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  1. #8791
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    What Marvel should've done from the beginning is show T'Challa and Shuri have different scientific focuses. She's the engineer/computer expert, which makes her great for gadgets and infrastructure, but T'Challa can be the guy for more multiversal/interdimensional stuff. Then stuff like botany and medicine can be something they both do depending on who has time.

    That way while Shuri can be responsible for energy daggers, T'Challa can be the inventor of Shadow Physics. Then maybe with the Techno-Organic Jungle they collaborated over the years. Maybe we'll see that delineation in the future but I doubt it and it frankly was a very bad decision not to do so in the first film.
    Yeah I feel as though the plan of only slightly mentioning T'Challas super Genius by having him design how CW habit was a mistake. I would of actually made a point to atleast establish that T'Challa designed alot of things prior to Shuri. Big stuff like infrastructure, shields cloaking technology etc. Big stuff designed to protect Wakanda and it's people, or military might, should fall onto T'Challa. The other stuff could fall to Shuri. But I don't think it makes sense that Shuri would be designing military and protection tech when the protector and dude the franchise is about is capable of doing that, especially since before the movie he wasn't king yet

  2. #8792
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    I always felt giving Shuri magical powers and all that was saying "we don't think she's good enough on her own." Same with a code name.

    Here is something I'd pitch (and I know no one would go for). Shuri should be the Wakandan Reed Richards to T'Challa's Tony Stark. her lab should be the most dangerous place in the country and no one should ever go in there without her escorting them or with prober safeties in play.

    I would give her the JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY book were she leads a team of Wakandan scientists and adventurers on Challengers of the Unknown-style missions, ENTIRELY separate from the crap her brother gets up to. She'd have her own villains, her own mysteries her own adventures and then sit down to family dinners where she and T'Challa try to top each other with cool stories.

    Shuri is fine. She just needs a writer who gives a shit.
    I can get behind that, I don't need T'Challa to be the smartest in the world, hell in terms of straight science jargon Shuri could be smarter or atleast spends more time doing that. T'Challa simply needs to be able to keep up with what she is saying while providing his own theories etc. But at the same time, when he walks in a room he is the shrewdest person there. His genius goes into to big planning, long game, a grandmaster chess player.

    Again my only issue with the MCU isn't that Shuri IS a super genius, but rather that T'Challas genius is being stunted or pushed back. If banner can be a genius and hulk out then T'Challa can be the most dangerous man alive stacked with his genius as well

  3. #8793
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    If Shuri is going to thrive as a secondary IP I don't think it it hurts to give her a legitimate superhero name. "Princess Shuri" may be marketable as is, but it's still just her name, she needs her "Nightwing" or "Batgirl" to fully signal she's not just a princess but an independent hero in her own right. The least they could do is "Princess Shuri: Sapphire Crow" (if we're working with the current version).
    I just don't think she needs a legitimate Superhero name. Marketing her as just "Shuri" seems to have worked fine for her. There are a few characters that can get by without a real codename and I feel Shuri is one of them, especially for the kind of character she is and the role she serves in the mythos/stories.

  4. #8794
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    I always felt giving Shuri magical powers and all that was saying "we don't think she's good enough on her own." Same with a code name.

    Here is something I'd pitch (and I know no one would go for). Shuri should be the Wakandan Reed Richards to T'Challa's Tony Stark. her lab should be the most dangerous place in the country and no one should ever go in there without her escorting them or with prober safeties in play.

    I would give her the JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY book were she leads a team of Wakandan scientists and adventurers on Challengers of the Unknown-style missions, ENTIRELY separate from the crap her brother gets up to. She'd have her own villains, her own mysteries her own adventures and then sit down to family dinners where she and T'Challa try to top each other with cool stories.

