Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ezyo1000]

Thought everyone might like this.
https://www.cbr.com/empyre-black-pan...ous-man-alive/

Words are meaningless my friend. SHOW don't tell. Unless we see T'Challa showcasing this and the cotati being genuinely afraid and fearful of him (with Ewing showing it on panel) it's all lip service

[Ezyo1000]

"Boy"?

That's an odd word for that sentence. Only one reason I can think of that they would use it. Lol.

My interpretation is that swordsman was calling quoi boy. "T'Challa of Wakanda. Boy the Black Panther"

[Cville]

My interpretation is that swordsman was calling quoi boy. "T'Challa of Wakanda. Boy the Black Panther"

Swordsman says "say his name", based on there position in the previous panel, Quoi is the one answering.

[Ezyo1000]

I get it, it's just Ewing has kind of been upfront about the fact that he doesn't believe in those kinds of character tiers so it's not something I would expect from him, but it's still disappointing all the same.

Conversely ANAD was probably one of the more controversial era's for the Marvel fandom.

I think at the end of the day it's all in the execution and the kind of changes you make.

ANAD failed because they didn't tell inspiring stories and just threw a ton of isht and hoped something stuck instead of trying to tell GOOD stories with the legacy characters

[Ezyo1000]

Swordsman says "say his name", based on there position in the previous panel, Quoi is the one answering.

Maybe it was a mistake on the bubble position because to me it appears it's swordsman saying it, plus the wording used "T'Challa of Wakanda, Boy. The Black Panther"

[Cville]

Maybe it was a mistake on the bubble position because to me it appears it's swordsman saying it, plus the wording used "T'Challa of Wakanda, Boy. The Black Panther"

It must because Swordsmen is standing closer to the tree trunk and the person making the BP statement is further away.

[MindofShadow]

Well I said what I said. There's no point having it being announced that the Big Three Avengers have chosen Marvel's premiere black character is now the leader of the Avengers, and have it be publicised everywhere, only for it to not matter where it counts the most.

Its gonna matter when he dies and marvel makes a big deal about it.

Marvel strategy... "black people stopped by his books anyway so we will kill him and go with the "negative press is good press" approach again!"

[XPac]

Of course some people will complain, but after a certain point, keeping the status quo for the sake of keeping certain people happy and comfortable --- especially when that comes at the expense of people who have been historically and continually marginalized by said status quo --- isn't a good way to move the superhero genre and comics industry forward.

Easy to say when we haven't actually seen the changes to the status quo.

Changing the status quo for the sake of moving the industry foreward doesn't sound bad on paper, until that change potentially means Shuri becoming Black Panther while T'Challa is fighting crime in Hells Kitchen or Jane Foster becoming Thor while Odinson is walking around with only one arm. Then a lot of older fans start becoming naustalgic for the previous status quo pretty quick and the term "woke" starts being thrown around.

Ultimtely it's a cycle. We get changes, then the writer that initiates it leaves and we return to the status quo before the next writer comes along and changes things in a different direction. Stuff ultimately won't stick. And that can suck if you like the changes, or be a godsend if you don't.

It's why stuff like T'Challa losing his title to Shuri or Thor losing his title to Jane usually doesn't bother me... I know it's not permament, so I can enjoy the story for what it is.

[DigiCom]

There are changes, and there are changes.

I should just leave it at that, but I'm on vacation, so I'll elaborate.

Some changes happen organically within the story. A character goes through an experience, and their personalty, behavior, or situation changes because of it. It's organic, part of the story, and makes sense.

Perfect example: Peter Parker getting married to his long-time girlfriend, after literally years of dancing around the question. It changed the status quo, but grew out of story.

Other changes, however, do NOT grow from story, but are clearly derived from real-world concerns & agendas.

Example: Peter Parker giving up his marriage to the literal Devil in order to reset the status quo to an earlier state, because editorial WANTED it done.

Now, you can quibble about specific changes as much as you like (I thought the BP/Storm marriage came off a bit forced. Others disagree. But their separation was DEFINITELY forced.)

Several years ago, as part of some work I did for a website called Fanzing, I wrote a bit of a thought experiment on this very topic. With your indulgence, I've pasted it below:

Imagine, if you would a large table. This is the DC Universe. Each title is a house of blocks on the table. You are a new writer.

Every issue is another few blocks…with skill, you expand on the work of the past, taking it in new directions, using your own style of construction. Occasionally, you enter the territory of another builder, but with cooperation you can build around him without destroying either's work.

There is always growth…you never destroy the foundation…or the entire structure may collapse. And in time…you finish your creation…and move on

So ask yourself this: Is a given change adding new blocks? Or simply kicking over the table?

[XPac]

There are changes, and there are changes.

I should just leave it at that, but I'm on vacation, so I'll elaborate.

Some changes happen organically within the story. A character goes through an experience, and their personalty, behavior, or situation changes because of it. It's organic, part of the story, and makes sense.

Perfect example: Peter Parker getting married to his long-time girlfriend, after literally years of dancing around the question. It changed the status quo, but grew out of story.

Other changes, however, do NOT grow from story, but are clearly derived from real-world concerns & agendas.

