Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Kurt Busiek]

Wakandans need to step up their surname game.

Nah, they're fine. What you call inefficient is only two letters longer than how the Norwegians do it. It's cool.

Doesn't that seem backward to you?

No, it seems like "they gotta do like we do or they're backward" is culturally snobbish. I'd rather they have a culture that feels different from ours than forcing them into a Western model because we're sold on ourselves. Feeling distinctive is better than being homogenized, and it helps underscore that they were never a European colonial property.

They use patronymic designations, and possibly matronymics as well, and they work fine.

[Vibranium Weave]

There's nothing wrong with anything that you stated. Some have kind of voiced things that seem close to wanting mute BP in a way that takes away from his skills. Funny thing is nobody really talks about Batman being uber everything taking away from how writers are able to use him. You know what happens. They write stories that actually challenge the man that's smarter than all the geniuses, and fights better than all the world's best, to the point where there are many different books of just him. So yeah let him be the one with skills beyond his peers and people that are paid good money do their job.

Thank you & I appreciate your honest response.

[Vibranium Weave]

I don't think that was me -- I think I got it from the Marvel Handbook?

kdb

Based on the online Marvel Wiki, it appears that the 1st mention of the Wakanda Design Group was in your Avengers run (not saying the Marvel online Wiki can't be incorrect, though). Please see image below:

wdg-kb.jpg

[Vibranium Weave]

Nah, they're fine. What you call inefficient is only two letters longer than how the Norwegians do it. It's cool.



No, it seems like "they gotta do like we do or they're backward" is culturally snobbish. I'd rather they have a culture that feels different from ours than forcing them into a Western model because we're sold on ourselves. Feeling distinctive is better than being homogenized, and it helps underscore that they were never a European colonial property.

They use patronymic designations, and possibly matronymics as well, and they work fine.

The stuff in BOLD is the way Wakanda should be emphasized in the comics! Gold star statements!!!

[XPac]

There's nothing wrong with anything that you stated. Some have kind of voiced things that seem close to wanting mute BP in a way that takes away from his skills. Funny thing is nobody really talks about Batman being uber everything taking away from how writers are able to use him. You know what happens. They write stories that actually challenge the man that's smarter than all the geniuses, and fights better than all the world's best, to the point where there are many different books of just him. So yeah let him be the one with skills beyond his peers and people that are paid good money do their job.

Batman like T'Challa is potentially a tricky balancing act. One TUesday he's fighting Bane, but on THursday he might be fighting Darkseid. A person that can do the later in theory shouldn't hae any problems whatsoever doing the former... but they make sure the Superman buster gear only shows up in the Justice League book. It never shows up in Gotham when he's dealing with street crime. But Batman writers have been juggling this for a long time, so they're sort of pros with it at this point.

T'Challa has to compartamentize himself the same way. If he's got gear which allows him to fight Namor, he shouldn't have any business fighting Killmonger when he's wearing it. His gear needs to only be JUST enough to meet the threat level because you never want things too easy. And sometimes like Batman it means ignoring tech which in theory can make his life a whole lot easier... but the point is to not do that.

[Ezyo1000]

There's nothing wrong with anything that you stated. Some have kind of voiced things that seem close to wanting mute BP in a way that takes away from his skills. Funny thing is nobody really talks about Batman being uber everything taking away from how writers are able to use him. You know what happens. They write stories that actually challenge the man that's smarter than all the geniuses, and fights better than all the world's best, to the point where there are many different books of just him. So yeah let him be the one with skills beyond his peers and people that are paid good money do their job.

It less about taking away his genius and instead focusing more on his straight up skill. All the best stories about T'Challa and how he ended a conflict had nothing to do with whipping out super tech, but rather using the tech he had in conventional and unconventional methods as well as on the fly tech. In recent years he has become much more tech heavy, but not exactly in a good way. It's more like "where did that come from?" JA avenger's is like that, he whips out tech we have never seen and for it to never be seen again too. Is that what we want as fans? Or do we want consistency, and ingenuity on using the tech he has In strategic and creative ways and only pulling out the super tech when the situation is really bad.

But having him tech heavy brings about the issues we saw in Coates series with the force push. Brilliant idea by Stelfreeze, Coogler masterfully showed its capabilities when used correctly, Narcisse showed this as well I. The comics side. However, Coates, the Russo's and most other comic writers have been lazy about it and either spamming it, or using it as a way to not have a fight seen and have him just blast people instead.

