Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Common Writer]

Has who should replace Coates as writer of BP been discussed? I'm thinking that with the current news events in the real world, it would be bad PR to not have an ethnic minority writer on the book... so I was thinking, what about Eve Ewing? She used Wakanda in the second half of her Ironheart run, and she's black. And her only current book is Champions, so she probably has time for another book.

Bryan Edward Hill.

My vote also goes out to Trevor Noah. I want see Trevor Noah write a BP mini or a one-shot.

[Cville]

Bryan Edward Hill.

My vote also goes out to Trevor Noah. I want see Trevor Noah write a BP mini or a one-shot.

Hill took a funny jab at Batman in Outsiders #12. I had to post about it in a FB group.

[MindofShadow]

Why are we suddenly acting like T'Challa hasn't ALWAYS been able to take blows from Namor and the Hulk before the suit had this Force Push ability?

When it comes to T'challa, all of a sudden everyone gets very realistic with everything in regards to power scaling.

[XPac]

When it comes to T'challa, all of a sudden everyone gets very realistic with everything in regards to power scaling.

It certainly is the case when you're talking about the Hulk. You can get some leeway from Spiderman punching guys, but the Hulk is the Hulk.

Its like Batman tanking shots from Superman. If realism is tossed out to that degree, writers might as well say screw it and have Bats flying around with an S on his chest.

[Vibranium Weave]

Bryan Edward Hill.

My vote also goes out to Trevor Noah. I want see Trevor Noah write a BP mini or a one-shot.

I just want a writer who values the mantle of Black Panther, respects T'Challa, see Wakadna as the most technologically advanced warrior nation in the world (which is an AFrican nation) and will bring action, political intrigue, based on good story telling. Please give me a writer who can do that. Let them being a strong comic writer 1st & foremost.

The kinda stuff shown in the early new 52 & rebirth Aquaman.

[Ezyo1000]

And that requires T'CHalla to constantly be taken by surprise by villains who have a means around his defenses which T'Challa isn't ready for. T'Challa should be the character one step ahead, prepped for the battle with better gear. Not the other way around.

In order for the story to work, villains have to constantly get around the suits defenses. And if that keeps happening it inevitably starts making the suit look bad, and T'Challa for not being able to anticipate their methods of getting around it. I'd frankly prefer it if T'CHalla simply didn't have the suit all the time. HIm being more vulnerable works just fine, because he's the one taking the villain by surprise instead of the other way around.

Villains should be smarter, again scale the threat io instead of weakening T'Challa. Also, just because they have the means to get around it, doesn't mean it's going to go as planned in the instances I mentioned, most of them happened on Priest run (disintegrated, chocked, hot with multiple blasts, cut) abd none of them made the habit look bad at all, it showed that the threat can be scaled up, and it showed the durability of the habit too with realistic workarounds. The force push is a natural progression as well, and it's different from. The hulk buster since the force push, when paired with a creative mind, opens the door for a ton of Priest level orthodox and unorthodox method's and uses. Evan showed that, and Coogler even Coates did twice on the 4 year's he's been on, and even they only barely scratched the surface of it's uses. Again, if the hero gets a natural progression upgrade the villains need atleast two to keep up. Simple as that.

[Ezyo1000]

I just want a writer who values the mantle of Black Panther, respects T'Challa, see Wakadna as the most technologically advanced warrior nation in the world (which is an AFrican nation) and will bring action, political intrigue, based on good story telling. Please give me a writer who can do that. Let them being a strong comic writer 1st & foremost.

The kinda stuff shown in the early new 52 & rebirth Aquaman.

So Redjack lol

[XPac]

Villains should be smarter, again scale the threat io instead of weakening T'Challa. Also, just because they have the means to get around it, doesn't mean it's going to go as planned in the instances I mentioned, most of them happened on Priest run (disintegrated, chocked, hot with multiple blasts, cut) abd none of them made the habit look bad at all, it showed that the threat can be scaled up, and it showed the durability of the habit too with realistic workarounds. The force push is a natural progression as well, and it's different from. The hulk buster since the force push, when paired with a creative mind, opens the door for a ton of Priest level orthodox and unorthodox method's and uses. Evan showed that, and Coogler even Coates did twice on the 4 year's he's been on, and even they only barely scratched the surface of it's uses. Again, if the hero gets a natural progression upgrade the villains need atleast two to keep up. Simple as that.

