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  1. #3616
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    again beloved. I never said he cant leave his dimension only that his dimension is one tied to the earth. his power is tied to his dimension.
    But he can leave Earth. And I dont think he has to go to Earth first to be somewhere else in the universe.

    If that mattered why hasn't Adversary concurred the universe from his own dimension?

  2. #3617
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    oan: I see people dont like what Coates did with Ororo, but how about how Aaron writing Tchalla bowing down to Moon Knight in today's issue of Avengers? At least when he bowerd down to Ororo it was in context to the lady he loved and respected.
    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    From what I understand Coates was the first writer to truly delve into what the Wakandan god mythology even looks like so of course there isnt anything else there as no other writer explored this. Coates just aligned what is true for other Marvel gods to those that reside in Wakanda.

    Goddess! I didnt mean literally bow down I was speaking figuratively. Instead of fighting using the wakandan tech and all of that to send Moon Knight packing he did the opposite. He surrendering without fighting and simply ending Moon Knight was my point. Did you even read my post?

    Immensely powerful or not they are not gods in the sense that Adversary is. The best example you had was Mephisto and as I pointed out his power is tied to his dimension on earth. Tchalla was able to exploit that by blocking the energy that transmitted to mephisto from that dimension.
    except he hasn't even delved knto the gods anymore then any other writer has. Nono e knows who the orishas are still, other then apparently they are responsible for Wakandas wealth and success instead of their own power, and we still know nothing more about bast other then under Coates she is basically a child. He basically took the special thing about Wakanda and gave haters exactly what they want: and excuse to explain away Wakandans being exceptional on their own.

    Lol you write the above and talk as though MK Punk'd TChalla (he didn't) and then claim that his Wakandan tech failed against mk (it didn't, in fact Mks power failed against TChalla) it kinda deflates your whole argument. TChalla is looking at the end game. Considering what he has faced (super skrulls, the black order, etc) there's little doubt Wakanda would win. However, TChalla sees that there is more going on obviously given the conversation he has with Steve.

    TChalla defeated foes greater than adversary. Wakandan tech has faced against stronger opponents who actually have a level of continuity and depth to them. TChalla beat the Panther God (back on gillis run) with tech. Adversary doesn't have the feats to warrant a threat ad big other then a character saying he is dangerous. Yet he got beaten by a metal box.. Wakanda is more than a match

  3. #3618
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    I'm late to this party but c'mon yall, no one has to downplay these two character's just to prove what they're capable of, seriously. BP knows how powerful storm is and he's mentioned the goddess thing before and Tchalla is literally in storms words which is canon "the most brilliant man she's ever met\known" and the most dangerous man alive. Y'all were talking about the adversary thing which is pretty simple to explain, Ororro beating adversary was possible because Tchalla if we're being honest even if he didn't defeat the threat himself he coached Ro into overcoming the claustrophobia thing and demanded she rose to the occasion and believed in her powers it's not like our boy dropped to his knees like a preacher in a Sunday sermon, I've been keeping up with the current BP comic and been paying attention. Not a big fan of coates writing style but I'm a BP fan and I'll support the character regardless of coates and I'm a storm fan as well but I'm not bias because bp and storm work well together and both character's know how dangerous they can be, no point in starting a flame war over who can do this and that it ain't gonna go anywhere plus it seems pretty petty to pit two black heroes against each other just for fan favoritism if you ask me. I'm just super sayin. Just my input to this debacle.

  4. #3619
    Incredible Member Vibranium Weave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    again beloved. I never said he cant leave his dimension only that his dimension is one tied to the earth. his power is tied to his dimension.
    I think Mephisto has greater power than Adversary (Mephisto fights people like Thor & Silver Surfer, Mephisto also made the whole world forget Peter Parker was Spider-Man).

    Also, you need to clear your messages so I can respond to you.

  5. #3620
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    except he hasn't even delved knto the gods anymore then any other writer has. Nono e knows who the orishas ™ are still, other then apparently they are responsible for Wakandas wealth and success instead of their own power, and we still know nothing more about bast other then under Coates she is basically a child. He basically took the special thing about Wakanda and gave haters exactly what they want: and excuse to explain away Wakandans being exceptional on their own.

    Lol you write the above and talk as though MK Punk'd TChalla (he didn't) and then claim that his Wakandan tech failed against mk (it didn't, in fact Mks power failed against TChalla) it kinda deflates your whole argument. TChalla is looking at the end game. Considering what he has faced (super skrulls, the black order, etc) there's little doubt Wakanda would win. However, TChalla sees that there is more going on obviously given the conversation he has with Steve.

    TChalla defeated foes greater than adversary. Wakandan tech has faced against stronger opponents who actually have a level of continuity and depth to them. TChalla beat the Panther God (back on gillis run) with tech. Adversary doesn't have the feats to warrant a threat ad big other then a character saying he is dangerous. Yet he got beaten by a metal box.. Wakanda is more than a match
    Its succeeded against more powerful opponents, and failed against weaker ones. When it needs to work for the purposes of the story, it does. If it needs to be completely ineffective, like against Morlun, then it will. It's up to the writer to determine what the story needs.

