Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Besouro]

yeah I guess Atlanteans don't like Wakandans now, or maybe it was just that bartender.

But that last page was a big uh oh.


I hope. I really really hope we don't get an AvX repeat. I've been warning you all about this. Some of these writters just want to see Wakanda be invaded and get wrekt. Can we go back to the days of Hudlin or Priest or Secret Invasion, heck even Avengers EMH. Wakanda never fell.

It would be truly and stupendously out of character if Tchalla has not devised 2 or 3 contingencies against the Phoenix force by now after what happened.

For goodness sake, Tchalla had the time stone for a fairly long duration before the whole Infinity Wars thing....and we still don't know what he did with it while it was in his possession.- - - *SUPERB OPPORRUNITY RIGHT HERE!!!!*

[Cville]

My proposal can do just fine with any version Shuri so far.

You mentioned about one them going to be redundant... How?

I mentioned clearly in my proposal that Shuri takes over leadership royalty duties in Wakanda when Tchalla is on mission or preoccupied elsewhere (AoW, Avengers, Congress of Worlds, Intergalactic Empire of Wakanda/ IEW, etc) and if Shuri is also unavailable then the council of tribal elders spearheaded by the Queen mother become custodians of the thrown/leadership till either Shuri and/or Tchalla return or delegate otherwise.

Because if the solo book is about Tchalla, why would whatever Shuri does while he is gone be important? Unless its to help set up the plot for him later. And if they try to make Shuri really good at the job, why would Tchalla need to take over once he returns? She essential lives and dies by whatever he is doing in the book. We see in Coates' book what happens when you try to give everybody agency. The lead character suffers. During Hudlin, Shuri was the definition of a support character. Unless what she was doing was designed to move the plot, she wasn't seen. Im not a big Shuri fan, but I would't want her to go back to that role. She's developed too much for that.

[Jabare]

It would be truly and stupendously out of character if Tchalla has not devised 2 or 3 contingencies against the Phoenix force by now after what happened.

For goodness sake, Tchalla had the time stone for a fairly long duration before the whole Infinity Wars thing....and we still don't know what he did with it while it was in his possession.- - - *SUPERB OPPORRUNITY RIGHT HERE!!!!*

nah that makes too much sense. At least he's written competently in Avengers which seems to do a pretty decent job representing it's characters (unless you talk to She-Hulk fans)

[Ichijinijisanji]

nah that makes too much sense. At least he's written competently in Avengers which seems to do a pretty decent job representing it's characters (unless you talk to She-Hulk fans)

or carol fans, or robbie reyes fans, or thor fans

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Saw this on reddit.

Curious to hear DBoi's thoughts on this. Crazy that this film just had 72 days and wasnt able to get the lighting it wanted.

“I had the naive expectation that once you get to that level nobody says ‘no., that there’s this endless supply of time and money. I learned pretty quickly that couldn’t be further from the truth. We were actually stretched pretty thin. A lot of the money went into the design elements. Next thing you know there’s not quite enough money to light the set. But it’s the difference between begging for one extra SkyPanel [on a small budget movie] and begging for an extra 50.”

Considering the movie’s box office success, Marvel will probably toss in a few more SkyPanels for the sequel.

Morrison: Black Panther was actually quite quick by Marvel standards. It was something like 72 days, where most of their films are well over 100 days. The biggest adjustment was that we shot 10-hour days (instead of the standard 12-hour days). It was tricky for me as a DP, but amazing as a mom. I went from barely seeing my son at all throughout Mudbound to actually getting home in time to tuck him into bed at night on Black Panther because of the 10-hour day, which I’m now a huge proponent of. Marvel’s reasoning is that they have such extensive costume and make-up work that by the time you get everybody disrobed and made-down for lunch and then make them back up after lunch, you’ve lost two hours anyway and you lose momentum. So their ideology was to just work straight through. That’s challenging at times because you don’t have your lunch break to reassess or make a new plan, but it was really incredible as a human being.