So really it comes down to having the right writer for the character

[Ezyo1000]

Batman like T'Challa is potentially a tricky balancing act. One TUesday he's fighting Bane, but on THursday he might be fighting Darkseid. A person that can do the later in theory shouldn't hae any problems whatsoever doing the former... but they make sure the Superman buster gear only shows up in the Justice League book. It never shows up in Gotham when he's dealing with street crime. But Batman writers have been juggling this for a long time, so they're sort of pros with it at this point.

T'Challa has to compartamentize himself the same way. If he's got gear which allows him to fight Namor, he shouldn't have any business fighting Killmonger when he's wearing it. His gear needs to only be JUST enough to meet the threat level because you never want things too easy. And sometimes like Batman it means ignoring tech which in theory can make his life a whole lot easier... but the point is to not do that.

Or, and I'm just soitballing here, writers scale the threat UP to challenge the hero and make them work for the win.

Ignoring tech that would make the job easier or ignoring feats to create faux tension, or to create the idea that the villain is more dangerous than they actually are. Bring threats UP to the next level, don't knock the hero down to create suspense. It's really dumb and only hurts the title character

[Vibranium Weave]

It less about taking away his genius and instead focusing more on his straight up skill. All the best stories about T'Challa and how he ended a conflict had nothing to do with whipping out super tech, but rather using the tech he had in conventional and unconventional methods as well as on the fly tech. In recent years he has become much more tech heavy, but not exactly in a good way. It's more like "where did that come from?" JA avenger's is like that, he whips out tech we have never seen and for it to never be seen again too. Is that what we want as fans? Or do we want consistency, and ingenuity on using the tech he has In strategic and creative ways and only pulling out the super tech when the situation is really bad.

But having him tech heavy brings about the issues we saw in Coates series with the force push. Brilliant idea by Stelfreeze, Coogler masterfully showed its capabilities when used correctly, Narcisse showed this as well I. The comics side. However, Coates, the Russo's and most other comic writers have been lazy about it and either spamming it, or using it as a way to not have a fight seen and have him just blast people instead.

So really it comes down to having the right writer for the character

The part in underlined is what I've been saying the whole time.

I have said at many times on this message board that T'Challa standard gear should be the following:

-Vibranium Weave (with Force Push)
-Anti-Metal Claws
-Energy Daggers
-Kimoyo Computer System
-Vibranium energy dampening soles in his boot (minus being able to walk on water lol)

I agree that JA in the Avengers comic has given T'Challa WAY too much new tech. But due to the writing (and in comparison to Coates) many still preferred his take on BP.

It seems like people are having a HUGE push back to tech in this board. The tech I have listed ( which was pretty much on display in Rise is not really too much tech).

I know that some in this board even feel that the gadgets I just listed should be striped down to somehow show T'Challa has heart.

[Digifiend]

He's T'Challa, son of T'Chaka, which is every bit as specific as calling him T'Challa T'Chakason.

Which makes Shuri, Shuri T'Chakadottir?

It's worth noting though, that royals tend not to use surnames anyway, they use their titles instead. The British royal family is the Mountbatten-Windsors, but only a few members, such as Harry's son Archie, actually use it. Archie's cousins George, Charlotte and Louis, instead use the surname Cambridge, which is actually William's title, while William and Harry were known by the surname Wales (Charles's title) at school and in the military, before they got their own Cambridge and Sussex titles. Beatrice and Eugenie were known as York for the same reason. On that logic, Black Panther's name would probably be something like T'Challa Wakanda.

Has who should replace Coates as writer of BP been discussed? I'm thinking that with the current news events in the real world, it would be bad PR to not have an ethnic minority writer on the book... so I was thinking, what about Eve Ewing? She used Wakanda in the second half of her Ironheart run, and she's black. And her only current book is Champions, so she probably has time for another book.

[Blind Wedjat]

With all due respect Weave, you're the one making these assumptions out of nowhere. There's nothing you've said that we're 100% disagreeing with you on.

None of us here want to strip T'Challa off his tech to show he has heart or whatever. There was one new user that said T'Challa shouldn't wear the Vibranium armour anymore because we don't get to see him dodge bullets and we all disagreed with that.