    Shuri is fine. She just needs a writer who gives a shit.
    That was my basic idea for the Princess Shuri & the PRIDE idea I floated a while back. It'd be an ensemble but with her as the lead, going on high-octane sci-fi adventures with other young Wakandans like Vibraxas, Queen Divine Justice, and Muti. Something with a tone similar to Batgirl, aiming for that YA audience. Shuri's a great character for that type of direction and I think she'd succeed with someone like you or Eve Ewing at the helm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I just don't think she needs a legitimate Superhero name. Marketing her as just "Shuri" seems to have worked fine for her. There are a few characters that can get by without a real codename and I feel Shuri is one of them, especially for the kind of character she is and the role she serves in the mythos/stories.
    It's not like a huge thing for me, but it'd be nice if she had a codename or tagline that was more than just princess (though I'd like it under certain circumstances). I don't think it's saying "she's not good enough" but that she's carved out her own niche and going forward with her own brand of heroism. She'd still be called Shuri in regular conversation but I don't think having a formal superhero name hurts or confuses the audience, it only signals her independence. Though I agree since she'll likely always be in that amorphous late teens-early 20s age range I guess a superhero ID isn't absolutely necessary.

  5. #8795
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    You know marvel frak up when Mike getting frustrated
    So true lol!!!

    On the other hand, it's kinda telling when nobody is asking neither TNC nor Marvel editorial for a response to the absence of TNCs BP book.....because if this book was truely as popular as they claim, both Marvel editorial a d TNC would have given an update announcement months ago.


    Either way, Marvel should be doing something....likes release a couple of BP event mini series for example BP vs Marvel Zombies or something.

    It's becoming aggravatingly annoying at this point.....anyway, at least Jason Aaaron has BP kicking sweet @$$ in incredulously awesometacular fashion in the recent Avengers issues better and more memorable than the entirety of TNCs BP series.

  6. #8796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Besouro View Post
    So true lol!!!

    On the other hand, it's kinda telling when nobody is asking neither TNC nor Marvel editorial for a response to the absence of TNCs BP book.....because if this book was truely as popular as they claim, both Marvel editorial a d TNC would have given an update announcement months ago.


    Either way, Marvel should be doing something....likes release a couple of BP event mini series for example BP vs Marvel Zombies or something.

    It's becoming aggravatingly annoying at this point.....anyway, at least Jason Aaaron has BP kicking sweet @$$ in incredulously awesometacular fashion in the recent Avengers issues better and more memorable than the entirety of TNCs BP series.
    I'd personally dig a futuristic take on Black Panther in the vein of Marvel 2099, but better than last year's attempt at a Marvel 2099 relaunch. I mean, if Black Panther is the pinnacle of Afrofuturism in comics, then why not take that even further with a Black Panther in or from the actual future? Maybe set it in 2077, or even a vague "20XX" if Marvel wants to separate it from Marvel 2099.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #8797
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    I always felt giving Shuri magical powers and all that was saying "we don't think she's good enough on her own." Same with a code name.
    I think it was more a desire to distinguish her from T'Challa. Personality-wise, they were very different (and the change pretty much did a 180 with her personality), but I think they wanted to avoid "female Black Panther." Even Wakanda's answer to Tony Stark is an approach different from what came before, so the motivation seems the same even if the approach is different.
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  8. #8798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    I think it was more a desire to distinguish her from T'Challa. Personality-wise, they were very different (and the change pretty much did a 180 with her personality), but I think they wanted to avoid "female Black Panther." Even Wakanda's answer to Tony Stark is an approach different from what came before, so the motivation seems the same even if the approach is different.
    I agree entirely. Shuri going in the Griot direction is basically the equivalent of T'Challa using alchemy and gaining King of the Dead powers when he was no longer on the throne. Everyone knows that Wakanda is a fusion of impossibly advanced technology and ancient mysticism so it makes sense to have the two most popular characters from the mythos embody both sides of that.

    T'Challa as king, the guy dealing with espionage and supertech, while Shuri focuses on magic and the mysteries of the gods. That direction failed because of Coates' poor implementation and because the MCU cut the legs off any future writer getting the chance to iron out all the kinks.

    Though I disagree that there was a substantial difference in personality between the two, which is another issue with the Shuri character. By the time Hickman got ahold of her she was basically T'Challa-lite, but more bloodthirsty and less informed lol. Most writers probably would've probably preferred to use her brother so more often than not they gave her the same stoic personality that T'Challa was known for, but with a hint of hotheadedness to represent her youth. Her solo series was a different story but in outside appearances she was very much just "female T'Challa but not as good".

