Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Will Evans]

Because it's not about TChalla, it's never been about him to some people. It's about using his world as a spring board for their agenda because he's hot. Again if the roles were reversed, none of them would be clamoring for TChalla to show up on those movies. They would be clamoring for the best (or their favorite) stories to be adapted for those characters

With the exception of the F4, I agree

[XPac]

It SHOULD be about the character and developing their world, their supporting cast their villains and elevating said character to new heights, not trying to appease to fanboys who want to use another characters franchise to cater to their favorites who aren't apart of it when it makes zero sense

I agree it shouldn't be about appeasing fanboys. It should be about Coogler and Fiege telling their story. And if that means using some of BP rogues then great. But if that means pulling charactrs from other franchises, that's fine too. As long as we get a good movie, which characters he uses frankly doesn't matter. I like Achebe as much as the next guy, but I won't lose too much sleep if we never see a live action version of the character in my life time.

I think the problem is you're working on the assumption that Fiege or Coogler are choosing villains to appease fanboy. Since the last movie made a billion dollars, odds are pretty good they have enough confidence to make these decisions for themselves without imput from you, me or any of the perceived fanboys we are discussing. They'll use the characters they feel is right for the story they want to tell, and that will be that.

[XPac]

If it's up to Coogler as you claim... then why are you lobbying so hard to justify including characters who are BEST known in the franchise for destroying Wakanda?

I've heard a lot of people clamoring for retreads of DoomWar and AvX. But not ONE person talking about FF #52. Or Kiber Island. Or the bloody Supremacists.

Do people think Coogler is so creatively bankrupt that the only stories he can retell are the ones where Wakanda gets trashed?

Honestly I'm not lobbying that hard for anything. Honestly I don't care which villains Coogler uses at this point. The first movie used Klaw, M'Baku, and Killmonger.... the ones I perceived as the MUST USE antagonists. Outside of that, I think Coogler and Fiege are pretty much free to use whoever and it doesn't really matter that much. To me at least, and I imagine to MOST people.

Really, all I'm saying if IF Coogler and Fiege use Doom and/or Namor it won't be this big catastrophic thing people are making it out to be. Coogler and Fiege won't hijack the movie or the franchise or anything like that... they're merely telling the story they want with the characters they want. If we all agree that T'Challa and Wakanda for the most part were used well in the first movie, then I don't think we have anything to worry about even IF Doom and Namor show up.

And if they don't show up, obviously that's fine too.

[Chesterfield]

They need to get Viola Davis to do a Benedict Cumberbatch/Smaug/Necromancer and cast her as Bast.

[FLEX HECTIC]

I'm lobbying hard for Squirrel Girl to make her debut in Black Panther 2...


She could have a backstory where she was a squirrel that almost got stepped on by Thanos right as he "snapped" in Wakanda and the cosmic radiation mutated her along with some randomly sprayed sweat/blood (white woman DNA etc etc) from Black Widow as she was subdued and POOF!


Wait... Does Wakanda have squirrels?


"Google Search Powers Activate"


Ah yeah so it is plausible then...





Rocket Raccoon: "Psst, hey toots us rodents should stick together... Literally!"

Squirrel Girl: "Ew!"

King T'challa: "Rocket, raccoons are not actually classified as rodents they are of the..."

Rocket Raccoon: "Yo king of Wakanda stop blocking over here while I and the rest of the Marvel universe set up scene stealing camp in your now easily accessed country!"

[4sake Baned]

It SHOULD be about the character and developing their world, their supporting cast their villains and elevating said character to new heights, not trying to appease to fanboys who want to use another characters franchise to cater to their favorites who aren't apart of it when it makes zero sense

This I want to see QDJ, S’Yan, Bashenga, Moses Magnum, Bask, Princess Zanda & a version of the The Shadow Council forget Namor & Doom.

[Ezyo1000]

I agree it shouldn't be about appeasing fanboys. It should be about Coogler and Fiege telling their story. And if that means using some of BP rogues then great. But if that means pulling charactrs from other franchises, that's fine too. As long as we get a good movie, which characters he uses frankly doesn't matter. I like Achebe as much as the next guy, but I won't lose too much sleep if we never see a live action version of the character in my life time.