I don't think it weakens T'Challa to have him not carry around all his gear. Batman normally doesn't patrol Gothan in his Superman busting suit. It's okay for a character to keep higher end gear somewhere in their closet just in case.

And that's really all I'm saying. I'm not saying they should get rid of the force push entirely. I'm saying it should be reserved for the opponents that T'Challa can't beat in a straight fight. If he can beat an opponent without the force push, then he clearly doesn't need to use him. Have him use his actual skill. But if we're talking about someone beyond his ability to handle hand to hand, then he can take out the higher end gear to do the work for him.

This is a pretty simple and logical way to scale him and his threats, while putting the lions share of the emphasis on where it belongs. He can always bust it out if he's needing to throw down with the Hulk. But if it's just Man Ape, he can get it done without the gear because he's already proven he's good enough to do it.

[Huntsman Spider]

Bryan Edward Hill.

My vote also goes out to Trevor Noah. I want see Trevor Noah write a BP mini or a one-shot.

Hill could be good. I've been fascinated by his work since his What If? one-shot for X-Men, and been digging into other stuff he's written like Cyberforce for Top Cow, Outsiders for DC, and even Fallen Angels back with Marvel. He has some interesting ideas and I think he might bring an interesting perspective to a hyper-technologically advanced society like Wakanda.

[Vibranium Weave]

So Redjack lol

LOL...funny you said that, because when i have been mentioning the stripping of gear to show T'Challa has "heart"...to be honesty he was one of the main people I had in mind.

I remember in the past that he said he thought T'Challa was becoming too much like Iron Man and if he wrote the comic would not have him use the energy daggers. He also said he would have a limit on the amount of energy that the suit could absorb before it would explode.

I disagree with all of these things. For the suit to explode by taking a bunch of hits is a VERY POOR ENGINEERING DESIGN of armor (actually it's horrible engineering, especially if he knew this was the case and wore it anyway lol). If that's the case, either get rid of the push force or have BP just wear Kevlar.

If T'Challa becoming too much like Stark is a problem (which I do not think if he sticks to the standard gear that I have mentioned for T'Challa, which was used in Rise, is anywhere close to Iron Man's gear) then T'challa being too much like DD or Cap should cause alarm as well.

Many in the past had no problems ( as I perceived it ) with these stripping Redjack proposed to BP.

I liked PQ and enjoyed the political intrigue with Atlantis, but i do not agree with some of the things that Redjck would remove from BP.

Now, if Redjack has changes his mind on these things then I would be on board.

But hey, I am just one lowly Black Panther fan, so take that as my 2 cents lol.

[XPac]

LOL...funny you said that, because when i have been mentioning the stripping of gear to show T'Challa has "heart"...to be honesty he was one of the main people I had in mind.

I remember in the past that he said he thought T'Challa was becoming too much like Iron Man and if he wrote the comic would not have him use the energy daggers. He also said he would have a limit on the amount of energy that the suit could absorb before it would explode.

I disagree with all of these things. For the suit to explode by taking a bunch of hits is a VERY POOR ENGINEERING DESIGN of armor (actually it's horrible engineering, especially if he knew this was the case and wore it anyway lol). If that's the case, either get rid of the push force or have BP just wear Kevlar.

If T'Challa becoming too much like Stark is a problem (which I do not think if he sticks to the standard gear that I have mentioned for T'Challa, which was used in Rise, is anywhere close to Iron Man's gear) then T'challa being too much like DD or Cap should cause alarm as well.

Many in the past had no problems ( as I perceived it ) with these stripping Redjack proposed to BP.

I liked PQ and enjoyed the political intrigue with Atlantis, but i do not agree with some of the things that Redjck would remove from BP.

Now, if Redjack has changes his mind on these things that I would be on board.

But hey, I am just one lowly Black Panther fan, so take that as my 2 cents lol.