    Her only real distinguishing feature was her Wakanda First mentality which pretty much means nothing now that she's back in a supporting role, where damn near everyone around T'Challa has the same perspective. I'd actually argue that aspect of her character unnecessarily holds her back. Coates tends to give every Wakandan the same voice but Shuri and T'Challa are virtually the same character in his run, Shuri just uses magic and is more competent lol. Thankfully, the MCU is forcing a distinction to be made slowly but surely.

  9. #8799
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    So I finally got around to roughing this tribal panther mask out yesterday. Took longer than I wanted to get around to this because I rearranged my work area and then finished up a pendant for my wife.
    This is only my 5th of 6th stone carving, and it is not done, so be gentle. I'm not sure what kind of stone. I'm thinking chert, which is flint, with a little quartz vein running through. The ears are off quite a bit from the movie mask due to using a post movie product for my line art and not having complete facility with the little stone bandsaw I just started using.
    I'm going to make the teeth from the mask out of sterling silver. Metalsmithing is also relatively new to me.
    20201026_083910.jpg
    Last edited by MouserGrey; 10-26-2020 at 08:14 AM.
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  10. #8800
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    Reality is for those who are afraid of science fiction.

  11. #8801
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    Roughly 3/4
    20201026_083918.jpg
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  12. #8802
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MouserGrey View Post
    So I finally got around to roughing this tribal panther mask out yesterday. Took longer than I wanted to get around to this because I rearranged my work area and then finished up a pendant for my wife.
    This is only my 5th of 6th stone carving, and it is not done, so be gentle. I'm not sure what kind of stone. I'm thinking chest, which is flint, with a little quartz vein running through. The ears are off quite a bit from the movie mask due to using a post movie product for my line art and not having complete facility with the little stone bandsaw I just started using.
    I'm going to make the teeth from the mask out of sterling silver. Metalsmithing is also relatively new to me.
    20201026_083910.jpg
    Dude, you did this out of stone. That alone is awesome!

  13. #8803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Dude, you did this out of stone. That alone is awesome!
    Stone is hard! Literally and figuratively. I cut my chops sculpting decades ago at a design studio where we used primarily jewelers wax or automotive clay to make prototypes for companies like Disney and Warner Brothers. Voth are much softer and more forgiving than stone. More like modeling than sculpting or carving.Got burnt way out as it's taken 20 years or me to become creative again. Can't believe I chose stone!? My goal is carving gemstones, thus the relatively hard chert (flint). So I'm learning metalsmithing at the same time.
    Reality is for those who are afraid of science fiction.

  14. #8804
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MouserGrey View Post
    Stone is hard! Literally and figuratively. I cut my chops sculpting decades ago at a design studio where we used primarily jewelers wax or automotive clay to make prototypes for companies like Disney and Warner Brothers. Voth are much softer and more forgiving than stone. More like modeling than sculpting or carving.Got burnt way out as it's taken 20 years or me to become creative again. Can't believe I chose stone!? My goal is carving gemstones, thus the relatively hard chert (flint). So I'm learning metalsmithing at the same time.
    And I thought papar was hard . Man, that is very creative and skilled. Awesome work bro.

  15. #8805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    And I thought papar was hard . Man, that is very creative and skilled. Awesome work bro.
    Thank you. But, paper is hard. Drawing has more rules. You have to take into account that when drawing a person is transferring a 3d subject into a 2d subject. I am better at drawing than the average person, but compared to people like Muad dib I'm a toddler. Plus, I was blessed with natural talent as a sculpter.
    I have had this conversation many times with many different types of people. Most would get a better sense of accomplishment buying some modeling clay over drawing. I say this because one of my degrees was art education and, although I never got my license to teach, experience and "the rules" for drawing compared to modeling or carving for children and adults are much easier for 3d representation. The illustrators I worked with were amazing. Not only could they draw with perspective, they could produce blueprint like line art for us sculptors to use for our projects. Nothing but respect for those that can whip out a drawing in minutes. An incredible skill.
    Reality is for those who are afraid of science fiction.

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