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  1. #5311
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Oh interesting, you don't think they already had one in the pipeline since Marvel knew way in advance Coates was leaving?

    I wonder if Coates is going to continue to write Cap and get any other new books?

    I'll be honest, when he was first announced I 100% thought this was some stunt casting and didn't think Coates would be on the title this long - I thought 6 issues tops.
    I’m just guessing. Maybe they did have a replacement but the industry shutting down because of Covid messed their plans up? The other unpleasant idea is that Marvel was simply going to end the Black Panther ongoing after Coates left, no relaunch or replacement.

  2. #5312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chesterfield View Post
    Thoughts on this analysis?

    https://youtu.be/mgamEWj3tO8
    I think it's well made and makes sense. Thanks for sharing.

  3. #5313
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    Why has Marvel not published the remaining BP issues?

    There is, as always, only one reason:
    $$$

    Don't forget how utterly poorly the book was selling. They may just solicit one last collection and call it a loss.

    And I can see easily see editorial canceling the book at letting the character rest a bit (until the movie comes out). After all, the character CLEARLY doesn't sell (and it SURELY can't be because they keep giving projects to amateurs and Pals Of Coates :P ).

  4. #5314
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekie View Post
    My point is that we need things set in stone. Sure there will be bad writers as there always have been but there's too much secrecy around this character and not enough consistency. we are the most knowledgeable group of black panther fans on the planet and we still don't even know what his power level is as we've been arguing about it for the last ten pages. So if we don't know then we certainly can't expect casual fans to know nor can we expect game developers or other media to know. It's hard to sell what you don't know. I bet none of us can guess what type of black panther we're going to get in the New Avengers video game? That's a problem to me
    I think we have a rough idea of where his power level is at, and that's probably enough. He's probably above Daredevil, around Cap, and below Spiderman. It how he's consistently written for the most part. He gets a bit of variation, but so does everyone else.

    Even if they have an EXACT number as far as how much he could bench press like the old handbooks did, we'd likely still get inconsistency. A rough average is the best we can hope for.

  5. #5315
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    It's insane that they just won't publish it. I can't understand why not at this point.
    Covid and the effect its having on comic book stores is probably effecting them and this business model in ways we don't see. I don't get it either, but it just a weird time.

  6. #5316
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Probably still don’t have a replacement writer lined up.
    I mean, I'm sure the original plan was they finish his run, do the Empyre mini, and then launch something after. Maybe that's the reason? They were expecting a mini to fill the gap but don't have that, so they're delaying the last issue so they can do a new launch immediately after (in which case, we would see it solicited at the end of Empyre). Doesn't make a ton of sense, but I don't have a better idea. Either way, there's a gap.
    Matt Murdock's cooler twin brother

    I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
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  7. #5317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    I mean, I'm sure the original plan was they finish his run, do the Empyre mini, and then launch something after. Maybe that's the reason? They were expecting a mini to fill the gap but don't have that, so they're delaying the last issue so they can do a new launch immediately after (in which case, we would see it solicited at the end of Empyre). Doesn't make a ton of sense, but I don't have a better idea. Either way, there's a gap.
    The Empyre mini was a followup to AGENTS OF WAKANDA. It has no connection to the ongoing.

  8. #5318
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Why has Marvel not published the remaining BP issues?

    There is, as always, only one reason:
    $$$

    Don't forget how utterly poorly the book was selling. They may just solicit one last collection and call it a loss.

    And I can see easily see editorial canceling the book at letting the character rest a bit (until the movie comes out). After all, the character CLEARLY doesn't sell (and it SURELY can't be because they keep giving projects to amateurs and Pals Of Coates :P ).
    Could you imagine the possibility, if Coates came correct, a harsh lense on political power and government, but treated Wakanda and BP with respect? Yes they aren't perfect, but they are a beacon of hope for the rest of the world, they are carving the way to be better, abd he could actually write action and set pacing?

    The first few issues sold really well, and if he was targeting BP fans and trying to get people excited for this badass African king, instead of the verbal asspats from literary 'intellectuals' who give zero fraks about the character, and actually told engaging stories, focusing on things that many of us fans wanted to see. This could of been huge and set T'Challa on a new plateau, especially coupled with leading the avenger's (ultimates had potential to that was killed unfortunately as well) plus the cartoon, and the movie?? Isht man this was so much lightning in a bottle set up for a grand slam, and it was whiffed.... Hard

  9. #5319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    The first few issues sold really well, and if he was targeting BP fans and trying to get people excited for this badass African king, instead of the verbal asspats from literary 'intellectuals' who give zero fraks about the character, and actually told engaging stories, focusing on things that many of us fans wanted to see.
    First issues ALWAYS sell well. And the hype in "literary" circles punched that boost even higher. But those levels were unsustainable. Even Star Wars, which has legions of fans and nostalgia on it's side, couldn't support its initial sales numbers.

    The question is not whether a new book can make big numbers. It's always whether it can KEEP them. And Coates proved more than once that he doesn't have the writing chops to maintain reader interest for more than a couple of issues. (Part of me wonders how much of the sales on his trade are folks who just leave it on the coffee table to show how "woke" they are, but never actually read it.)

  10. #5320
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Why has Marvel not published the remaining BP issues?

    There is, as always, only one reason:
    $$$

    Don't forget how utterly poorly the book was selling. They may just solicit one last collection and call it a loss.

