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  1. #4426
    Amazing Member Gessela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    What at her powers/ abilities
    I'm still working that out, but definitely stealth cloaking and superior martial arts.

  2. #4427
    Amazing Member Gessela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Love the way the sabre resembles a tail.
    Thanks, I hadn't even noticed it.

  3. #4428
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    Yeah, Marvel loves his Cap run so much that they haven't shipped an issue of it since March, and the next one isn't due for another month.

    Admittedly, this is still better than BP, but not by much.

    Oh yes, and that issue that came out in March? Sold about 27,000 copies. After starting with 167,000 copies. An 83% drop in less than two years!

    At this point, I think it's less that Marvel editorial is letting him do what he wants, and more they realize nobody actually cares.

  4. #4429
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    Yeah, Marvel loves his Cap run so much that they haven't shipped an issue of it since March, and the next one isn't due for another month.

    Admittedly, this is still better than BP, but not by much.

    Oh yes, and that issue that came out in March? Sold about 27,000 copies. After starting with 167,000 copies. An 83% drop in less than two years!

    At this point, I think it's less that Marvel editorial is letting him do what he wants, and more they realize nobody actually cares.
    And it's that right there, for why it's such a tragedy that has befallen T'Challa and has hamstrung him for the last 4 year's, all the asspats from his literature buddies and everyone else wanting to pretend to be intellectual to use as their basis for the argument for people who dislike and see through the bullisht, we are left with this. A sad shoddy story about great concepts had they been brought on by Priest, Hudlin or Redjack, and A list artist that have very little to work with because the writer in question can't be bothered to form an actual story with moving plot and proper pacing.

  5. #4430

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    And it's that right there, for why it's such a tragedy that has befallen T'Challa and has hamstrung him for the last 4 year's, all the asspats from his literature buddies and everyone else wanting to pretend to be intellectual to use as their basis for the argument for people who dislike and see through the bullisht, we are left with this. A sad shoddy story about great concepts had they been brought on by Priest, Hudlin or Redjack, and A list artist that have very little to work with because the writer in question can't be bothered to form an actual story with moving plot and proper pacing.
    Another major challenge with a Black Panther comic is nailing down the African dialect in the dialogue. It's tricky, but Caotes had failed to do this on several occasions.

    Wakandans are supposed to be North East Africans. But for some reason, under Caotes' writing, Wakandans sound like Shakespearean Americans. This robs them of the gravitas and dignity that is deserved of them. Through dialogue, dialect is best expressed with diction (word choice), syntax (word order), grammar (how parts of speech are structured), and idiom (peculiarities of certain phrases). If Caotes had known this, he could have conveyed a natural-sounding dialect for the Wakadans which in turn would have provided the proper triggers for the readers that will help them imagine an accent.

    But again, Caotes didn't do his homework.

    Moving forward, whoever is chosen to write BP next, should take the time to study the accents and dialects of North-East Africa and get a feel for the regional syntax and diction of its people. So when it comes time to writing Wakandans, you can convey the character's proper gravitas, dignity, and authenticity through through their dialogue.

  6. #4431
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post

    Moving forward, whoever is chosen to write BP next, should take the time to study the accents and dialects of North-East Africa and get a feel for the regional syntax and diction of its people. So when it comes time to writing Wakandans, you can convey the character's proper gravitas, dignity, and authenticity through through their dialogue.
    I don't really agree with this. Not because it isn't cool... but it isn't realistic.

    Comic writers don't make enough money to study African dialects lol. I think it is a bit of an unreasonable request.

    I found Coates attempts to "add african" to BP to be insulting. Like he thought he was some great black historian adding authenticity to it but it just felt felt. The random words thrown in (Damisa sarki) is groan inducing and just introduces an un needed barrier.

    Id just settle for them talking like actual people instead of college professors.

    Now movies, the effort was put in and needed to be put in. But that is what 200mil dollar budgets can do.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  7. #4432
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I don't really agree with this. Not because it isn't cool... but it isn't realistic.

    Comic writers don't make enough money to study African dialects lol. I think it is a bit of an unreasonable request.

    I found Coates attempts to "add african" to BP to be insulting. Like he thought he was some great black historian adding authenticity to it but it just felt felt. The random words thrown in (Damisa sarki) is groan inducing and just introduces an un needed barrier.