  6. #3621
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Its succeeded against more powerful opponents, and failed against weaker ones. When it needs to work for the purposes of the story, it does. If it needs to be completely ineffective, like against Morlun, then it will. It's up to the writer to determine what the story needs.
    If written the way he was in BP, Morlun is more powerful than Adversary due to the fact that if Adversary is a god, he'd could absorb his powers.

  7. #3622
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    If written the way he was in BP, Morlun is more powerful than Adversary due to the fact that if Adversary is a god, he'd could absorb his powers.
    Firstly I don't agree that Morlun is more powerful. On a really good day Spider man can take him.

    But that aside, the overall point being an opponent is powerful enough to overcome Wakandan tech if the writer feels like it, and vice versa. It works when it needs to work.

  8. #3623
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Its succeeded against more powerful opponents, and failed against weaker ones. When it needs to work for the purposes of the story, it does. If it needs to be completely ineffective, like against Morlun, then it will. It's up to the writer to determine what the story needs.
    And those types of stories are stupid. Straight up. Wakandan tech is the greatest on earth and honestly I didn't like how morlun just plowed through Wakandan tech like that. It was a poor showing of Wakandan tech. ESPECIALLY when we get this like TChalla flying Thanos brain (who is far greater then morlun) with the remnants of his destroyed cell. Plot should never drive characteristics or capabilities of characters without explanation. As in, if we have seen what Wakanda tech can do to armies, gods, cosmic beings etc. So of it's going to be ineffective then it needs a damn good reason. Plus that's a one off story compared to the many showings of Wakandan tech dealing with greater foes

  9. #3624
    Extraordinary Member Mike_Murdock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blind Wedjat View Post
    And yet, I'm sure Mephisto has more power than this "Adversary"
    You know, I was thinking about this. The Adversary is one of those super god level characters who can go toe to toe with Roma so I imagine he's comparable to Mephisto. But Mephisto feels like the best of the best. Of course, Mephisto in his dimension is more powerful.
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  10. #3625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    And those types of stories are stupid. Straight up. Wakandan tech is the greatest on earth and honestly I didn't like how morlun just plowed through Wakandan tech like that. It was a poor showing of Wakandan tech. ESPECIALLY when we get this like TChalla flying Thanos brain (who is far greater then morlun) with the remnants of his destroyed cell. Plot should never drive characteristics or capabilities of characters without explanation. As in, if we have seen what Wakanda tech can do to armies, gods, cosmic beings etc. So of it's going to be ineffective then it needs a damn good reason. Plus that's a one off story compared to the many showings of Wakandan tech dealing with greater foes
    But Hudlin did what we say writers are supposed to do. He wrote the villain up to make him a threat. They threw nuclear tipped missiles at him and he shrugged it off because off all the God power he absorbed.

  11. #3626
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    And those types of stories are stupid. Straight up. Wakandan tech is the greatest on earth and honestly I didn't like how morlun just plowed through Wakandan tech like that. It was a poor showing of Wakandan tech. ESPECIALLY when we get this like TChalla flying Thanos brain (who is far greater then morlun) with the remnants of his destroyed cell. Plot should never drive characteristics or capabilities of characters without explanation. As in, if we have seen what Wakanda tech can do to armies, gods, cosmic beings etc. So of it's going to be ineffective then it needs a damn good reason. Plus that's a one off story compared to the many showings of Wakandan tech dealing with greater foes
    COurse, Thanos also did defeat Wakanda pretty decisively. So he shouldn't necessarily be a good guage of what Wakanda can and can't do as far as using ABC logic. He works either way.

    As for the reason why it's ineffective at times... the obvious reason is if Wakandan tech could literally handle anything T'Challa frankly would never even need to leave the palace. And it will fall short when the story requires it to. Because technology and magical characters are essentially plot devices, writers have a descent amount of freedom to sort of handle it as they see it. Which is why I don't think you can really complain too much if Thanos is able to overcome Wakandan tech, or if he's overcome by Wakandan tech. It works either way.

  12. #3627
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    But Hudlin did what we say writers are supposed to do. He wrote the villain up to make him a threat. They threw nuclear tipped missiles at him and he shrugged it off because off all the God power he absorbed.
    It's been awhile since I read that story. Do it was god energy that allowed him to shrug off the tech? That goes back to my point in my post, thee needs to be a damn good explanation. That is a good explanation then.

    What's not a good explanation, it's Coates entire series where a dozen goons almost defeated Wakanda because reasons, same with adversary, same with the intergalactic Wakanda. No explanation other then plot demands it

  13. #3628
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_Murdock View Post
    You know, I was thinking about this. The Adversary is one of those super god level characters who can go toe to toe with Roma so I imagine he's comparable to Mephisto. But Mephisto feels like the best of the best. Of course, Mephisto in his dimension is more powerful.
    If I had to guess I'd say they have comparable levels of power... but Adversary has more inherent weakness which probably make him easier to beat.

