Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[MindofShadow]

In theory.

Has zero feats of having any magical protection though.

Might be an unpopular opinion but,in theroy, I alwaylied Alchemy powered T'challa. If they wanted a power creep, that was their chance right there. He, in theory, was stronger than he ever was and those alchemy markings are pretty cool looking. Once he got the regular BP/HSH/Bast boost added with the alchemy, he coulda been spider-man level.

Then he went to Hell's Kitchen and that plot line was dropped kinda sorta maybe he was still peak human maybe not who knows but he wasn't black panther it is really unclear ect ect.

[MindofShadow]

I have a question does are Tchallas senses acute enough to where he can detect heartbeats or would his suit allow this? Just wondering if thats ever happened before

Most recent example is the Rise of the Black Panther story, he did exactly what you are describing



His senses used to be popular to use. He has other sense feats like detecting electronic pulses in walls, tacking Sue Storm when shes invisible, figuring out Doombots from real Doom, various enhance smell feats during priest run, hearing and seeing things miles away, ect


Coates dropped all that for "soul tracking" which... im all for power creeps and upgrades and that sounds cool but... there is no concrete definition wtf that means other than stuff is green lol. So, basically it is enhanced senses with a cool name.

[Ezyo1000]

It can be a big deal, or not a big deal depending on whether the BP or Avengers writers choose to acknowledge it.

Secret Empire for example was arguably a more embarrassing loss for Wakanda than AvX or Time Runs Out. But in a practical sense that loss basically didn't happen as it's never really referenced again.

So these sort of loses can mean as much or as little as a writer wants them to. Given how nations magically recover overnight anyways, at a certain point it just becomes background white noise in an event.

What you keep ignoring is that, just like the overuse of the death of a character just for them to come back, it makes such occasions mean less and less. If Wakanda keeps losing, soon enough it no longer becomes a place of power, or the nation that when isht hits the fan, they are still the one of the only places on earth that still stands. Secret empires loss was straight up stupid. Complete plot induced stupidity of the laziest fashion. Like Spencer didn't even bother to try and come up with a logical reason. It was literally "I have zero idea on how Wakanda is going to lose the shard so I am going to completely pull something out of my ass

[DigiCom]

Sadly, that mindset is endemic in comics these days. The idea of building on what went before is almost anathema to modern writers. They'd much rather throw everything away so they can introduce their Cool Idea™, and damn the consequences.

On topic example: The Panther God.

Initially, there wasn't one, at least not as an active force. And that was fine.

Then someone (Gillis, I think) decided to introduce a spiritual component to the Panther powers, and we meet the Panther God. And that was fine because it didn't contradict what went before.

Priest decided the Panther God(dess) was Bast, of the Heliopolitan pantheon. Some minor hiccups over gender aside, it's fine, because it really didn't contradict earlier depictions, and added to the story.

And then we have Coates, wonderful genius that he is, deciding that not only is Bast NOT an Egyptian deity, but a member of the Orishas. But not the existing Orishas, but some sort of new Orishas that look like sci-fi aliens. And not actually a deity, but an ancient Wakandan empowered by fate in a battle against the Originators.

Did it fit what went before? No, not really.

Did it add anything of import to the character? No, not really.

Does it actually matter to the story? No, not really.

But it's Cool™. That's all that matters to him... making his stamp on the character, come Duat or akhet.

[Ezyo1000]

Sadly, that mindset is endemic in comics these days. The idea of building on what went before is almost anathema to modern writers. They'd much rather throw everything away so they can introduce their Cool Idea™, and damn the consequences.

On topic example: The Panther God.

Initially, there wasn't one, at least not as an active force. And that was fine.

Then someone (Gillis, I think) decided to introduce a spiritual component to the Panther powers, and we meet the Panther God. And that was fine because it didn't contradict what went before.

Priest decided the Panther God(dess) was Bast, of the Heliopolitan pantheon. Some minor hiccups over gender aside, it's fine, because it really didn't contradict earlier depictions, and added to the story.

And then we have Coates, wonderful genius that he is, deciding that not only is Bast NOT an Egyptian deity, but a member of the Orishas. But not the existing Orishas, but some sort of new Orishas that look like sci-fi aliens. And not actually a deity, but an ancient Wakandan empowered by fate in a battle against the Originators.

Did it fit what went before? No, not really.

Did it add anything of import to the character? No, not really.

Does it actually matter to the story? No, not really.

But it's Cool™. That's all that matters to him... making his stamp on the character, come Duat or akhet.

I would go on further to say it's not even cool ™ because the point of that change wasn't to enhance T'Challa or give Wakanda more depth and world building, it was used as the excuse needed to give Storm an upgrade, and for Wakanda to pray to Storm, something none of them would EVER do (yea they may call her goddess, but they don't actually think she is one) all for the sake of ending his rushed second story with an ass pull of a villain.