The suit overloading isn't necessarily an engineering design... from what I understand thats how vibranium works. It can be overloaded. The upside being when he saw it done in comics, it exploded outward so that the attackers were taken out by the blast while T'Challa was unharmed. Basically when the suit failed, it at least took the bad guys out with it.

And again, I think the comparrison we should be using is more Batman than DD or Cap. Batman DOES use tech and gear, but he still is largely reliant on skill over tech. Batman should not be stripped of his utility belt... but he also doesn't need to be flying around in a suit of armor either. There's a comfortable middle ground which Batman has been able to retain for decades... T'Challa can do the same.

[Vibranium Weave]

The suit overloading isn't necessarily an engineering design... from what I understand thats how vibranium works. It can be overloaded. The upside being when he saw it done in comics, it exploded outward so that the attackers were taken out by the blast while T'Challa was unharmed. Basically when the suit failed, it at least took the bad guys out with it.

And again, I think the comparrison we should be using is more Batman than DD or Cap. Batman DOES use tech and gear, but he still is largely reliant on skill over tech. Batman should not be stripped of his utility belt... but he also doesn't need to be flying around in a suit of armor either. There's a comfortable middle ground which Batman has been able to retain for decades... T'Challa can do the same.

It IS an engineering design because someone would be manipulating the material in the suit to discharge the energy at a given time and amount, when operating under optimal/normal conditions. You can call it material engineering or whatever but the suit would not/did not do that unless someone altered the material to do so.

If that was the case, the vibranium mind would most likely explode when the miners go to mine it.

[XPac]

It IS an engineering design because someone would be manipulating the material in the suit to discharge the energy at a given time and amount, when operating under optimal/normal conditions. You can call it material engineering or whatever but the suit would not/did not do that unless someone altered the material to do so.

If that was the case, the vibranium mind would most likely explode when the miners go to mine it.

It's simpler than that. It's simply a matter of the suit taking in more energy at one time that it can discharge. That's really how ANYTHING can get overloaded. But presumably if it's viable protection for T'Challa then it takes a lot. HIs suit like anything else has it's limitations.

It's why writers give Superman kryptonite. Yes, it's a weird design flaw to have kryptonias vulnerable to their own planet, but it gives an achilles heel which can be exploited under certain circumstances. It's no different than the suit being able to be penetrated if you cut along the grains of it. Giving any sort of defense its limitations gives writers something extra to play with.

[chief12d]

There are two problems with Killmonger using his own advanced suit against T'Challa. Firstly, similar to the movie it becomes less about the skill of both men and more about their suits (one of the reasons why almost universally most people prefered their first fight to their second in the movie). Secondly, Killmonger doesn't have the intelligence or resources to compete with T'Challa in a battle over who has better gear. At best he can just steal T'Challa's stuff over and over again, but that's gonna get old pretty quick.

M'Baku getting some sort of magical suit does work better... though again I'd still say a man to man fight where they're seeing who is the better figther rather than who has the better suit is a more dramatic and satisfying confrontation. T'Challa proclaiming that his suit is better than M'Baku's just isn't the same. It's just not as personal or as satisfying IMO. It shouldn't be about their gear. THat's just placing the emphasis in the wrong direction. It works for Iron Man because having the fancier suit basically what his character is built around. But T'Challa should be handled differently.

His gear can scale up as needed, but it doesn't need to be on him 24/7 by default. Again, similar to Batman. He has access to gear which can help him fight Superman IF needed... but he doesn't go around wearing it when he's facing his rogues when he doesn't. If he or T'Challa can do it without they gear, they should. They have already proven they can, so using it is just a matter of making things easier for them. Which isn't necessary or preferable.