Example: Peter Parker giving up his marriage to the literal Devil in order to reset the status quo to an earlier state, because editorial WANTED it done.

Now, you can quibble about specific changes as much as you like (I thought the BP/Storm marriage came off a bit forced. Others disagree. But their separation was DEFINITELY forced.)

Several years ago, as part of some work I did for a website called Fanzing, I wrote a bit of a thought experiment on this very topic. With your indulgence, I've pasted it below:

Imagine, if you would a large table. This is the DC Universe. Each title is a house of blocks on the table. You are a new writer.

Every issue is another few blocks…with skill, you expand on the work of the past, taking it in new directions, using your own style of construction. Occasionally, you enter the territory of another builder, but with cooperation you can build around him without destroying either's work.

There is always growth…you never destroy the foundation…or the entire structure may collapse. And in time…you finish your creation…and move on

So ask yourself this: Is a given change adding new blocks? Or simply kicking over the table?

Peter Parker Marying MJ isn't a great example, since that was editorially mandated because of the marriage in the newpaper strip and they weren't even dating in the comics when the decision was made. The same thing which created the marriage ... an editorial mandate, in the end destroyed the marriage. There's almost a weird sort of symatry to that.

But I think your overall point is very valid. There is sort of a natural growth and progression to characters that is sometimes stunted because of the medium. Comics sliding time scale means these characters by nature have to be locked in a specific period of time for all eternity. You get these small windows of growth.... but you can only progress so far. Go too far and there's almost an inherent backlash against it. I'm not sure any other medium except maybe a cartoon like Family Guy or the Simpsons has the same issues as far as inhibiting organic growth.

That said... on a few occasions, kicking over the table actually did work.

[DigiCom]

That said... on a few occasions, kicking over the table actually did work.

Fewer than you might think. DC is STILL cleaning up the fallout from Crisis.

[chief12d]

Easy to say when we haven't actually seen the changes to the status quo.

Changing the status quo for the sake of moving the industry foreward doesn't sound bad on paper, until that change potentially means Shuri becoming Black Panther while T'Challa is fighting crime in Hells Kitchen or Jane Foster becoming Thor while Odinson is walking around with only one arm. Then a lot of older fans start becoming naustalgic for the previous status quo pretty quick and the term "woke" starts being thrown around.

Ultimtely it's a cycle. We get changes, then the writer that initiates it leaves and we return to the status quo before the next writer comes along and changes things in a different direction. Stuff ultimately won't stick. And that can suck if you like the changes, or be a godsend if you don't.

It's why stuff like T'Challa losing his title to Shuri or Thor losing his title to Jane usually doesn't bother me... I know it's not permament, so I can enjoy the story for what it is.

I think that's a separate discussion though. Legacies are one way of introducing status quo shifts but as you said those are temporary. Huntsman is referring to permanently elevating Black Panther and Captain Marvel to the echelon of the Big 3 Avengers. Aaron already hinted at a desire to do that as far as T'Challa is concerned, saying he wants it to be the Big 4, but when push comes to shove in line-wide events, the two lag behind the Avengers Trinity.

For example, the T'Challa leadership scene we got in the Empyre: Avengers tie-in would've been great to add to the main event issues, but it's left to a side book. The very fact we even got a scene like that in the first place shows Marvel is trying, but as fans of the character and people who want to see Marvel as a whole advance, it's fair to expect more.

It's one thing to push a legacy character but then revert to the status quo after 3-5 years, it's another to weave a character into the fabric of the MU and give them relatively equal billing with more established franchises. To fail at the latter feels like lip service to the ideal of diversity that Marvel's been chasing after. It's great to have a black man leading the Avengers but if he's not getting big moments when it really matters (big time stories that will affect the whole MU), then it feels like an empty attempt to placate the Twitter crowd.

But I think it's worth pointing out the event isn't over yet and things could change next issue. T'Challa seems to a big character in issue 3 of Empyre and hopefully he continues to be a big player in the Avengers tie-ins. Carol has her own tie-ins with her solo and we'll have to see if that affects the event significantly.

[KingNomarch]

At least one writer remembers that he's supposed to be the most dangerous man alive. Now it'll be nice if we get to see that too.

[MindofShadow]

At least one writer remembers that he's supposed to be the most dangerous man alive. Now it'll be nice if we get to see that too.

So dangerous that he needs to be eliminated. lol

In my fantasy land, T'challa is "killed" in that issue.

But he isn't. He faked his own death and is planning things behind the scenes. No one really knows it. It is only hinted out. until some reveal in the second to last issue that dudes been pulling the strings in the war from Necropolis.

But then I wake up.

[Cville]

So dangerous that he needs to be eliminated. lol

In my fantasy land, T'challa is "killed" in that issue.

But he isn't. He faked his own death and is planning things behind the scenes. No one really knows it. It is only hinted out. until some reveal in the second to last issue that dudes been pulling the strings in the war from Necropolis.

But then I wake up.

He is on the cover of an Xbook in October that's part of the X event. If Storms' sword was his grave marker, that would be interesting. It looks like they're pulling swords out of anywhere so why not. Lol.