I think the problem is you're working on the assumption that Fiege or Coogler are choosing villains to appease fanboy. Since the last movie made a billion dollars, odds are pretty good they have enough confidence to make these decisions for themselves without imput from you, me or any of the perceived fanboys we are discussing. They'll use the characters they feel is right for the story they want to tell, and that will be that.

I'm working on the assumption that movie trilogies, or shared universes/ tv shows have been derailed by agenda's since the beginning of entertainment and bringing those characters into the mythos, in which BP has very few stories center around them and the ones that are were not made to prop up Wakanda, they don't need to be there. Yes they can do whatever they want I have already stated that my opinion or anyone's here doesn't matter, however, I don't see the reason why people are lobbying so hard to justify them showing up when there are plenty of rogues who could use some spotlight and have potential to tell better stories for BP then those two. Point is, TChalla so t so strapped for rogue's that they need to pull from outside franchises

[Mike_Murdock]

Achebe, Tetu, Zenzi, Queen Divine Justice can all be used in the sequel.

Honestly, I hadn't given much consideration to Queen Divine Justice before. I feel she would be an interesting character to think about in light of the last movie. She could be a kid in Oakland, for example. My only hesitation is whether she's too similar to the themes of the first movie with Killgrave. It almost would be better if she wasn't a Wakandan by birth.

[Huntsman Spider]

Honestly, I hadn't given much consideration to Queen Divine Justice before. I feel she would be an interesting character to think about in light of the last movie. She could be a kid in Oakland, for example. My only hesitation is whether she's too similar to the themes of the first movie with Killgrave. It almost would be better if she wasn't a Wakandan by birth.

Queen Divine Justice could definitely work as a way to refine and sharpen those same themes in the second Black Panther movie, as well as explore how Wakanda relates to the rest of the world, especially the African diaspora, now that it's revealed itself.

[chief12d]

Tbh if Marvel had to add another supporting cast member to the Black Panther films I'd rather it be a male like Vibraxas or Kasper. W'Kabi is likely to play a lesser role going forward (baring some kind of redemption arc where he sacrifices himself) and M'Baku doesn't seem like he'll be leaving the Jabari mountains too often. I think it'd be nice for T'Challa to have a brother in arms at his side when he's active in Wakanda or overseas. Kasper especially expands on the themes of the first film as a black dude in America who's also a cop.

[XPac]

I'm working on the assumption that movie trilogies, or shared universes/ tv shows have been derailed by agenda's since the beginning of entertainment and bringing those characters into the mythos, in which BP has very few stories center around them and the ones that are were not made to prop up Wakanda, they don't need to be there. Yes they can do whatever they want I have already stated that my opinion or anyone's here doesn't matter, however, I don't see the reason why people are lobbying so hard to justify them showing up when there are plenty of rogues who could use some spotlight and have potential to tell better stories for BP then those two. Point is, TChalla so t so strapped for rogue's that they need to pull from outside franchises

People lobby hard to see characters they like... that's just the nature of the medium. People are discussing them in a BP movie in this thread because it's a BP thread. If it were a Spider-Man thread, I'll wager people would be lobby to see characters they like showing up in the next Spider-Man movie. And despite the fact that Spider-Man has arguably the biggest and best supporting cast in marvel, it does have several non Spider-Man franchise characters in the past like Iron Man. Call that derailing if you want, but t's something that can happen in a marvel movie as this is a shared universe. But it's not the end of the world if it does. That's the point.

Coogler got oscar nominations for his marvel movie, while Fiege has pumped out two dozen critically/commercially sucessful MCU movies in a row. All I'm saying is they are deserving of the beneft of the doubt here. If they haven't really dropped the ball yet, no point in necessarly assuming it will happen on Cooglers watch.

[XPac]

Honestly, I hadn't given much consideration to Queen Divine Justice before. I feel she would be an interesting character to think about in light of the last movie. She could be a kid in Oakland, for example. My only hesitation is whether she's too similar to the themes of the first movie with Killgrave. It almost would be better if she wasn't a Wakandan by birth.

Having parallels to Killmonger can be a good thing though. She can sort of be Wakanda's redemption for what happeend to Killmonger. They can try and make it right with her. And I think seeing Wakanda through her eyes might be interesting.

