Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ezyo1000]

Oh, one more thing before I vanish again.

This is The Hero's Journey, in it's simplest form:



It doesn't say a damn thing about what the hero wants. It does talk a hell of a lot about death & rebirth, tho.

Digi comes on with the knowledge bomb again. Using this diagram its clear where you can see how the movie falls into those points on the circle. Nice as always Digi

[Mekk80s]

Man I cant stand these clickbait videos and news forums, which is why ive been dodging them. It's nothing but speculation and clickbait and no one has the slightest idea what the move is regarding the mcu so everything else is massive speculation. No BP no MCU, I'm late to the party.

[taozen]

He is not the protagonist just because he gets better development than the average MCU villain. Again, if we take your logic at face value, every villain with a revenge story and sympathetically-framed death is the protagonist. Yes, Killmonger is a well-written character. No, he is not better developed than T'Challa and secretly the protagonist of the film.

Okay I hear you. Which character do you believe drives the story forward? T'Challa or Eric?

[Ezyo1000]

Okay I hear you. Which character do you believe drives the story forward? T'Challa or Eric?

Clearly T'Challa. Everything revolves around him. He goes after Klaw which leads to Erik coming to save klaw which leads to him finding out the truth about his father and eriks origin etc etc. A good villain will also help drive the story but T'Challa is in the drivers seat

[taozen]

Clearly T'Challa. Everything revolves around him. He goes after Klaw which leads to Erik coming to save klaw which leads to him finding out the truth about his father and eriks origin etc etc. A good villain will also help drive the story but T'Challa is in the drivers seat

And who manipulated Klaw? What causes T'Challa to go after Klaw? The stealing of the vibranium artifact that we see Eric identify and initiate in the robbery. Eric is manipulating Klaw the entire time. T'Challa is reacting to all of Eric's moves, motivations and manipulations.

[DigiCom]

I'd actually ask a different question.

A protagonist isn't the character who "drives the story forward". Often, it's the story that drives the character forward.

In fact, the driving force of a story often isn't a character at all. It's an item, or an event. A statue of a bird, some electronic station plans, or a golden box created by former slaves. Or even a purple rock that was hidden in a metal orb.

At the end of the day, stories are about how people learn, develop and change. How they overcome obstacles and find fulfillment.

Killmonger grew up consumed by grief & resentment, took the throne due to the same grief & resentment, and died still carrying that grief & resentment. His strongest character hook was that he wanted others to suffer the way he has, and went to his grave without understanding how wrong that was. There was no growth at all.

That's not the protagonist. That's the ANTAGONIST.

[Blind Wedjat]

This is like saying the Ten Rings are the protagonist of Iron Man, because it's them that attack Tony's convoy, which leads to the shrapnel in his heart, being abducted, meeting Yinsen, learning the truth about his weapons and choosing to escape.

Half of y'all don't realise these criticisms you reiterate are NITPICKS.

[taozen]

I'd actually ask a different question.

A protagonist isn't the character who "drives the story forward". Often, it's the story that drives the character forward.

In fact, the driving force of a story often isn't a character at all. It's an item, or an event. A statue of a bird, some electronic station plans, or a golden box created by former slaves. Or even a purple rock that was hidden in a metal orb.

At the end of the day, stories are about how people learn, develop and change. How they overcome obstacles and find fulfillment.

Killmonger grew up consumed by grief & resentment, took the throne due to the same grief & resentment, and died still carrying that grief & resentment. His strongest character hook was that he wanted others to suffer the way he has, and went to his grave without understanding how wrong that was. There was no growth at all.

That's not the protagonist. That's the ANTAGONIST.

Killmonger does get taken down because he will not adapt. T'Challa does offer him peaceful resolutions to end the conflict and he chose not to accept them. The movie is also about systematic oppression and trauma. Imagine what Eric could have achieved if he grew up in Wakanda. That will and determination in an environment that fosters growth and excellence. The protagonist does not have to be the hero of the story. My argument and point, which I brought up to push a discussion, is whether or not Killmonger is pushing the story forward and T'Challa is reacting to him the entire film.

I learned in a writing class that in script writing the protagonist typically wants something and the antagonist places obstacles in the way to keep the them from getting what they want. It reminds me of an article on 10 things needed to create a great protagonist. A lot of the following examples do apply to Eric. That is one of the reasons why he makes such a compelling villain.

