Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Blind Wedjat]

I agree in that T'Challa was foward thinking in Civil War. That T'Challa was closer to comic book T'Challa. The line he says to Cap in the vehicle, "Warrior to warrior, . . . " had me thinking, "This is T'Challa as a warrior." Calm and ignoring the juvenile quip from Sam and just telling Cap that he cannot protect Barnes from him. He is calm and in total control of his anger.

This deleted scene shows T'Challa two steps ahead of Widow. T'Challa lets her know that he knows she is psychologically assessing him and he shows her that he is better at this game than she is. Too bad this scene is not in the released film.

If Civil War T'Challa is apparently closer to his comic book counterpart, how come that movie never even implies that he's a super genius and inventor on the level of Tony Stark? Isn't that what the entire complaint is because you feel Shuri was given that?

Do you guys just want bragging rights or can we just accept that T'Challa being an inventor which MCU Shuri is, really isn't his defining trait? Even Civil War shows that T'Challa had a team investigating his father's death, not himself. That's a constant in how T'Challa has been written since Priest.

T'Challa's genius has always been at its most interesting when he's outsmarting people in intellectual and political games of chess, and in combat, not bragging about his inventions. In all her genius Shuri never solves any of the film's major problems so I don't even know why this is such an issue.

It's like complaining about Batman not being shown to be an inventor when his genius has always been at its best when it's applied to detective work (and other members of the Bat-Family have been established to be smarter than him).

[Agent Z]

I agree in that T'Challa was foward thinking in Civil War. That T'Challa was closer to comic book T'Challa. The line he says to Cap in the vehicle, "Warrior to warrior, . . . " had me thinking, "This is T'Challa as a warrior." Calm and ignoring the juvenile quip from Sam and just telling Cap that he cannot protect Barnes from him. He is calm and in total control of his anger.

He also spent the majority of the movie chasing the wrong guy and only found out Bucky wasn't responsible for his father's death after hearing Zemo's confession.

[Agent Z]

If Black Panther had been created in the 21st Century, what do you think the franchise would be like? What would change and what would stay the same? What would be added and what would be removed?

[Ferro]

not sure if it will be uplifting BUT I am a skeptical co-owner of an "Marvel's Avengers Game" that was ready to write off the title completly, HOWEVER, Kate Bishop who'se a lame version of a somewhat lame character already, managed to outshide pretty much the rest of the cast on pretty much every metric.
She also has some excelent build diversity and even better itemization than the rest, with striking changes to your mechanics provided by said loot (infinite teleports are fun).
It gave me a tinsy bit of hope for Hawkeye and tchalla( who is comfirmed to be after clint), while certain issues remain at the core design aspects and systems, their hero gameplay design has absolutly improved remarkably, so at least tchalla is bound to be cool as a character, at the very least.

[DigiCom]

If Black Panther had been created in the 21st Century, what do you think the franchise would be like? What would change and what would stay the same? What would be added and what would be removed?

I think some of the more cliched elements might go by the wayside, like the tribal challenge and the heart-shaped herb. Instead, a franchise created from scratch would be more likely to lean into real-world African spirituality, especially if it was created by someone who was, you know, actually African.

I also suspect it wouldn't be called Black Panther, since not only is the whole "Black hero named Black something" old-fashioned, but there are no panthers in Africa. Perhaps Ingonyama, Ingwe, or Tau.

Visually, there's an artist on Deviantart I revisit every once in a while who has a great Afrofuturist aesthetic:

https://www.deviantart.com/mshindo9/...alth-340623939

Our own Flex Hectic knows him, I believe.

[Cville]

If Black Panther had been created in the 21st Century, what do you think the franchise would be like? What would change and what would stay the same? What would be added and what would be removed?

I'd think it make it less interesting, but they'd probably make BP a solely military post that would only change hands if the current holder died or if the military brass chose to dismiss him. Hed have an official rank of Captain, but could take field command during a conflict. Spiritual side would be ambiguous at best and enchantments would happen in a lab.

[MouserGrey]

I think some of the more cliched elements might go by the wayside, like the tribal challenge and the heart-shaped herb. Instead, a franchise created from scratch would be more likely to lean into real-world African spirituality, especially if it was created by someone who was, you know, actually African.

I also suspect it wouldn't be called Black Panther, since not only is the whole "Black hero named Black something" old-fashioned, but there are no panthers in Africa. Perhaps Ingonyama, Ingwe, or Tau.