Has anyone ever pushed back against your standard gear suggestion. I know I haven't. In fact, I'm pretty sure Ezyo and MoS have added even more tech and abilities to that list. These two talk about their Golden City Smash all the time lol.

The only thing I and I think DigiCom don't like is what Aaron was doing with T'Challa, in which he had a new gadget every issue, especially when his standard gear could do the job. I like having a standard be set and writers working within that constraint. No one did this better than Priest in my opinion, and I think we still consider him the definitive writer for T'Challa, no?

I know I've said before that T'Challa isn't an inventor the same way Tony Stark and Reed Richards are and I can see how that can rub you the wrong way. It's a wrong radical statement because T'Challa is an inventor as well as many things. But think about it this way: Tony Stark is an in-universe widely recognised inventor. His notable inventions are the Iron Man armours and Repulsor tech. Reed Richards is an in-universe widely recognised scientist, due to his scientific knowledge on the Negative Zone and too many inventions to count. Hank Pym is an in-universe widely recognised inventor. His notable inventions are the Pym Particles and Ultron. Now let's be honest: does T'Challa have anything that recognisable? The closest we've got is Shadow Physics and we can't even define how it works. Therefore, has being an inventor and a man of science really been the focus of T'Challa's characterisation or is his intelligence really notable within and without the Marvel Universe in how he is capable of outsmarting almost everyone? It's s simple question that I think has a simple answer.

This is why I have such a hard time understanding why so many of us are disappointed with Shuri filling a space T'Challa was barely occupying in the first place. Inventing and tinkering with everything he uses isn't something T'Challa is typically shown to do. Can he do it? Of course, but why bother when you have a whole nation of some of the brightest minds on the planet at your beck and call? Why bother when you got king shit to do like run your country? Shuri being an inventor doesn't mean T'Challa isn't.

I also want to say this: comparing Black Panther to Batman works to a point. We all know the ways they are similar, but Wayne is still a man. Every technology and technique he uses is purposely meant to make him look and feel like he's more than one and compensate for his limits. T'Challa doesn't have those limits: he's stronger, faster and tougher than Wayne is, as well as having heightened senses. Therefore I don't think the way tech should be applied to T'Challa the same way you would apply it to Wayne. His tech should be used to compliment his abilities while his suit offers the protection from conventional means of harm.

The better comparison I think would be Deathstroke (ironically Priest's last book). A master strategist with enhanced physiology, donning a suit of armour made up of a super durable metal, and a specific set of versatile weapons and tools. Slade was able to hurt Superman and theoretically kill Reverse Flash with creative uses of what he possessed and not because he was given new tech for those instances. That, plus T'Challa's intellect and tactical prowess, his spiritual and mythical connection plus his importance in international politics is how I believe T'Challa should be written.

[XPac]

Or, and I'm just soitballing here, writers scale the threat UP to challenge the hero and make them work for the win.

Ignoring tech that would make the job easier or ignoring feats to create faux tension, or to create the idea that the villain is more dangerous than they actually are. Bring threats UP to the next level, don't knock the hero down to create suspense. It's really dumb and only hurts the title character

Yeah, batman writers can scale up Riddler and Penguin to be Darkseid level threats in Gotham ... but then they stop being Riddler and Penguin.The point being they want characters like Batman being able to scale up and down as needed.

[XPac]

The part in underlined is what I've been saying the whole time.

I have said at many times on this message board that T'Challa standard gear should be the following:

-Vibranium Weave (with Force Push)
-Anti-Metal Claws
-Energy Daggers
-Kimoyo Computer System
-Vibranium energy dampening soles in his boot (minus being able to walk on water lol)

I agree that JA in the Avengers comic has given T'Challa WAY too much new tech. But due to the writing (and in comparison to Coates) many still preferred his take on BP.

It seems like people are having a HUGE push back to tech in this board. The tech I have listed ( which was pretty much on display in Rise is not really too much tech).

I know that some in this board even feel that the gadgets I just listed should be striped down to somehow show T'Challa has heart.

I think Priests gear was about right right. Force push is where the tech starts overshadowing his natural ability. Once the suit is essentially capable of doing the fighting for him, it's doing too much of the work.