Morrison: Panavision wasn’t ready for us [to test the Millennium DXL]. It was just before they felt like they would have enough production support. So the day of our test they said “Sorry, we just can’t pull it off.” But we tested just about everything else. We tested IMAX, spherical 35mm, anamorphic 35mm, spherical Alexa, anamorphic Alexa, Red 8K and the Alexa 65. I think Ryan and I, as much as we dreamt of shooting on film, probably knew on some level that it just wasn’t a reality for this type of movie.

Filmmaker: Just because of the VFX component?

Morrison: Well, really what it came down to was the scheduling of it. You’re so down to the wire with the deliverables, partly because Marvel backs into their release dates. When you originate on film, if you change a VFX shot out, which happens all the time, you have to go back to the original negative and rescan that shot at a higher resolution than any of your dailies would’ve been at. There’s just not time on the back-end for that. In retrospect, I understand that now having been through the post process. We were changing things down to the night before the movie was delivered. Maybe even hours before the movie was delivered.

Filmmaker: So why not the Alexa 65?

Morrison: That was really a Ryan choice. I actually think that camera gives you a beautiful and lush image, but Ryan didn’t want that shallow depth of field look. He wanted you to be able to see the patterns in the costumes, to see the detail in the production design. He wanted those details to feel tangible and not have everything sort of fall off into the implied world. It was a similar reason for not shooting anamorphic. I love anamorphic and have used it on a lot of films. Ryan hadn’t shot anamorphic before and he just felt like with so many other firsts on Black Panther, he wanted to go with spherical lenses because he really understands those optics and how certain lenses make you feel. I felt like I should defer to him on that rather than try to pressure him into something he wasn’t comfortable with. And plenty of beautiful movies have been shot spherical on the Alexa.



https://filmmakermagazine.com/104990.../#.XmfGsahKjIU

I wonder if they let Coogler shoot on film for the sequel.

[Ezyo1000]

I want T'Challa to be treated as the shrewdest man alive, world's greatest poker face while exuberanting his greatest super power of all that most people seem to forget: the power to make people underestimate him.

[XPac]

I want T'Challa to be treated as the shrewdest man alive, world's greatest poker face while exuberanting his greatest super power of all that most people seem to forget: the power to make people underestimate him.

I think that was the element of the character which was hurt the most once they upgraded his gear to near Iron Man levels. It's easy to underestimate a guy who merely appears to be an acrobat in a cat suit. Much harder to logically do that against a guy wearing a cat themed Iron Man suit from the most advanced nation on earth. If you're underestimating him at this point, you're just stupid.

[Ezyo1000]

I think that was the element of the character which was hurt the most once they upgraded his gear to near Iron Man levels. It's easy to underestimate a guy who merely appears to be an acrobat in a cat suit. Much harder to logically do that against a guy wearing a cat themed Iron Man suit from the most advanced nation on earth. If you're underestimating him at this point, you're just stupid.

Not really, JA had strange underestimate him on Avengers when they were underground investigating the cosmic bugs, Priest had IM do it even after he prepared a suit specifically designed to counter him, Hudlin had Natasha and Tony do it in CW arc, JA had the super skrull do it in SWaD, liss had Kingpin do it, McDuffie had the silver surfer do it. Ewing had Galactus and the monitors or whatever their names were in ultimates etc. Just because someone has advanced tech doesn't mean they cant be underestimated still it's very easy to do.

So no I don't subscribe to the idea that inorder for him to be underestimated he has to lose something

[XPac]

Not really, JA had strange underestimate him on Avengers when they were underground investigating the cosmic bugs, Priest had IM do it even after he prepared a suit specifically designed to counter him, Hudlin had Natasha and Tony do it in CW arc, JA had the super skrull do it in SWaD, liss had Kingpin do it, McDuffie had the silver surfer do it. Ewing had Galactus and the monitors or whatever their names were in ultimates etc. Just because someone has advanced tech doesn't mean they cant be underestimated still it's very easy to do.