Visually, there's an artist on Deviantart I revisit every once in a while who has a great Afrofuturist aesthetic:

https://www.deviantart.com/mshindo9/...alth-340623939

Our own Flex Hectic knows him, I believe.

Black panthers are leopards. They even have spots. I agree, however, that they wouldn't probably name him "black" panther. Leopard King?

[Gessela]

I think some of the more cliched elements might go by the wayside, like the tribal challenge and the heart-shaped herb. Instead, a franchise created from scratch would be more likely to lean into real-world African spirituality, especially if it was created by someone who was, you know, actually African.

I also suspect it wouldn't be called Black Panther, since not only is the whole "Black hero named Black something" old-fashioned, but there are no panthers in Africa. Perhaps Ingonyama, Ingwe, or Tau.

Visually, there's an artist on Deviantart I revisit every once in a while who has a great Afrofuturist aesthetic:

https://www.deviantart.com/mshindo9/...alth-340623939

Our own Flex Hectic knows him, I believe.

Melanistic leopards (panthers) do exist in the rainforest of Africa, Gessela is the name of the ones in several of the languages of Ethiopia. Also camera traps have spotted them in other parts of the continent.

[Ezyo1000]

If Civil War T'Challa is apparently closer to his comic book counterpart, how come that movie never even implies that he's a super genius and inventor on the level of Tony Stark? Isn't that what the entire complaint is because you feel Shuri was given that?

Do you guys just want bragging rights or can we just accept that T'Challa being an inventor which MCU Shuri is, really isn't his defining trait? Even Civil War shows that T'Challa had a team investigating his father's death, not himself. That's a constant in how T'Challa has been written since Priest.

T'Challa's genius has always been at its most interesting when he's outsmarting people in intellectual and political games of chess, and in combat, not bragging about his inventions. In all her genius Shuri never solves any of the film's major problems so I don't even know why this is such an issue.

It's like complaining about Batman not being shown to be an inventor when his genius has always been at its best when it's applied to detective work (and other members of the Bat-Family have been established to be smarter than him).

This is true. T'Challa dod show this in the movie version as well. Using orthodox and unorthodox practices ro get the job done. I also agree that some of his coolest moments in the comics is when he uses his super genius in surprising ways, like beating Ironman ms most advanced suit with Windex, or disabling a forcefield by throwing his daggers at them Which will scramble the frequency, or frying thanos brain with the wreckage of his cell. Other stuff is cool, but I don't need to see him in a lab hence why I was okay with in the sequel him designing updates to the habit and handing the schematics to Shuri to make in short notice because he had other business to attend to, while referencing improvement on thing's that already work perfectly. It's an easy way to establish both as super geniuses while letting Shuri keep her niche.

But yeah T'Challas always best with his on the fly tech with the tools he has on his person or things around him not like Reed designing the ex machina

[XPac]

Yea a live action BP D+ series set in the MCU is gonna have a bunch of constraints and difficulties, which we've discussed a bit. Hence my preference for an animated series that can exist independent of the movie continuity and be it's own thing. Unlikely given how even Disney's Marvel animated properties try to line up with the movies, but speaking as someone who REALLY wants T'Challa I'm down for anything.

Because there is certainly the possibility that they truly decide to remove T'Challa until the inevitable MCU reboot in many years, meaning the character wouldn't be leading in any projects save maybe the comics. So I'd settle for an animated project (however unlikely) that gives us a comic accurate version of T'Challa so fans who won't get to see the character in live action can see him in a medium other than comics.

Back when marvel had seperate divisions for tv and movies, we had plenty of cartoons that obviously existed independent of the MCU continuity.

Now that they are all under Fieges banner, I'm not certain that's the case anymore. I sort of get the feeling they are at least trying to have everything line up. That said, I certainly wouldn't be against material outside of the MCU continuity as long as it's good. Admitted a lot of the MCU cartoons have been on the hit and miss side. I dare say they've gotten worse since falling under Disneys banner (which is sort of ironic since Disney is arguable the greatest aninmation company in history).

Maybe in the least they can put out some animated movies which can take place within MCU continuity prior to Avengers Infinity War. Maybe we could see stuff like Caps Secret Avengers post CIvil War working with Black Panther in Wakanda... that sort of stuff. It's a way to sneak Steve and T'Challa into stuff and still have it "count" without conflicting with the movie stuff That could be fun. They can still be used to tie into MCU stuff with Zemo or Namor or whatever in an indirect manner at least.