Against a higher end threat that Tchalla has no business fighting hand to hand like the Hulk or whatever, it's great. But That's why I wouldn't use it with standard gear. Against a Mbaku or a Killmonger, it becomes more about the suit than the man. Any opponent he can believable face and beat WITHOUT the gear assisting him, he should fight without the gear really assisting him IMO to show that it's the man people need to worry about rather than the gear he's wearing. That became an issue when DP fought BP... Wade was literally scared to fight T'CHalla until he got a vibranium suit which leveled the playing field. The implication being he was more worried about the force push than T'Challas actual skill. That's the message we want to avoid. Have him beating people without the suit when possible so the credit goes where it belongs.

It's the same reason Batman shouldn't be wearing the suit he used to fight Superman against Bane or Killer Croc. Its overkill on paper. Batman should have it if necessary but it shouldn't be standard.

[DigiCom]

But having him tech heavy brings about the issues we saw in Coates series with the force push. Brilliant idea by Stelfreeze, Coogler masterfully showed its capabilities when used correctly, Narcisse showed this as well I. The comics side. However, Coates, the Russo's and most other comic writers have been lazy about it and either spamming it, or using it as a way to not have a fight seen and have him just blast people instead.

If memory serves, I warned that might happen about 2 days after Coates first mentioned it in his blog.

[Mekk80s]

I think Priests gear was about right right. Force push is where the tech starts overshadowing his natural ability. Once the suit is essentially capable of doing the fighting for him, it's doing too much of the work.

Against a higher end threat that Tchalla has no business fighting hand to hand like the Hulk or whatever, it's great. But That's why I wouldn't use it with standard gear. Against a Mbaku or a Killmonger, it becomes more about the suit than the man. Any opponent he can believable face and beat WITHOUT the gear assisting him, he should fight without the gear really assisting him IMO to show that it's the man people need to worry about rather than the gear he's wearing. That became an issue when DP fought BP... Wade was literally scared to fight T'CHalla until he got a vibranium suit which leveled the playing field. The implication being he was more worried about the force push than T'Challas actual skill. That's the message we want to avoid. Have him beating people without the suit when possible so the credit goes where it belongs.

It's the same reason Batman shouldn't be wearing the suit he used to fight Superman against Bane or Killer Croc. Its overkill on paper. Batman should have it if necessary but it shouldn't be standard.

Honestly I prefer Tchalla more as tactical fighting specialist and high field intellect warrior\king battle coach chess not checkers archetype. I feel like the tech aspect of his character should be balanced enough that it doesn't take away from his skill and powers, our guy is top 10 smartest earth mortals in the MU but also the most dangerous man alive. Tchalla to me doesn't seem like the character that would rely on tech unless he needs to in a situation that calls for it, someone in here said BP doesn't have anything to prove from a overall standpoint and i honestly agree because whether brains or skill BP is a threat either way and i honestly think whoever becomes the new writer on the next thing should find a middle ground highlighting these things. Better to find a balance than be one sided if you ask me.

[Ezyo1000]

The part in underlined is what I've been saying the whole time.

I have said at many times on this message board that T'Challa standard gear should be the following:

-Vibranium Weave (with Force Push)
-Anti-Metal Claws
-Energy Daggers
-Kimoyo Computer System
-Vibranium energy dampening soles in his boot (minus being able to walk on water lol)

I agree that JA in the Avengers comic has given T'Challa WAY too much new tech. But due to the writing (and in comparison to Coates) many still preferred his take on BP.

It seems like people are having a HUGE push back to tech in this board. The tech I have listed ( which was pretty much on display in Rise is not really too much tech).

I know that some in this board even feel that the gadgets I just listed should be striped down to somehow show T'Challa has heart.

I pretty much said the same thing about his standard gear from Priest being what he carries, (the difference from mine to yours being that the boots would store the excess kinetic energy. And then the daggers would have the added function from Ewing's ultimates to overcharge and explode that is similar to Carol's energy blasts. But these are simply added functions to the same standard tech. This is something though that everyone here has agreed on as the standard tech (Priest gear) plus or minus some other stuff. Hudlins armor's, and Hickman's boxing gloves would be extra tertiary gear.

As for your last point about stripping down his tech? There's only one poster here i can think of that has said that.. literally everyone else here agrees on Priest tech as the standard