Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[XPac]

It's funny how. Coates focused on the whole "Well IF a man wanted to, he could take advantage of the situation, and I can't see any man NOT taking advantage of it" it shows a few things. One he doesn't understand Wakanda and why it's people are exceptional. Two he doesn't understand the reason for why Priest had it in place and explained it the way he did. Third, Hudlin had T'Challa say it best when his mother asked him why he didn't just marry a Dora. Because it turns reliable asset into a liability. So he understood and changed the role in his book to even more clearly iterate that the DM were essentially the king's right and left hands.

Ironically enough, for all of his complaining about it, it's actually Coates who has his created past BP (I forget his name) say in the meeting with T'Challa that if he was going to call him then he should allow him to bring his consorts (plural) inferring he had nkre then one. So while Priest and Hudlin make it clear that T'Challa doesn't do that and none of the previous rulers in their rubs have been shown or Said to have done that Coates does it in his book.. what does thst say about him?

The fact that they needed Doras at all brings into question just how exceptional they claim to be.

Any way you slice it, it's a black eye on Wakanda because it frankly was designed to be. The only reason the concept of teenage brides/body guards stuck around as long as it did was because it visually cool, as T'Challa needed either. Hell, you can argue when he fought Doom they actually got in the way. At best, they dealt with red shirts that T'Challa was too busy to dispatch with himself.

Once they were expanded to be more an army than just 2 body guards, it actually did make more sense in a fuctional capacity... but it also didn't quite make sense that there was an army in the first place if this supposedly was new. So Maeberrys retcon had its ups and downs.

Either way, glad the MCU side stepped all of it and simply made them adult female soldiers. It just works better that way.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The fact that it isn't doing him any favors is why I'm glad it's gone. Instead of using teenage girls to try and maintain political peace, do it the same way everyone else is doing it. If other politicians can do it, presumably the leaders of the most technologically and spiritually advanced near utopian nation on the planet can too.

Not that it didn't lead to some interesting stuff... but ultimately I think the mythos is just better off without it. We don't need to see Boseman sharing the screen with 16 year old girls.

When you say how others deal with making political peace, who is the everyone else?

China?

United States?

New Zealand?

Russia?

Egypt?

Israel?

[XPac]

When you say how others deal with making political peace, who is the everyone else?

China?

United States?

New Zealand?

Russia?

Egypt?

Israel?

Pretty much every nation has had to put political systems into place to maintain political peace. And because of that most are beyond the point of worrying about open warfare. Point being they all got to that point without relying on using 16 year old girls.

Really, does Wakanda even need it? When Shuri became Black Panther, there didn't seem to be any sort of need to enlist 16 year old boys to maintain things. Either it was done off panel, or Shuri flat out didn't need it.

[dkrook]

It's funny how. Coates focused on the whole "Well IF a man wanted to, he could take advantage of the situation, and I can't see any man NOT taking advantage of it" it shows a few things. One he doesn't understand Wakanda and why it's people are exceptional. Two he doesn't understand the reason for why Priest had it in place and explained it the way he did. Third, Hudlin had T'Challa say it best when his mother asked him why he didn't just marry a Dora. Because it turns reliable asset into a liability. So he understood and changed the role in his book to even more clearly iterate that the DM were essentially the king's right and left hands.

Ironically enough, for all of his complaining about it, it's actually Coates who has his created past BP (I forget his name) say in the meeting with T'Challa that if he was going to call him then he should allow him to bring his consorts (plural) inferring he had nkre then one. So while Priest and Hudlin make it clear that T'Challa doesn't do that and none of the previous rulers in their rubs have been shown or Said to have done that Coates does it in his book.. what does thst say about him?

Quite simply that he was agenda fishing. You actually see from his execution that he really drew from his line of thought of a patriarchy being a construct of absolute corruption. His non-comic writing had this thought interwoven in it. He put it in BP.

[XPac]

Quite simply that he was agenda fishing. You actually see from his execution that he really drew from his line of thought of a patriarchy being a construct of absolute corruption. His non-comic writing had this thought interwoven in it. He put it in BP.

I think it's possible he might have found the Dora thing a tad less misogynistic if there were male Doras.