    And I can see easily see editorial canceling the book at letting the character rest a bit (until the movie comes out). After all, the character CLEARLY doesn't sell (and it SURELY can't be because they keep giving projects to amateurs and Pals Of Coates :P ).
    If I was Disney I would FIRE the first person to suggest that on the spot.

    You are only a few issues from Black Panther #200.

    You have Panther stuff coming out in other media and merchandise. The worst you can do is stop the floppies if you are not tossing out an OGN or a trade.

    "Out of sight out of mind" is what you have to avoid. Because you don't know what others have planned.

  11. #5321
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    If I was Disney I would FIRE the first person to suggest that on the spot.

    You are only a few issues from Black Panther #200.

    You have Panther stuff coming out in other media and merchandise. The worst you can do is stop the floppies if you are not tossing out an OGN or a trade.

    "Out of sight out of mind" is what you have to avoid. Because you don't know what others have planned.
    OTOH, if they timed it so that issue #200 came out the same time as the movie, some bean-counter might think it worth the wait.

  12. #5322
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    OTOH, if they timed it so that issue #200 came out the same time as the movie, some bean-counter might think it worth the wait.
    With Covid though, who the hell knows when BP2 will even start filming? I don’t want to wait years for another BP series.

  13. #5323
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    First issues ALWAYS sell well. And the hype in "literary" circles punched that boost even higher. But those levels were unsustainable. Even Star Wars, which has legions of fans and nostalgia on it's side, couldn't support its initial sales numbers.

    The question is not whether a new book can make big numbers. It's always whether it can KEEP them. And Coates proved more than once that he doesn't have the writing chops to maintain reader interest for more than a couple of issues. (Part of me wonders how much of the sales on his trade are folks who just leave it on the coffee table to show how "woke" they are, but never actually read it.)
    I forget where he ended up after the 12th issue, but I honestly think T'Challa can maintain 40k sales with a good writer in this day and age now that he is alot more popular. But I agree, putting Coates, a comic writing neophyte, on the biggest Black super hero, coming off the biggest event at the time, getting another Solo after years of not having, one, off cw hype, and on the 50 year anniversary.. with zero oversight from editorial abd free reign to do whatever he wanted and grab whomever, was the biggest mistake and disservice to the character and
    possibly shattered whatever chance of T'Challa actually hitting that big cadence to ensure that he only gets the best writers and top talent on his ongoings. That's what pisses e off the most. That some guy who clearly gives zero fraks, was allowed to ruin so much hype and good will and marvel greenlit it

  14. #5324
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    OTOH, if they timed it so that issue #200 came out the same time as the movie, some bean-counter might think it worth the wait.
    Whoever that bean counter that thinks that needs to be escorted out the office.

    Who is going wait 2 (or now more years for that)?

    That is BEGGING to be forgotten.

    If that is the case we need halt MS Marvel's book and wait for the tv show-she's due to hit 74 and bypass Cassandra Cain as the longest running Asian female with a title in December.

    So should Miles have his book held up until Into the Spiderverse 2 (which some artists are working on now) is ready and then start up 11 months before it appears? Since those 11 issues would represent the remaining issues he needs to hit 100.

    NO you don't wait.

    A BIGGER payday is not issue 200 when the movie comes out. The bigger pay day is to ALREADY have hit issue 200 before then. IF BP 2 is slated for 2022 and you start a new series in Jan 2021. BP #225 should be ready to come out.

    If Marvel was smart a Shang Chi book needs to be out before his film (or show comes out) He's what less than 50 away from 200 club himself? Like Carol Danvers is?

    You don't wait. You do everything you can to embarrass your Distinguishing Competition. Who act like black folks can' sell.

  15. #5325
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Whoever that bean counter that thinks that needs to be escorted out the office.

    Who is going wait 2 (or now more years for that)?

    That is BEGGING to be forgotten.

    If that is the case we need halt MS Marvel's book and wait for the tv show-she's due to hit 74 and bypass Cassandra Cain as the longest running Asian female with a title in December.

    So should Miles have his book held up until Into the Spiderverse 2 (which some artists are working on now) is ready and then start up 11 months before it appears? Since those 11 issues would represent the remaining issues he needs to hit 100.

    NO you don't wait.

    A BIGGER payday is not issue 200 when the movie comes out. The bigger pay day is to ALREADY have hit issue 200 before then. IF BP 2 is slated for 2022 and you start a new series in Jan 2021. BP #225 should be ready to come out.

    If Marvel was smart a Shang Chi book needs to be out before his film (or show comes out) He's what less than 50 away from 200 club himself? Like Carol Danvers is?

    You don't wait. You do everything you can to embarrass your Distinguishing Competition. Who act like black folks can' sell.
    If Marvel Comics marketing was smart, they wouldn't be still using the same playbook that almost drove them to bankruptcy 25 years ago. But instead... bring on the Events™ and cover gimmicks!

    Oh, and cheesy cover variants promoting a Wednesday release date.

    To give you an idea how messed up this thing is... they canceled a bunch of Empyre tie-ins and the event is going on without hiccup... which means the tie-ins were completely unnecessary padding to grab more money. But they release a checklist implying every issue is important to the story:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comm...re_0_avengers/ suddenly became https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/..._CHECKLIST.jpg

    Oh, and Shang-Chi IS getting a series. Of course, the first solicited issue has a cover where he's using a Japanese weapon, but hey, all those countries are the same, right?

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