    But he is up there in power. He just doesn't get as much play as Mephisto, so he doesn't get the same level of cred. Mephisto is the poster boy for high end evil mystical beings in the MU. He's Coke to Adversarys Mr. Pibb.

  14. #3629
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    But he can leave Earth. And I dont think he has to go to Earth first to be somewhere else in the universe.

    If that mattered why hasn't Adversary concurred the universe from his own dimension?
    yes he can leave earth and doesnt need to go to earth first to travel elsewhere. his dimension hell is simply tied to earth as it is fueled by human souls.

    alternatively, adversary's power isnt tied to one dimension or any dimension. he is the god of chaos the antithesis to order. he is everywhere and life itself depends on him:





    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    except he hasn't even delved knto the gods anymore then any other writer has. Nono e knows who the orishas ™ are still, other then apparently they are responsible for Wakandas wealth and success instead of their own power, and we still know nothing more about bast other then under Coates she is basically a child. He basically took the special thing about Wakanda and gave haters exactly what they want: and excuse to explain away Wakandans being exceptional on their own.

    Lol you write the above and talk as though MK Punk'd TChalla (he didn't) and then claim that his Wakandan tech failed against mk (it didn't, in fact Mks power failed against TChalla) it kinda deflates your whole argument. TChalla is looking at the end game. Considering what he has faced (super skrulls, the black order, etc) there's little doubt Wakanda would win. However, TChalla sees that there is more going on obviously given the conversation he has with Steve.

    TChalla defeated foes greater than adversary. Wakandan tech has faced against stronger opponents who actually have a level of continuity and depth to them. TChalla beat the Panther God (back on gillis run) with tech. Adversary doesn't have the feats to warrant a threat ad big other then a character saying he is dangerous. Yet he got beaten by a metal box.. Wakanda is more than a match

    1. he's done more with the wakandan god concept than any other writer and has laid the foundation for other writers to explore if they so choose.

    2. Did Tchalla fight back against MK? Or did he simply surrender?

    3. no one knows the extent of adversary true power. you cant say that even so much us still unknown about him and what makes him tick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mekk80s View Post
    I'm late to this party but c'mon yall, no one has to downplay these two character's just to prove what they're capable of, seriously. BP knows how powerful storm is and he's mentioned the goddess thing before and Tchalla is literally in storms words which is canon "the most brilliant man she's ever met\known" and the most dangerous man alive. Y'all were talking about the adversary thing which is pretty simple to explain, Ororro beating adversary was possible because Tchalla if we're being honest even if he didn't defeat the threat himself he coached Ro into overcoming the claustrophobia thing and demanded she rose to the occasion and believed in her powers it's not like our boy dropped to his knees like a preacher in a Sunday sermon, I've been keeping up with the current BP comic and been paying attention. Not a big fan of coates writing style but I'm a BP fan and I'll support the character regardless of coates and I'm a storm fan as well but I'm not bias because bp and storm work well together and both character's know how dangerous they can be, no point in starting a flame war over who can do this and that it ain't gonna go anywhere plus it seems pretty petty to pit two black heroes against each other just for fan favoritism if you ask me. I'm just super sayin. Just my input to this debacle.
    what coates did was absolutely beautiful and both their love for another allowed rgen to defeat an enemy that is a universal threat. I see nothing absolutely wrong with that and its unfortunate that his work is turned into opposite of that. thank you for this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium Weave View Post
    I think Mephisto has greater power than Adversary (Mephisto fights people like Thor & Silver Surfer, Mephisto also made the whole world forget Peter Parker was Spider-Man).

    Also, you need to clear your messages so I can respond to you.
    ok will do thanks love. I mentioned in another post I'm sure people can argue either way depending on the context.
    Last edited by butterflykyss; 05-27-2020 at 05:53 PM.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  15. #3630
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    COurse, Thanos also did defeat Wakanda pretty decisively. So he shouldn't necessarily be a good guage of what Wakanda can and can't do as far as using ABC logic. He works either way.

    As for the reason why it's ineffective at times... the obvious reason is if Wakandan tech could literally handle anything T'Challa frankly would never even need to leave the palace. And it will fall short when the story requires it to. Because technology and magical characters are essentially plot devices, writers have a descent amount of freedom to sort of handle it as they see it. Which is why I don't think you can really complain too much if Thanos is able to overcome Wakandan tech, or if he's overcome by Wakandan tech. It works either way.
    No Thanos didn't defeat Wakanda decisively. He lost the first two times. It took him 3 tries and the only reason he was successful the third time was because of betrayal.

    Abd you seem to be misusing the term a match for anything. Redjack showed it the best in the last Avenger. Wakandan tech was a match for the avengers. TChalla still had to work for his wins but his tech was able to handle anything thrown at him. It's not a catch all while TChalla sips mimosa's, but The most technologically advanced nation on earth should mean something

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