I honestly like Hudlins version the best (Hudlins version, not Mayberrys frakkery of it) Take the HSH, get judged by bast, if your not worthy then you become kitty food. It was simple and a way to have a deity without making Wakanda reliant on a god to save them but rather their own ingenuity, which is what made Wakanda special in the first place, take away vibranium and they are still extraordinary. But then again Coates torpedoed that idea as well with his Orishas™. So everything special about Wakanda is gone and all the stupid stereotypical stuff shacked to Africans remains

[XPac]

What you keep ignoring is that, just like the overuse of the death of a character just for them to come back, it makes such occasions mean less and less. If Wakanda keeps losing, soon enough it no longer becomes a place of power, or the nation that when isht hits the fan, they are still the one of the only places on earth that still stands. Secret empires loss was straight up stupid. Complete plot induced stupidity of the laziest fashion. Like Spencer didn't even bother to try and come up with a logical reason. It was literally "I have zero idea on how Wakanda is going to lose the shard so I am going to completely pull something out of my ass

Its wasn't an ass pull, in that Hydra beat Shield the same way. So it was established in the story to some degree at least that they were capable of doing this.

But in the least the story went out of it's way to show that Wakanda withstood multiple attempts from Hydra before being defeated, similar to Infinity. So there is still an effort to somewhat protect Wakanda. It's still going to go down when needed, but it's often the last place to go down.

[chief12d]

There were good and bad things about Coates’ retcons to Wakandan pre-history. For one I liked how Bast wasn’t a Heliopolitan god and was firmly rooted in actual Wakandan lore. But obviously retconning her into a human who ascended to godhood was trash. It’s made even more trash because it’s painfully obvious he did it to justify Storm ascending to godhood later in the story.

I liked the design of the Wakandan pantheon. They looked funky but in a badass kinda way. I personally like to think that what we’ve seen are their true forms and that they have animal and human guises they take as needed. But I hate the fact their pantheon is named after a Nigerian one which makes a lot less sense than Bast being Egyptian. And they should’ve had indigenous names, not ones pulled from South Africa and other parts of the continent.

I did like how he depicted relatively organized Wakandan government before the arrival of Vibranium. I’m not sure how much I’d consider this a feat but if the timeline is right, the state of Adowa was contemporaneous with empires like Atlantis and Lemuria. That’s cool to me and shows Wakandans were special long before they had special resources.

But the most egregious thing he did was have it that Wakandans were colonizers and killed off the indigenous Originators. I understand that he wanted to question this idea of Wakandan exceptionalism but drawing a direct parallel between the kingdom’s founding and the US’ felt forced and like too direct of an attack. Of all the things he did I hope this is outright retconned. The Originators should’ve been Set-worshipping Deviants that tried to take land from early pre-Wakandans and lost.

[MindofShadow]

But I hate the fact their pantheon is named after a Nigerian one which makes a lot less sense than Bast being Egyptian. And they should’ve had indigenous names, not ones pulled from South Africa and other parts of the continent.
.

africa is african bro! he used african names! He renamed the cities to sound African! it works! Damisa-Sarki man! Haramu-Fal !!! so cool! /s

It is fake wokeness "deep" ****. I hate it. It adds less than nothing to the story. It literally exists so he can get pats on the back from twitter "woke" folks.

Hell, it takes away from the story by adding in a level of complexity not needed.

[MindofShadow]

Sadly, that mindset is endemic in comics these days. The idea of building on what went before is almost anathema to modern writers. They'd much rather throw everything away so they can introduce their Cool Idea™, and damn the consequences.

On topic example: The Panther God.

Initially, there wasn't one, at least not as an active force. And that was fine.

Then someone (Gillis, I think) decided to introduce a spiritual component to the Panther powers, and we meet the Panther God. And that was fine because it didn't contradict what went before.

Priest decided the Panther God(dess) was Bast, of the Heliopolitan pantheon. Some minor hiccups over gender aside, it's fine, because it really didn't contradict earlier depictions, and added to the story.

And then we have Coates, wonderful genius that he is, deciding that not only is Bast NOT an Egyptian deity, but a member of the Orishas. But not the existing Orishas, but some sort of new Orishas that look like sci-fi aliens. And not actually a deity, but an ancient Wakandan empowered by fate in a battle against the Originators.

Did it fit what went before? No, not really.

Did it add anything of import to the character? No, not really.

Does it actually matter to the story? No, not really.

But it's Cool™. That's all that matters to him... making his stamp on the character, come Duat or akhet.

The Panther God peaked with Hudlin/Deadliest of the Species and then quickly spiraled out of control.

Her deciding the worthiness of her/the HSH powers/avatar was neat, cool, and actually helps make sense of things like Killmonger's random poisoning. It was kind of a culmination of McGregor and Priest's stuff with the HSH.

And then it went off the deep end with Doom War and has only gotten worse over the years. Suddenly she is protecting the Vibranium Mound (I thought that was her avatars job??) and... is OK with Doom because of fan wank and then Hickman couldn't stop himself from using her in one story and then never again and now look where we are? The more she is used, the less sense it all makes.


The only hope I have left with Coates run is that he continues to follow the Bendis model (too much talking without saying anything, splash pages to keep you hooked, never ending stories that drag on and on) and puts all the pieces back where they go in the last issue. Which means Bast and T'challa shake god-hands and Bast fucks off for the next 10 years in the books and isn't seen again for a very long time.