1. She has a problem that needs solving
2. He has the ability to act
3. She has reasons to act
4. He has something to lose
5. She has something to gain
6. He has the capacity to change
7. She has a compelling quality
8. He has an interesting flaw
9. She has a secret
10. He has someone or something interesting trying to stop him

[taozen]

This is like saying the Ten Rings are the protagonist of Iron Man, because it's them that attack Tony's convoy, which leads to the shrapnel in his heart, being abducted, meeting Yinsen, learning the truth about his weapons and choosing to escape.

Half of y'all don't realise these criticisms you reiterate are NITPICKS.

The good ol' "McGuffin." At least we are discussing something a bit interesting considering it has been so long since we have had a good Black Panther comic to talk about. That is the sad part. What was the last great or even very good Black Panther story?

[taozen]

Has BP been compelling in any book in the last few years? I like Jason Aaron's writing but having BP and Cap on the same team limits BP use in my opinion. I picked up the first 4 issues of the Agents of Wakanda series but I am kind of meh about it. Does the story get better? I am not a fan of Coates BP. I have so many sitting on a shelf waiting to be read.

[taozen]

I did enjoy Cornell's portrayal of BP in terms how it shows his ability to analyse combat styles. Plus BP gets the W.

[Ezyo1000]

And who manipulated Klaw? What causes T'Challa to go after Klaw? The stealing of the vibranium artifact that we see Eric identify and initiate in the robbery. Eric is manipulating Klaw the entire time. T'Challa is reacting to all of Eric's moves, motivations and manipulations.

Erik and Klaw steal the vibranium, Klaw goes to sell it, Erik disappears, T'Challa learns klaw has reappeared, he captures klaw, Erik has to save him, T'Challa learns about Erik and the truth about his family's secrets. The. Erik shows up. There wasn't as much manipulation on Erik's part or reacting on T'Challas part as you think.

[Ezyo1000]

Killmonger does get taken down because he will not adapt. T'Challa does offer him peaceful resolutions to end the conflict and he chose not to accept them. The movie is also about systematic oppression and trauma. Imagine what Eric could have achieved if he grew up in Wakanda. That will and determination in an environment that fosters growth and excellence. The protagonist does not have to be the hero of the story. My argument and point, which I brought up to push a discussion, is whether or not Killmonger is pushing the story forward and T'Challa is reacting to him the entire film.

I learned in a writing class that in script writing the protagonist typically wants something and the antagonist places obstacles in the way to keep the them from getting what they want. It reminds me of an article on 10 things needed to create a great protagonist. A lot of the following examples do apply to Eric. That is one of the reasons why he makes such a compelling villain.

1. She has a problem that needs solving
2. He has the ability to act
3. She has reasons to act
4. He has something to lose
5. She has something to gain
6. He has the capacity to change
7. She has a compelling quality
8. He has an interesting flaw
9. She has a secret
10. He has someone or something interesting trying to stop him

You do see that those 10 items for both T'Challa and
Erik right? Also you do realize that the whole purpose of T'Challa and Erik isn't simply Erik is "evil T'Challa" per se, but rather what happens when two men suffer the loss of their fathers, how they react to their anger and what happens if one let's go of it or gets consumed by it. They are contrasting each other while also being somewhat the same. Also if Erik grew up in Wakanda he would likely be VERY different as what pushes him to work so hard is the fact that he had nothing and was abandoned in a place that alone in poverty with racism around him hoping that this wonderful place he heard stories of would remember him. But if he grew up In Wakanda he very well easily could of had the same exact mindset of T'Chaka. Being a traditionalist

[Cville]

Has BP been compelling in any book in the last few years? I like Jason Aaron's writing but having BP and Cap on the same team limits BP use in my opinion. I picked up the first 4 issues of the Agents of Wakanda series but I am kind of meh about it. Does the story get better? I am not a fan of Coates BP. I have so many sitting on a shelf waiting to be read.

BP vs DP is good. I liked Ghost Panther too.

[XPac]

I did enjoy Cornell's portrayal of BP in terms how it shows his ability to analyse combat styles. Plus BP gets the W.

And he got the win in Logans own book. Granted Logan wasn't at 100% but still... not a lot of guys can say that.