If you had Shuri having a bunch of 16 year old buys as his grooms in training, you could at least say there's nothing sexist about it. It's still a bit messed up, but they're treating the genders at least equally. But if this is something they only do for teenage girls and not boys then you can argue there's a double standard there.

Course, it's entirely possible Shuri did have grooms in training and we just didn't see it. Who knows.

[FLEX HECTIC]

A novel, a comic, a movie and a video game is separate genres even if they all use the same characters!


Then again if you also make toys for kids to play with do you have them in the sandbox saying "look mommy I'm a Dora, a wife in training"


A detailed novel or comic written exceptionally well could explain this but a cinematic movie or other visual medium might struggle to pull it off successfully without a hitch!


The Metoo movement might derail such ideas just on general principal...


Besides, Black Panther really only needs the bare minimal of cast members to set it off regardless!


Even things like a real to life Bast pose an Odin problem like a dead Luke Skywalker or Yoda still moving things in the material world as if they could technically still join the fight and actively participate!


The years before Black Panther made his MCU debut there were already questions about the title name being controversial so who needs to spend eons explaining to other potential fans what exactly a wife in training is!


Afrofuturistic Technology... Fine sign everybody up!


Unconquered uncolonized country... Deal me in!


Wives in Training... Yep, suck all the air out of the room and prepare for a millennia of arguments you don't need to have and keep it moving!


So with any project what headaches do you want to have moving forward that could easily be retconned for greener pastures!


What is actually worth it in the Black Panther franchise as a whole and what is not?


How many elephants in the room do you want to weigh down this intellectual property when most fans just want PURE Black Panther and little else!


Black Panther should be plug n play and make it simpler for writers to jump on and off without burdens of baggage that other A-list characters don't even bother with!


Make Wakanda Great Again...

[Ezyo1000]

Pretty much every nation has had to put political systems into place to maintain political peace. And because of that most are beyond the point of worrying about open warfare. Point being they all got to that point without relying on using 16 year old girls.

Really, does Wakanda even need it? When Shuri became Black Panther, there didn't seem to be any sort of need to enlist 16 year old boys to maintain things. Either it was done off panel, or Shuri flat out didn't need it.

Right.. in order to maintain peace these other nations just used slavery, gender inequality, drugs, violence etc etc etc the list goes on in order to maintain the peace.

Coates was looking for something to be "Outraged" about
Hence why he went both feet into it. He really added a lot of(racist, dysfunctional, and all around negative) things to the mythos but couldn't be bothered to add anything positive. The positive things are either from stelfreeze's or the MCU (Okoye showing up literally out of nowhere) so it's clear what he was doing

[XPac]

Right.. in order to maintain peace these other nations just used slavery, gender inequality, drugs, violence etc etc etc the list goes on in order to maintain the peace.

Coates was looking for something to be "Outraged" about
Hence why he went both feet into it. He really added a lot of(racist, dysfunctional, and all around negative) things to the mythos but couldn't be bothered to add anything positive. The positive things are either from stelfreeze's or the MCU (Okoye showing up literally out of nowhere) so it's clear what he was doing

It's VERY true that other nations did many many questionable things in the past to maintain stability and peace. People can and should be critical of that too. It's using band aids over bullet wounds rather than taking the time to actually fix the things which are actually wrong.

But for whatever reason it was needed during T'Challa'a previous run, it wasn't in Shuri's or T'Challas current one. So Wakanda is seemingly moving in the right direction in this regard.

[Vordan]

Yeah, heres the link. Some of us posters here posted in it

http://hudlinentertainment.com/smf/i...?topic=14594.0

Thanks! Fascinating read, I’m always interested in reading about stuff that could’ve been.

[taozen]

Thanks! Fascinating read, I’m always interested in reading about stuff that could’ve been.

That World War Wakanda idea is just wonderful. If you think about it. A technologically advanced warrior culture that had never been conquer and had repelled every invasion would cause any potential enemy fear. How would they historically instill this fear in other nation throughout history? At times could they have gone to far to protect their nation. That is a story worth telling. Makes me think of these panels.





