Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ezyo1000]

Hudlin talked about his plans? Do you have a link or anything, I would love to know more.

Yeah, heres the link. Some of us posters here posted in it

http://hudlinentertainment.com/smf/i...?topic=14594.0

[Ezyo1000]

At the risk of pissing off people here, black men do indeed get a bad rap from society and media, but that's no reason to be dumping on attempts at uplifting black girls and women. Granted, those attempts shouldn't also come at the expense of black boys and men, though I frankly blame that on certain (kinds of) people trying to divide black people and set them against each other so they can't present a unified front against the many faces and facets of racism in our society. Dismissing that as just "pandering to feminists" or whatever plays into the division those people want to create in the black community, and make no mistake --- they want us divided. Black men against black women, black women against black men . . . that won't be solved by downing on black female achievement or denigrating black male excellence, but making room for black women and men to be excellent and achieve together, to complement each other's strengths and compensate for each other's weaknesses. That is what we should be striving toward as a community.

It's like I have said many times before and one of the bigger issues with Coates run. He puts Black men vs black women. Instead of having them shown as both equally powerful he instead dumps on black men in favor of Black women. And when something gets it right and shows equality ,(BP solo) we see the people come out the wood work wanting to cannibalize the success instead of building on it for both. Its very frustrating because it doesn't fix the root problem and instead continues the cycle over and over

[taozen]

It's like I have said many times before and one of the bigger issues with Coates run. He puts Black men vs black women. Instead of having them shown as both equally powerful he instead dumps on black men in favor of Black women. And when something gets it right and shows equality ,(BP solo) we see the people come out the wood work wanting to cannibalize the success instead of building on it for both. Its very frustrating because it doesn't fix the root problem and instead continues the cycle over and over

I believe that Coates saw the lack of female superheroes and wanted to make them a major part of his story. Also in interviews he said that he did not like the way Priest used the Doras. So it seems that female empowerment and representation became prominent for him. He is new to writing fiction and comics is one of the most difficult genres to write well. As a result his version of empowering the females characters comes with making the men villains (rape camps in rural Wakanda) or not as competent. You can see a bit of this style of writing males in the Supergirl tv show. Now I have only read a couple of issues of his Space saga thus far so I do not know if his story telling has improved. I have them but they are not high on my to read list but I will get to it eventually.

[Cville]

Excerpt from the Shuri novel.

https://www.scribd.com/document/4557...rpt#from_embed

First paragraph was off putting, I dont thing Tchalla would talk like that in any situation. This might be the biggest blending of stories since RotBP. Lol. I think I'll skip it though.

The rest of the preview wasn't much better, writing wasn't but I feel her description of the roll of women was a missed opportunity. She fell into the grove Coates likes to use.

[Ezyo1000]

I believe that Coates saw the lack of female superheroes and wanted to make them a major part of his story. Also in interviews he said that he did not like the way Priest used the Doras. So it seems that female empowerment and representation became prominent for him. He is new to writing fiction and comics is one of the most difficult genres to write well. As a result his version of empowering the females characters comes with making the men villains (rape camps in rural Wakanda) or not as competent. You can see a bit of this style of writing males in the Supergirl tv show. Now I have only read a couple of issues of his Space saga thus far so I do not know if his story telling has improved. I have them but they are not high on my to read list but I will get to it eventually.

Coates clearly missed what Priest was getting at. Abd I remember in those interviews (basically why his stories went the route they went of ishtting on men) that he said no man could help themselves and not abuse the system. Also I wouldn't call the DM heroes. And as for supporting cast, BP has one of the largest female casts in the Comics.

And female empowerment wasn't his only drive. When he first did interviews all he did was go on about what he didn't like about the mythos or understand about it, and it took him his fourth interview to finally saw what he DID like about T'Challa. And his way of doing empowerment actually just made everyone in Wakanda and Wakanda itself look bad. I could of come up with a better premise for why they were rebelling and not made everyone look like fools in the process..

His space saga is better than his other seasons (not saying Much) but still has the same issues that plagued the others. By the way they only reason this season is better is simply because of the art.

[Ezyo1000]

First paragraph was off putting, I dont thing Tchalla would talk like that in any situation. This might be the biggest blending of stories since RotBP. Lol. I think I'll skip it though.

The rest of the preview wasn't much better, writing wasn't but I feel her description of the roll of women was a missed opportunity. She fell into the grove Coates likes to use.

It reminds me of that Marvel action Black panther mini Series that got cancelled. T'Challa on that series was so out of character and.. dumb and completely incompetent that it makes you cringe.

[XPac]

I believe that Coates saw the lack of female superheroes and wanted to make them a major part of his story. Also in interviews he said that he did not like the way Priest used the Doras. So it seems that female empowerment and representation became prominent for him. He is new to writing fiction and comics is one of the most difficult genres to write well. As a result his version of empowering the females characters comes with making the men villains (rape camps in rural Wakanda) or not as competent. You can see a bit of this style of writing males in the Supergirl tv show. Now I have only read a couple of issues of his Space saga thus far so I do not know if his story telling has improved. I have them but they are not high on my to read list but I will get to it eventually.

As far as Priests version of the Doras are concerned... there's a reason in the MCU they aren't potrayed as 16 year old brides in training. I think Marvel studios realized that as cool as the Doras are conceptually, there are elements best left out of the equation. Coates having them break away from all of that permanently just makes life easier moving foreward.

But even more importantly, I think he made them real characters again. Under Priest they had actual names and characterization. Post Priest they weren't real characters... just red shirts, albeit high end red shirts. Now at least a few of them have actual names and histories and motivations and relationships. And he brought back Oyoke to the comics, who was writen out of the BP books post Priest for seemingly no reason whatsoever.