So no I don't subscribe to the idea that inorder for him to be underestimated he has to lose something

Priest level BP gear I can buy people underestimating... in fact Priest book made it a point to explain why T'Challa doesn't wear armor like Iron Man does (a point which was clearly retconned by armor wearing T'Challas in later runs). It's when he's wearing armor man level gear where underestimating him stops making sense. As I've said a couple times, even freaking Aunt Man potentially is a reasonable threat to someone in hand to hand combat wearing force push armor. You don't even have to know how to fight to fight in that at least until you're facing a moderately powerful brick.

Galactus underestimating T'Challa I can buy, because of his power level and the relative lack of familiarity with T'Challa. But if it's Iron Man or Natasha, then it's just writing them badly. Its having the characters underestimate him purely so they can have the characters underestimate him, even if it doesn't make sense for them to do that. Really that should be saved for villains who aren't familiar with him (a list which should be getting smaller and smaller as his star is rising) or villains vastly more powerful than him. Any else that does it is just being written as stupid at this point.

But as far as T'Challa losing anything... the genie is out of the bottle to the point where him losing anything won't make sense. He's more of an Iron Man character now, like it or not. So it's less likely he'll be written as a person constantly underestimated when you're walking around with that sort of gear. It just wouldn't make sense.

[Ezyo1000]

Priest level BP gear I can buy people underestimating... in fact Priest book made it a point to explain why T'Challa doesn't wear armor like Iron Man does (a point which was clearly retconned by armor wearing T'Challas in later runs). It's when he's wearing armor man level gear where underestimating him stops making sense. As I've said a couple times, even freaking Aunt Man potentially is a reasonable threat to someone in hand to hand combat wearing force push armor. You don't even have to know how to fight to fight in that at least until you're facing a moderately powerful brick.

Galactus underestimating T'Challa I can buy, because of his power level and the relative lack of familiarity with T'Challa. But if it's Iron Man or Natasha, then it's just writing them badly. Its having the characters underestimate him purely so they can have the characters underestimate him, even if it doesn't make sense for them to do that. Really that should be saved for villains who aren't familiar with him (a list which should be getting smaller and smaller as his star is rising) or villains vastly more powerful than him. Any else that does it is just being written as stupid at this point.

But as far as T'Challa losing anything... the genie is out of the bottle to the point where him losing anything won't make sense. He's more of an Iron Man character now, like it or not. So it's less likely he'll be written as a person constantly underestimated when you're walking around with that sort of gear. It just wouldn't make sense.

Having advanced tech doesn't make you a capable fighter. Your aunt may comparison doesn't work for the simple fact that first she wouldn't know how to use it, second it doesn't automatically teach someone how to fight. Sure she won't get gunned down with it but anybody who knows how to fight would drop her. Plus Priest gear was actually pretty advanced just as much as the force push. You seem to have this idea that the force push is leaps and bounds greater then what priest gave him. It's not.

And no its not writing Tony or Natasha poorly for underestimating him. They are very confident in their abilities and thought they took precautions and he proved he was still thinking ahead.

So your assessment is off and really it's just you trying to downplay T'Challa. That would also be like saying it's writing characters badly if T'Challa out preps them because they should know that is what he does. Again see Tony prepping for tchalla and he still was surprised, or better yet, take Redjacks "The last Avenger" episode in how he can still ve underestimated despite knowing what he is capable of.. unless your saying everyone was written stupid there as well

[XPac]

Having advanced tech doesn't make you a capable fighter. Your aunt may comparison doesn't work for the simple fact that first she wouldn't know how to use it, second it doesn't automatically teach someone how to fight. Sure she won't get gunned down with it but anybody who knows how to fight would drop her. Plus Priest gear was actually pretty advanced just as much as the force push. You seem to have this idea that the force push is leaps and bounds greater then what priest gave him. It's not.