That said, given Shuri is sort of a Wakandan teenage hero I do wonder if they would use QDJ. Not that the characters are THAT similar, but how many teenage girl heroes do they want. Unless maybe one gets their own Disney tV show or something.

[Cville]

Honestly, I hadn't given much consideration to Queen Divine Justice before. I feel she would be an interesting character to think about in light of the last movie. She could be a kid in Oakland, for example. My only hesitation is whether she's too similar to the themes of the first movie with Killgrave. It almost would be better if she wasn't a Wakandan by birth.

They could make her the child of a wardog couple who are agents like that show "The Americans", but the parents die before they can tell her she's Wakandan and BP or Nakia come to introduce her to the country.

[chief12d]

Accountability when one is possessed by the Phoenix can admittedly be a very murky subject... and that is especially true when the subject is Namor, who frankly can be argued is a mass murderer even when he's not possessed by the Phoenix.

When Jean first became Dark Phoenix, she murdered the planet of the Brocolli people. An entire planet was murdered. And when Scott was possessed, he was planning on destroying all of humanity. He didn't suceed, unlike Jean and Namor... but that was the plan. In both the case of Jean and Scott, I think it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt and blame it on Phoenix. But Namor on a given day can flood the surface world completely on his own so it's difficult to say where Namor ends and the Phoenix starts. Difficult to the point where I'm not sure he can fairly be held accountable simply because we'll never know for sure.

But I think at the end of the day, marvel wasn't planning on making Namor a villain so in all likelihood that was more Phoenix than Namor. If the idea was to turn him into an actual villain I'd agree with you... but as the plan seems to have him still be a hero afterwards, I'm doubtful the idea was that was all Namor. Again, just my interpretation.

And yes, Namor surrendering himself to justice would have been the right thing to do. Though I suspect if Namor was going to surrender himself it would be to Steve rather than T'Challa simply because he likely wouldn't feel like being executed anytime soon. But as so often happens in the comic book world, things turned out the way they needed to turn out. Namor was needed in the Illuminati since he was the ONLY person willing to actually do what needed to be done. Had Namor taken himself off the board, Wakanda and Atlantis might have been sparred a war but the 616 universe probably would have been destroyed in an incursion. So in the grand scheme of things, things worked out for the best. Comic book characters are lucky that way.

Phoenix Force possession being as murky and poorly defined as it is doesn't mean it completely absolves a character of the acts they committed. It brings out the worst in people and while it certainly deserves part of the blame for what Jean or Namor did, a piece of them (however small) wanted to do it or had no desire to stop it. Marvel's refusal to permanently define them by those actions doesn't exactly change the fact they did them and in Namor's case feels no regret. As you said, Namor's committed atrocious acts against civilians in the past and in most cases doesn't feel he's done anything wrong.

That being the case, he doesn't need to be a villain post-Secret Wars in an editorial sense for individual characters like T'Challa to perceive him that way and treat him as such, imo. He can get praised in one book but still be a wary entity to Black Panther. It's a shared universe and controversial figures like Namor won't ever gain the benefit of the doubt in everyone's mind.

But considering how their rivalry played out in a team book, justifiable revenge for Black Panther had to be avoided in order to serve the greater needs of the plot. I maintain that Namor could've died when T'Challa and Black Bolt jumped him and that the beef could've ended there. They'd worked together enough to develop respect for one another and with his death for the cheap shot he took in AvX they could put their problems to rest even if he came back after Secret Wars. I don't think it disregards T'Challa's restraint and heroism up until that point and I don't think if Namor had stayed dead there would've been much outcry. Hickman obviously chose another direction by pairing them up during Secret Wars and I accept that (and still like the event overall), but I think it was a massive missed opportunity for things not to come full circle.

[Ezyo1000]

Tbh if Marvel had to add another supporting cast member to the Black Panther films I'd rather it be a male like Vibraxas or Kasper. W'Kabi is likely to play a lesser role going forward (baring some kind of redemption arc where he sacrifices himself) and M'Baku doesn't seem like he'll be leaving the Jabari mountains too often. I think it'd be nice for T'Challa to have a brother in arms at his side when he's active in Wakanda or overseas. Kasper especially expands on the themes of the first film as a black dude in America who's also a cop.

I would be down with Kasper, or maybe they can throw in taku. Dudes been stranded in the techno jungle for 20 years