    Id just settle for them talking like actual people instead of college professors.

    Now movies, the effort was put in and needed to be put in. But that is what 200mil dollar budgets can do.
    Wakanda isn't even in North-East Africa. Wakanda is bordered to the east by Lake Victoria, meaning it's located in roughly the area of Uganda and Rwanda, which are in East-Central Africa. Even then it doesn't even make sense for Wakandans to sound like them if we go with the idea that they've had little to no contact with people outside the kingdom. Wakandan would sound completely unlike anything on Earth and might as well be alien. It's one thing for them to have vague spiritual and architectural similarities to the rest of the continent but it's another for them to have similar diction and grammar.

    And like you said, writers don't get paid enough to do that much research nor is it necessary. But I think stuff like Damisa-Sarki and the Djalia is cool as long as their not overused. If Thor can have a bunch of Nordic names and concepts I see no reason a BP writer shouldn't add some unique words or phrases. The main issue with the Coates run is that he arguably has the best prose of any Black Panther writer but there's too much flowery language that makes it a chore to read.
    Last edited by chief12d; 07-06-2020 at 07:20 AM.

  8. #4433
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gessela View Post
    Thanks, I hadn't even noticed it.
    I will say it would be a suspension of disbelieve challenge to accept the scabbard wouldn't get in the way of martial arts or gymnastics, but it's a great look and a capable penciller could do it. After all, we've gone generations accepting that Batman's cape hasn't been his undoing yet.

  9. #4434

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I don't really agree with this. Not because it isn't cool... but it isn't realistic.

    Comic writers don't make enough money to study African dialects lol. I think it is a bit of an unreasonable request.

    I found Coates attempts to "add african" to BP to be insulting. Like he thought he was some great black historian adding authenticity to it but it just felt felt. The random words thrown in (Damisa sarki) is groan inducing and just introduces an un needed barrier.

    Id just settle for them talking like actual people instead of college professors.

    Now movies, the effort was put in and needed to be put in. But that is what 200mil dollar budgets can do.
    How is that not realistic? It was realistic for Hudlin and Preist to accomplish. Why not for Caotes? Caotes is an American journalist. he could have done the research.

    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Wakanda isn't even in North-East Africa. Wakanda is bordered to the east by Lake Victoria, meaning it's located in roughly the area of Uganda and Rwanda, which are in East-Central Africa. Even then it doesn't even make sense for Wakandans to sound like them if we go with the idea that they've had little to no contact with people outside the kingdom. Wakandan would sound completely unlike anything on Earth and might as well be alien. It's one thing for them to have vague spiritual and architectural similarities to the rest of the continent but it's another for them to have similar diction and grammar.

    And like you said, writers don't get paid enough to do that much research nor is it necessary. But I think stuff like Damisa-Sarki and the Djalia is cool as long as their not overused. If Thor can have a bunch of Nordic names and concepts I see no reason a BP writer shouldn't add some unique words or phrases. The main issue with the Coates run is that he arguably has the best prose of any Black Panther writer but there's too much flowery language that makes it a chore to read.
    You're right about Wakanda. It is an East-Central African nation. For some odd reason, Marvel wikia states Wakanda as a North-East African nation. My bad.

    ... But you're wrong about everything else.

  10. #4435
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I don't really agree with this. Not because it isn't cool... but it isn't realistic.

    Comic writers don't make enough money to study African dialects lol. I think it is a bit of an unreasonable request.

    I found Coates attempts to "add african" to BP to be insulting. Like he thought he was some great black historian adding authenticity to it but it just felt felt. The random words thrown in (Damisa sarki) is groan inducing and just introduces an un needed barrier.

    Id just settle for them talking like actual people instead of college professors.

    Now movies, the effort was put in and needed to be put in. But that is what 200mil dollar budgets can do.
    Yeah added in some African words and then threw in some African stereotypes, as well as everyone being Shakespearean stiffs who have no personality and all talk the exact same with depressed looks on their faces constantly. Atleast with Priest and Hudlin, you could feel the different personalities and each character had something about them. I would Take that any day over then sounding "African" especially Coates interpretation of it

  11. #4436
    Astonishing Member Blind Wedjat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post
    Another major challenge with a Black Panther comic is nailing down the African dialect in the dialogue. It's tricky, but Caotes had failed to do this on several occasions.