And no its not writing Tony or Natasha poorly for underestimating him. They are very confident in their abilities and thought they took precautions and he proved he was still thinking ahead.

So your assessment is off and really it's just you trying to downplay T'Challa. That would also be like saying it's writing characters badly if T'Challa out preps them because they should know that is what he does. Again see Tony prepping for tchalla and he still was surprised, or better yet, take Redjacks "The last Avenger" episode in how he can still ve underestimated despite knowing what he is capable of.. unless your saying everyone was written stupid there as well

And I'm not downplaying T'Challa... I'm simply arguing that the better his gear is, the less it makes sense to underestimate him. When you go from an acrobat in a cat suit to a guy wearing Iron Man level armor, you're going to be underestimated a whole lot less. That's just common sense. Why wouldn't a person be less likely to underestimate a guy carrying around more powerful gear?

When you have a more streamlined T'Challa (which I personally prefer), you can play the "underestimating him" card more readily. Raising the power level of a character inherently effects the way he should be written and perceived. To not do that is bad writng.

You mention Redjack... and he (like Priest) didn't write the character wearing Iron Man level gear. And that's sort of my point. I prefer the character written to where the man is emphasized over the gear, and skill is not replaced by tech.

[Redjack]

Having advanced tech doesn't make you a capable fighter. Your aunt may comparison doesn't work for the simple fact that first she wouldn't know how to use it, second it doesn't automatically teach someone how to fight. Sure she won't get gunned down with it but anybody who knows how to fight would drop her. Plus Priest gear was actually pretty advanced just as much as the force push. You seem to have this idea that the force push is leaps and bounds greater then what priest gave him. It's not.

And no its not writing Tony or Natasha poorly for underestimating him. They are very confident in their abilities and thought they took precautions and he proved he was still thinking ahead.

So your assessment is off and really it's just you trying to downplay T'Challa. That would also be like saying it's writing characters badly if T'Challa out preps them because they should know that is what he does. Again see Tony prepping for tchalla and he still was surprised, or better yet, take Redjacks "The last Avenger" episode in how he can still ve underestimated despite knowing what he is capable of.. unless your saying everyone was written stupid there as well

T'Challa is the finest tactician on Earth. Period. No one else even comes close. that's his real genius. Hand-to-hand or driving armies, he is the FINEST TACTICIAN on the planet.

[Cville]

Priest wrote him as being underestimated because many people would have had the Ross conception of the character, but thanks to Hudlin, people have a fuller understanding of the man. Now he's into being shrewd and people like Gorilla Man saying he scares the s*it out of me. Or younger heroes being star struck like in the Amadeus book.

[XPac]

Priest wrote him as being underestimated because many people would have had the Ross conception of the character, but thanks to Hudlin, people have a fuller understanding of the man. Now he's into being shrewd and people like Gorilla Man saying he scares the s*it out of me. Or younger heroes being star struck like in the Amadeus book.

Hudlins BP was actually fairly low on tech too. Half the time I frankly wasn't even sure he was wearing a vibranium suit... I don't think it was explictly pointed out until the fight with Killmonger. So I can buy people underestimating his version of BP too up to a point at least early on.

But I do agree by Hudlins run people had more understanding of the man they were up against. He gained greater respect (and in some circles greater fear)... and with that came a lessening of people underestimating him. Like Captain America or Batman it doesn't matter how powerful you are... it just matters that they're that dam good, powers be damned. Like Enyo1000 I like the fact that he's underestimated... but writing him that way makes less and less sense as time goes on.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Priest wrote him as being underestimated because many people would have had the Ross conception of the character, but thanks to Hudlin, people have a fuller understanding of the man. Now he's into being shrewd and people like Gorilla Man saying he scares the s*it out of me. Or younger heroes being star struck like in the Amadeus book.

In all fairness, Ross' POV was for the laymen of the MU.

The likes of Dr. Doom, Kraven, magneto et all, none of them regarded T'Challa as anything less than capable. Even Nightshade came at T'Challa prepared