How does a hypothetical fight come down to the suits if the suits are virtually equal? The reason the second fight isn't as highly regarded as the first has to do with the shoddy CGI and since we're speaking in terms of comics there are ways to make close combat fights more dynamic than even the MCU either way. As Ezyo stated, there's cutting along the grain, choking, melting, etc. all of which emphasize hand to hand combat and/or battle tactics. A well equipped warrior isn't at a loss at how to fight T'Challa if the right elements and techniques are used. Plus, this is comics, there are 1000 different ways for a writer to contrive a way for Killmonger to have a suit of similar quality to his rival's. Rogue Wakandan scientists, stolen Klaw tech, collaboration with AIM or even Latveria, are all viable options to update the tech of a martial artist like KM if a creator truly wanted to. Hell, Killmonger is only incapable of building such a suit by himself until a writer says otherwise. So this idea Killmonger doesn't have the intelligence or resources is moot when you account for how narrative can change that in a single page.

M'Baku is the exact same. Giving him vibranium-enhanced wooden armor and magical weaponry is a substantial update to his character that levels the playing field while still allowing for complex hand to hand fights between him and T'Challa. By giving him those upgrades you've leveled the playing field so that the most important variable to decide the winner is skill, not who has the better suit. As stated before, between the multitude of ways to still defeat T'Challa even with the kinetic energy upgrades, by upping M'Baku's defense and offense you've given him a fighting chance he currently doesn't have.

T'Challa wouldn't be proclaiming he has the better suit because the suits nullify each other and put the emphasis on skill. This is preferable to downgrading T'Challa so that under regular circumstances he's threatened by a dude dressed in a gorilla suit that punches a little harder than Captain America. In ritual combat where they're stripped of all tech/magical assets that's cool, but there's no reason why M'Baku and Killmonger can't receive physical buffs via armor and weaponry while still having engaging close combat fights. Theoretically speaking, T'Challa's ability to barely tank strikes from the Hulk doesn't mean he can't be threatened by the likes of them or other characters like Wolverine and Captain America.

And the suit already scales up as needed. Killmonger and M'Baku don't have the striking strength of Namor so the kinetic energy T'Challa has to work with when fighting them is much lower. That's vastly different than Batman having suits that let him take on Superman because one is inherently variable in strength based off the enemy while the other has immutable power levels that make it unusable in the character's standard stories. And it's worth pointing out we're only talking about two rogues here.

The only rogues that are truly affected by this upgrade are Killmonger and M'Baku. Achebe could never fight on even ground with T'Challa and if he were ever upgraded to be able to do so he'd likely gain mystic abilities that can match the suit. Klaw has already proven himself able to hold his own in one of his best showings in years. T'Challa still needs prep to take down the likes of Namor or Moses Magnum (if written correctly). Assuming she's ever properly reintroduced Nakia isn't affected because she's a Catwoman style love interest and T'Challa shouldn't be fighting too seriously against her anyhow. Tetu is a full on nature mage now and can hold his own already while Zenzi isn't much of a fighter to begin with. White Wolf is affected I guess.

T'Challa's kinetic energy manipulation isn't nearly as detrimental or power level breaking as some are making it out to be. The majority of his rogues can weather the upgrade and those that can't only require minor updates in terms of armaments to become a viable threat again. Doing so doesn't remove tension because as has been said before, there are practical ways to still do damage to T'Challa that emphasize hand to hand skill and battle tactics. He's world renowned for this new upgrade and to compartmentalize it is unnecessary when the easiest option is having writers that understand this and invest in the rogues accordingly. They should also understand that due to the fact the suit gains kinetic energy to a large extent depending on how much damage he has soaked, that T'Challa doesn't always have the same energy levels against say Namor as he does Killmonger and that this impacts the flow of combat. It's really not that much to demand a writer recognize these basic facts and put the work in to elevate his rogues. T'Challa doesn't need to be stripped of his toys to show how manly he is, he needs rogues that are cool enough to challenge him blow for blow with his recent upgrades intact.

[XPac]

How does a hypothetical fight come down to the suits if the suits are virtually equal? The reason the second fight isn't as highly regarded as the first has to do with the shoddy CGI and since we're speaking in terms of comics there are ways to make close combat fights more dynamic than even the MCU either way. As Ezyo stated, there's cutting along the grain, choking, melting, etc. all of which emphasize hand to hand combat and/or battle tactics. A well equipped warrior isn't at a loss at how to fight T'Challa if the right elements and techniques are used. Plus, this is comics, there are 1000 different ways for a writer to contrive a way for Killmonger to have a suit of similar quality to his rival's. Rogue Wakandan scientists, stolen Klaw tech, collaboration with AIM or even Latveria, are all viable options to update the tech of a martial artist like KM if a creator truly wanted to. Hell, Killmonger is only incapable of building such a suit by himself until a writer says otherwise. So this idea Killmonger doesn't have the intelligence or resources is moot when you account for how narrative can change that in a single page.