    Wakandans are supposed to be North East Africans. But for some reason, under Caotes' writing, Wakandans sound like Shakespearean Americans. This robs them of the gravitas and dignity that is deserved of them. Through dialogue, dialect is best expressed with diction (word choice), syntax (word order), grammar (how parts of speech are structured), and idiom (peculiarities of certain phrases). If Caotes had known this, he could have conveyed a natural-sounding dialect for the Wakadans which in turn would have provided the proper triggers for the readers that will help them imagine an accent.

    But again, Caotes didn't do his homework.

    Moving forward, whoever is chosen to write BP next, should take the time to study the accents and dialects of North-East Africa and get a feel for the regional syntax and diction of its people. So when it comes time to writing Wakandans, you can convey the character's proper gravitas, dignity, and authenticity through through their dialogue.
    I understand where you're coming from with this, and I don't think it would necessarily be too much work, but you have to be very specific and it might not be necessary.

    From my experience Nigerian people (where my family is from) speak completely differently from other people of other African countries I've interacted with. Therefore it might not be right to associate how Wakandans speak with one country in the continent. The best you could hope to manage is take different bits of inspiration from the countries that exist in the region Wakanda is located. And even at that, it's still a challenge because Wakanda isn't real and refused to assimilate with the immediate world around it, which theoretically should mean they shouldn't be borrowing from any other cultures. Of course the comics and other adaptations have broken those rules because inventing a whole new and completely unique culture is difficult.

    Secondly, Nigeria for instance has many different tribes (371 is the exact number reported) and even within one tribe there are many different dialects of the common language they speak. Why is that so? Well, blame colonialists who decided whatever plot of land they carved out was a country in which they owned, so you have a great number of people who probably shouldn't be in the same country (but that's a very political thing I don't want to get into). I haven't done my research into other African countries but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same case for quite a number of them. So even how you define a country's dialect is difficult because it's incredibly diverse. Wakanda is the same, isn't it? There are more than one tribe in Wakanda, and I think one thing the film did so well was show that kind of diversity within the country. I think it would be best if the comics reflected this as well.

    So how do you select how you want Wakandans to speak based on all of that? The research is complicated, and the implementation will be a challenge. All for what, really? At the end of the day, the best thing to do would be to consider that while Wakandans have their own traditions, they are a modern people. After all, they do speak English despite not being a former colonial power because they have to communicate with the outside world now. It's an advanced country, so they should sound educated, and not the weird Shakespearean and overly poetic and formal thing Coates was trying to do.

  12. #4437
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post
    How is that not realistic? It was realistic for Hudlin and Priest to accomplish.
    .
    ... when? post scans so I know what you are counting as "realistic?"
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

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  13. #4438

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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    ... when? post scans so I know what you are counting as "realistic?"
    I'm not posting scans. Walk over to your long box and pull out any issue from Hudlin's Black Panther run. And when you read the dialogue to yourself silently, you can hear the imaginings of an African accent emanating from each character's speech. It's natural-sounding.

    You know why? Because that's proper diction, syntax, grammar, and idioms at work.

    Caotes on the other hand had failed to achieve that. In Caotes' Wakanda, all Wakanadans sound Shakespearean. It's weird.
    Last edited by Common Writer; 07-06-2020 at 12:12 PM.

  14. #4439
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post
    I'm not posting scans. Walk over to your long box and pull out any issue from Hudlin's Black Panther run. And when you read the dialogue to yourself silently, you can hear the imaginings of an African accent emanating from each character's speech. It's natural-sounding.

    You know why? Because that's proper diction, syntax, grammar, and idioms at work.

    Caotes on the other hand had failed to achieve that. In Caotes' Wakanda, all Wakanadans sound Shakespearean. It's weird.
    There is a huge difference between "natural sounding" and what you wanted "take the time to study the accents and dialects of North-East Africa and get a feel for the regional syntax and diction of its people. "

    Non coates writers sound just like... people. Normal.

    Coates sound like scholars trying too hard.
    Black Panther Appreciation Blog: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.com/

    T'challa's Greatest Comic Book Feats: http://blackpanthermarvel.blogspot.c...her-feats.html

  15. #4440
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    Accents are difficult to do in text without sounding like a parody, anyway. Anyone who has read the Claremont X-MEN knows that, sugah.

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