[Cville]

There were good and bad things about Coates’ retcons to Wakandan pre-history. For one I liked how Bast wasn’t a Heliopolitan god and was firmly rooted in actual Wakandan lore. But obviously retconning her into a human who ascended to godhood was trash. It’s made even more trash because it’s painfully obvious he did it to justify Storm ascending to godhood later in the story.

I liked the design of the Wakandan pantheon. They looked funky but in a badass kinda way. I personally like to think that what we’ve seen are their true forms and that they have animal and human guises they take as needed. But I hate the fact their pantheon is named after a Nigerian one which makes a lot less sense than Bast being Egyptian. And they should’ve had indigenous names, not ones pulled from South Africa and other parts of the continent.

I did like how he depicted relatively organized Wakandan government before the arrival of Vibranium. I’m not sure how much I’d consider this a feat but if the timeline is right, the state of Adowa was contemporaneous with empires like Atlantis and Lemuria. That’s cool to me and shows Wakandans were special long before they had special resources.

But the most egregious thing he did was have it that Wakandans were colonizers and killed off the indigenous Originators. I understand that he wanted to question this idea of Wakandan exceptionalism but drawing a direct parallel between the kingdom’s founding and the US’ felt forced and like too direct of an attack. Of all the things he did I hope this is outright retconned. The Originators should’ve been Set-worshipping Deviants that tried to take land from early pre-Wakandans and lost.

When Priest introduced the Panther God as Bast, he has Tchalla say they were worshiped in Africa before they took on Egyptian names. So Bast was adopted or modified by Egyptians as her religion spread. Like Greek and Roman gods.

You couldn't really call it a Wakandan govt., because Wakanda doesn't form until after the Vb lands and the tribes band together to fight those who were mutated by the radiation. Aaron has the panther tribe established in his 1 million BC Avengers timeline. So Coates' story is probably already overridden. lol

[chief12d]

When Priest introduced the Panther God as Bast, he has Tchalla say they were worshiped in Africa before they took on Egyptian names. So Bast was adopted or modified by Egyptians as her religion spread. Like Greek and Roman gods.

You couldn't really call it a Wakandan govt., because Wakanda doesn't form until after the Vb lands and the tribes band together to fight those who were mutated by the radiation. Aaron has the panther tribe established in his 1 million BC Avengers timeline. So Coates' story is probably already overridden. lol

Yup Priest covered his bases with that statement in the Moonknight team up but that doesn’t stop certain writers from making Wakanda look like a lost Egyptian colony. And it started the trend of all of Wakandas gods being picked from other African pantheons. At least Bast sorta made sense since we know the Egyptian gods were worshipped all along the Nile and are directly related to the spirituality of the peoples in the upper Great Lakes region. But the Gorilla god of the Jabari being named after a god from the Ivory Coast? Long term it seems like it would’ve been easier to invent a Wakandan skyfather and build a pantheon from there with the Panther God as the new king/queen of the gods.

Technically you’re right but I more meant a state that existed in the land that would become Wakanda. Adowa existed before the rise of Bashenga and the Vibranium Age and I consider the existence of a pre-Wakandan state a good thing for the mythos. It demonstrates that Wakandans always has the potential to be great and had developed sophisticated institutions like kings and militaries before they got access to a miracle metal. But all that probably doesn’t matter with the story Aaron is telling. Though I’m pretty sure that’ll be forgotten as soon as his run is over lol.

[DigiCom]

Aaron has the panther tribe established in his 1 million BC Avengers timeline. So Coates' story is probably already overridden. lol

You don't want to get me started on the stupidity of the BC Avengers. Trust me.

[Common Writer]

Well if you are talking about street level thugs sure. He will seem like a tank. Like I, and many others have stated. Repeatedly, write him new and more challenging villains instead of trying to make him the black Daredevil. BP is typically, tragically underserved by piss-poor writers that can't or just don't want to proper research into who T'challa is.

This is why I believe Shuri should become the next BP villain. Who knows where T'Challa is most vulnerable other than his sister?

This is why I also believe that Trevor Noah should become the next BP writer.

[Ezyo1000]

Its wasn't an ass pull, in that Hydra beat Shield the same way. So it was established in the story to some degree at least that they were capable of doing this.

But in the least the story went out of it's way to show that Wakanda withstood multiple attempts from Hydra before being defeated, similar to Infinity. So there is still an effort to somewhat protect Wakanda. It's still going to go down when needed, but it's often the last place to go down.

If by established you mean Faustus says something along the lines of "I have a new power to try, but it can only work once" or something like that (which again is BS) then yes, so established.

The reality is, Spencer had no idea or how to make it work so he used a BS asspull instead of having Wakanda take place in the final battle. Which would of made a hell of a lot more sense

[Cville]

You don't want to get me started on the stupidity of the BC Avengers. Trust me.

It's not too far fetched. As long as he doesn't use the word Wakanda and keeps it as the one tribe that Bashenga defends from, it works. Wakanda hasn't become a thing yet. He needs a power up though. I'd like to see some sort of "Tailed Beast" form being more spiritual close to Bast. Something Tchalla could only achieve if he gave up technology and went completely organic.