So overall the female side of things is in good shape, which I think was the point. Both in the comics and in the movies, no character has a bigger more active female supporting cast than T'Challa.

[The Cool Thatguy]

As far as Priests version of the Doras are concerned... there's a reason in the MCU they aren't potrayed as 16 year old brides in training. I think Marvel studios realized that as cool as the Doras are conceptually, there are elements best left out of the equation. Coates having them break away from all of that permanently just makes life easier moving foreward.

But even more importantly, I think he made them real characters again. Under Priest they had actual names and characterization. Post Priest they weren't real characters... just red shirts, albeit high end red shirts. Now at least a few of them have actual names and histories and motivations and relationships. And he brought back Oyoke to the comics, who was writen out of the BP books post Priest for seemingly no reason whatsoever.

So overall the female side of things is in good shape, which I think was the point. Both in the comics and in the movies, no character has a bigger more active female supporting cast than T'Challa.

In fairness, there were all of 3 Dora under him, and he took pains to emphasize that it was a tradition that had been revived vs. something that had always been around, we just hadn't seen.

Leave it to later writers to ignore all that, sigh...

[dkrook]

In fairness, there were all of 3 Dora under him, and he took pains to emphasize that it was a tradition that had been revived vs. something that had always been around, we just hadn't seen.

Leave it to later writers to ignore all that, sigh...

I'm screaming at my phone as I was reading the post stream!! Thank you for pointing this out Priest didn't write some kind of male chauvinist Panther book. T'challa was respectful and honorable towards the Dora that were in his presence. If Coates was so concerned about the amount of presence of black women in a comic then he shouldn't have used BP to make that statement. Ask to write The REAL Captain Marvel, or Storm.

[dkrook]

No, it was a mistake on Marvel for not letting Hudlin finish his story and giving it to Mayberry. Hudlins version would of ended with the most Savage beating deservedly handed by T'Challa and then 4segued into a BP centric event. World war Wakanda.

Lol, I would loved to be at the office when the blood drains out of their faces when the top guys got word Hudlins plans would end with Doom catching a glorious "L". The amount of pants crapping must have allowed Hudlin to be so entertained on his way out the door.

[XPac]

In fairness, there were all of 3 Dora under him, and he took pains to emphasize that it was a tradition that had been revived vs. something that had always been around, we just hadn't seen.

Leave it to later writers to ignore all that, sigh...

The fact that it was gone prior to T'Challa but brought back under his watch because he needed 16 year old girls to act as political pawns to keep the peace between villages doesn't exactly do him any favors either. It's nice that he doesn't take advantage of the underage minors sexually... but that doesn't mean it necessarily is doing him any favors regardless. Removing that element from the comics (and flat out not existing in the MCU at all) was the way to go IMO.

That said, once they retcon the Doras to being a literally army of various women at different ages rather than just 3 teenage girls we then ask ourselves whether or not this basically has been around the whole time or not.

[XPac]

Lol, I would loved to be at the office when the blood drains out of their faces when the top guys got word Hudlins plans would end with Doom catching a glorious "L". The amount of pants crapping must have allowed Hudlin to be so entertained on his way out the door.

I honestly don't think it would have mattered. In the same rough window of time Doom got his butt kicked by Thor and was brain damaged in Loebs Hulk books. He was being used in like 6 stories at once, and frankly taking a lot of L's due to his over exposure. For whatever reason everyone was using Doom at that point.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The fact that it was gone prior to T'Challa but brought back under his watch because he needed 16 year old girls to act as political pawns to keep the peace between villages doesn't exactly do him any favors either. It's nice that he doesn't take advantage of the underage minors sexually... but that doesn't mean it necessarily is doing him any favors regardless. Removing that element from the comics (and flat out not existing in the MCU at all) was the way to go IMO.

That said, once they retcon the Doras to being a literally army of various women at different ages rather than just 3 teenage girls we then ask ourselves whether or not this basically has been around the whole time or not.

It was never meant to do him any favors. Read the issues, whenever it's addressed. No one really likes it, T'Challa included.

But that's politics. I blame later writers for being unable to make the effort to make anything else

[XPac]

It was never meant to do him any favors. Read the issues, whenever it's addressed. No one really likes it, T'Challa included.

But that's politics. I blame later writers for being unable to make the effort to make anything else

The fact that it isn't doing him any favors is why I'm glad it's gone. Instead of using teenage girls to try and maintain political peace, do it the same way everyone else is doing it. If other politicians can do it, presumably the leaders of the most technologically and spiritually advanced near utopian nation on the planet can too.

Not that it didn't lead to some interesting stuff... but ultimately I think the mythos is just better off without it. We don't need to see Boseman sharing the screen with 16 year old girls.

[Ezyo1000]

It's funny how. Coates focused on the whole "Well IF a man wanted to, he could take advantage of the situation, and I can't see any man NOT taking advantage of it" it shows a few things. One he doesn't understand Wakanda and why it's people are exceptional. Two he doesn't understand the reason for why Priest had it in place and explained it the way he did. Third, Hudlin had T'Challa say it best when his mother asked him why he didn't just marry a Dora. Because it turns reliable asset into a liability. So he understood and changed the role in his book to even more clearly iterate that the DM were essentially the king's right and left hands.

Ironically enough, for all of his complaining about it, it's actually Coates who has his created past BP (I forget his name) say in the meeting with T'Challa that if he was going to call him then he should allow him to bring his consorts (plural) inferring he had nkre then one. So while Priest and Hudlin make it clear that T'Challa doesn't do that and none of the previous rulers in their rubs have been shown or Said to have done that Coates does it in his book.. what does thst say about him?