[Ezyo1000]

If Black Panther had been created in the 21st Century, what do you think the franchise would be like? What would change and what would stay the same? What would be added and what would be removed?

Name would change (Priest created the Red Lion which is evil T'Challa but the animal is native to Africa) he would either be just The Panther or have a different animal moniker altogether. Like Digi and cville Said the HSH would likely go away and the mantle would be separated from the head of state, like Priests run where they are two different titles but they would enforce that you cannot be the ruler and BP. Challenge day would go away and instead probably be like Priest version where they go through trials to ensure they are the best. The DM and HZ would have different roles and likely integrated more like the US with both opened up to both genders. HZ would be like the SEALs and the DM would be the secret service.
Wakanda would drop the Xenophobic angle and been established to when colonization started, they would of resisted those influences and been more active in protecting africa. Bot preventing those things but heavily reducing their reach. And I think Wakanda would be. A republic

[Ezyo1000]

Back when marvel had seperate divisions for tv and movies, we had plenty of cartoons that obviously existed independent of the MCU continuity.

Now that they are all under Fieges banner, I'm not certain that's the case anymore. I sort of get the feeling they are at least trying to have everything line up. That said, I certainly wouldn't be against material outside of the MCU continuity as long as it's good. Admitted a lot of the MCU cartoons have been on the hit and miss side. I dare say they've gotten worse since falling under Disneys banner (which is sort of ironic since Disney is arguable the greatest aninmation company in history).

Maybe in the least they can put out some animated movies which can take place within MCU continuity prior to Avengers Infinity War. Maybe we could see stuff like Caps Secret Avengers post CIvil War working with Black Panther in Wakanda... that sort of stuff. It's a way to sneak Steve and T'Challa into stuff and still have it "count" without conflicting with the movie stuff That could be fun. They can still be used to tie into MCU stuff with Zemo or Namor or whatever in an indirect manner at least.

IDGAF how they do it, T'Challa should NOT be gone from the MCU. That's all that matters. He needs to continue to have a presence since his franchise is still in it's infancy stage in the MCU.

[Chesterfield]

If Civil War T'Challa is apparently closer to his comic book counterpart, how come that movie never even implies that he's a super genius and inventor on the level of Tony Stark?

The solo movie establishes that T'Challa's Civil War costume is his design and apparently "old tech" as Shuri calls it. Yet, in Civil War, when T'Challa follows and stalks Cap, Bucky and Tony to the bunker in Siberia, Tony's suit fails to identify and pick up T'Challa's heat signature. Also, T'Challa's jet isn't picked up on radar by Tony whilst in the Quinjet and after he suits up and flies out of it.

Even Civil War shows that T'Challa had a team investigating his father's death, not himself. That's a constant in how T'Challa has been written since Priest.

This was a good touch. Royalty, especially African royalty bring their squad when attending most places, especially an engagement such as why King T'Chaka was in Vienna in the first place. Before T'Challa's going to suit up and start hunting down his father's killer, members of his entourage who are obviously security specialists will conduct their intel under his direction, which was alluded to when T'Challa spoke with Nat about finding Barnes himself and as heard by one of his people when Nat was about to get her wig snatched by Ayo.

[Chesterfield]

He also spent the majority of the movie chasing the wrong guy and only found out Bucky wasn't responsible for his father's death after hearing Zemo's confession.

That doesn't make him stupid though. With the information available and with what Bucky was recognised as being up to that point, a super villainous fugitive, and how he was behaving, T'Challa would have to be God to have known the truth. T'Challa's a smart guy but he's still only a human.

[XPac]

That doesn't make him stupid though. With the information available and with what Bucky was recognised as being up to that point, a super villainous fugitive, and how he was behaving, T'Challa would have to be God to have known the truth. T'Challa's a smart guy but he's still only a human.

Yeah, there was a character arch there which needed to be accomplished.

Certainly he was somewhat blinded by vengeance, as arguably anyone might be in his shoes. But the important thing isn't that he was consumed by vengeance but rather that in the end he was able to put that aside and do what he needed to do. Considering Civil War wasn't actually HIS movie, they actually gave him a good amount of material there to work with, and I think that really made him a pretty compelling character in the moderate amount of screen time he got.

I think the thing to remember is that this was a BP we have never seen before. Comic BP is an experiened ruler who lost his father decades ago. The MCU version isn't going to be quite as near perfect as his comic book counterpart is at least right out of the gate. It's a journey to get there, and this was just the start.