A modern country that does this to show its enemies what its capable of could or should bring about some conflict with their allies. To this day Jason Aaron's Secret Invasion is my favorite Panther story. Just how T'Challa is written as King, strategist and even head of their religion was so compelling.

[XPac]

That World War Wakanda idea is just wonderful. If you think about it. A technologically advanced warrior culture that had never been conquer and had repelled every invasion would cause any potential enemy fear. How would they historically instill this fear in other nation throughout history? At times could they have gone to far to protect their nation. That is a story worth telling. Makes me think of these panels.





A modern country that does this to show its enemies what its capable of could or should bring about some conflict with their allies. To this day Jason Aaron's Secret Invasion is my favorite Panther story. Just how T'Challa is written as King, strategist and even head of their religion was so compelling.

Though Priests was the best BP run overall, I would agree about See Wakanda and Die being the best single BP story. Aaron has his share of detractors, but I'd love for him to have a BP run someday.

We should be seeing Skrulls showing up on Wakanda's doorstep again pretty soon. Should be interesting to see how Round 2 is handled.

[MouserGrey]

It's funny how. Coates focused on the whole "Well IF a man wanted to, he could take advantage of the situation, and I can't see any man NOT taking advantage of it" it shows a few things. One he doesn't understand Wakanda and why it's people are exceptional. Two he doesn't understand the reason for why Priest had it in place and explained it the way he did. Third, Hudlin had T'Challa say it best when his mother asked him why he didn't just marry a Dora. Because it turns reliable asset into a liability. So he understood and changed the role in his book to even more clearly iterate that the DM were essentially the king's right and left hands.

Ironically enough, for all of his complaining about it, it's actually Coates who has his created past BP (I forget his name) say in the meeting with T'Challa that if he was going to call him then he should allow him to bring his consorts (plural) inferring he had nkre then one. So while Priest and Hudlin make it clear that T'Challa doesn't do that and none of the previous rulers in their rubs have been shown or Said to have done that Coates does it in his book.. what does thst say about him?

That he needs to get laid? (Coates, that is)

[MindofShadow]

That World War Wakanda idea is just wonderful. If you think about it. A technologically advanced warrior culture that had never been conquer and had repelled every invasion would cause any potential enemy fear. How would they historically instill this fear in other nation throughout history? At times could they have gone to far to protect their nation. That is a story worth telling. Makes me think of these panels.


A modern country that does this to show its enemies what its capable of could or should bring about some conflict with their allies. To this day Jason Aaron's Secret Invasion is my favorite Panther story. Just how T'Challa is written as King, strategist and even head of their religion was so compelling.

People always want Wakanda "clean." aka american/european/boring. Same laws, same "traditions" or whatever.

F that.

Give me advanced WARRIOR culture. Keep some of the "barbaric tribal" shit. Keep it unique. Stop trying to borify everything.

Give me the country that decides a the king by fighting near a waterfall with spears. Sign me up. Invade the country? Heads on a spike. Sounds great.

[XPac]

People always want Wakanda "clean." aka american/european/boring. Same laws, same "traditions" or whatever.

F that.

Give me advanced WARRIOR culture. Keep some of the "barbaric tribal" shit. Keep it unique. Stop trying to borify everything.

Give me the country that decides a the king by fighting near a waterfall with spears. Sign me up. Invade the country? Heads on a spike. Sounds great.

I think barbaric tribal is fine so long as it doesn't make them look stupid in the process.

Heads on spikes is fine. Deciding who leads the most powerful nation on the planet with a fighting tournament when two or three of the best fighters in the nation happen to be super villains is probably asking for trouble though. I think there's a line there where respect for tradition might and should give way to common sense.

[LastManStanding]

I think barbaric tribal is fine so long as it doesn't make them look stupid in the process.

Heads on spikes is fine. Deciding who leads the most powerful nation on the planet with a fighting tournament when two or three of the best fighters in the nation happen to be super villains is probably asking for trouble though. I think there's a line there where respect for tradition might and should give way to common sense.

Think of the Challenge Day System this way, it is a martial arts tournament strictly for Wakandans to forcibly and openly express dissent against the ruler of the country outside of the already established parliament system. So if a citizen cannot get redress from the civil democratic avenues he or she has the ultimate opportunity to change the regime on an appointed day.