M'Baku is the exact same. Giving him vibranium-enhanced wooden armor and magical weaponry is a substantial update to his character that levels the playing field while still allowing for complex hand to hand fights between him and T'Challa. By giving him those upgrades you've leveled the playing field so that the most important variable to decide the winner is skill, not who has the better suit. As stated before, between the multitude of ways to still defeat T'Challa even with the kinetic energy upgrades, by upping M'Baku's defense and offense you've given him a fighting chance he currently doesn't have.

T'Challa wouldn't be proclaiming he has the better suit because the suits nullify each other and put the emphasis on skill. This is preferable to downgrading T'Challa so that under regular circumstances he's threatened by a dude dressed in a gorilla suit that punches a little harder than Captain America. In ritual combat where they're stripped of all tech/magical assets that's cool, but there's no reason why M'Baku and Killmonger can't receive physical buffs via armor and weaponry while still having engaging close combat fights. Theoretically speaking, T'Challa's ability to barely tank strikes from the Hulk doesn't mean he can't be threatened by the likes of them or other characters like Wolverine and Captain America.

And the suit already scales up as needed. Killmonger and M'Baku don't have the striking strength of Namor so the kinetic energy T'Challa has to work with when fighting them is much lower. That's vastly different than Batman having suits that let him take on Superman because one is inherently variable in strength based off the enemy while the other has immutable power levels that make it unusable in the character's standard stories. And it's worth pointing out we're only talking about two rogues here.

The only rogues that are truly affected by this upgrade are Killmonger and M'Baku. Achebe could never fight on even ground with T'Challa and if he were ever upgraded to be able to do so he'd likely gain mystic abilities that can match the suit. Klaw has already proven himself able to hold his own in one of his best showings in years. T'Challa still needs prep to take down the likes of Namor or Moses Magnum (if written correctly). Assuming she's ever properly reintroduced Nakia isn't affected because she's a Catwoman style love interest and T'Challa shouldn't be fighting too seriously against her anyhow. Tetu is a full on nature mage now and can hold his own already while Zenzi isn't much of a fighter to begin with. White Wolf is affected I guess.

T'Challa's kinetic energy manipulation isn't nearly as detrimental or power level breaking as some are making it out to be. The majority of his rogues can weather the upgrade and those that can't only require minor updates in terms of armaments to become a viable threat again. Doing so doesn't remove tension because as has been said before, there are practical ways to still do damage to T'Challa that emphasize hand to hand skill and battle tactics. He's world renowned for this new upgrade and to compartmentalize it is unnecessary when the easiest option is having writers that understand this and invest in the rogues accordingly. They should also understand that due to the fact the suit gains kinetic energy to a large extent depending on how much damage he has soaked, that T'Challa doesn't always have the same energy levels against say Namor as he does Killmonger and that this impacts the flow of combat. It's really not that much to demand a writer recognize these basic facts and put the work in to elevate his rogues. T'Challa doesn't need to be stripped of his toys to show how manly he is, he needs rogues that are cool enough to challenge him blow for blow with his recent upgrades intact.

Don't misundestand... the suit really isn't and will likely never be detrimental or power breaking at all, because no writer will ever write a story that way. We're talking strictly how it works in theory, not in practice. In reality Killmonger or Man Ape will be just as effective as they need to be in combat against T'CHalla, regardless of what the suit is made of, because that's what is required of the story. When T'Challa fought Red Skull in Red Zone his vibranium suit might as well have been made out of toilet paper. Him being overpowered in comics will never be an actual problem because writers will never make it a problem. It's only an issue in theory. Stuff internet comic book fans to debate over. I'd prefer him not wearing the higher end gear as opposed to the suit magically not working when the story calls for it... but it's a nit pick.