thinking about poor ol Shuri.

Power (Black Panther, vol 5, #7-11) and Doom War.... you can see T'challa try to find other ways to repower himself to fight Doom.

Which is completely in character for him and keeps the mythos intact lol. I was just reading MindofShadow's blog (which is amazing) and he said it could also be the herb reacting poorly with whatever enhancements KM had before to taking it. That also makes more sense than the HSH only working on Bashenga's line.

For the uninitiated: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...-is-toxic.html


Now I need to update this. Because now we know the source of Killmonger's power thanks to the Killmonger mini. His source is another God.

Ain't no freaking way Bast was having any of that. Not only was Killmonger a bad person but he was also the avatar of someone else already?

So, i'll triple down on my head canon favorite... Bast put his ass in the coma. Now, thanks to the killmonger mini, my newest addition to this head canon was that Bast didn't just put him in a coma to spare T'challa the asterix... she put him in the coma because she wasn't powerful enough to completely kill another gods avatar.

Put a bow on that ****! wrap it up. Bast did it!