Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Micabe]

Storm identifies as Black and African.

So does BET entertainment

"Born Ororo Munroe to a tribal princess of Kenya and an African-American photojournalist father, Storm is raised in Harlem, New York City, United States and Cairo, Egypt."

[XPac]

No it's a combination:

-Lack of showing much of a tech for the most advanced nation on earth.

- Unexplained failure of the Wakandan Force field despite literally the previous issue they being why Wakanda resisted invasion and was faring so well.

- Fans accepting and even defending the previous points instead of criticizing the writers and artists lack of creativity and straight up laziness.

And no, the excuse of well this is the main book also doesn't work because Hickman bad zero issues showing wakandan tech (advanced tech as well) in tro when they best back Black dwarf and destroyed Atlantis. The two splash pages of Wakanda that we saw in empyre could of easily shown a prowler on the back ground and airships. Abd they could of thrown in something about why the cotati are getting in, even of it was a simple "we are letting small, controlled groups on to better exterminate them effectively" or something. What we got is diet infinity war Wakanda

Sure we could have had some prowlers thrown in there... just like we could have some prowlers thrown in with the fight against Morlun. But we didn't because the writers felt it wasn't important enough to do it. And that's not necessarily an unfair criticism .... it's something some creative teams can do a better job with. All that said, if we end up with a force field and a panther megazord by the end of the story I'd still say this was a better than average showing tech wise. But we'll see. The panther megazord is still up in the air.

[MoneySpider]

T'Challa wasn't the ruling BP, Shuri was.

Being King of the dead only meant that he could raise the dead and talk to his ancestors. That had nothing to do with enhanced strength, speed, stamina or reflexes.

He was basically Dr. Voodoo.

At the time that T'Challa became King of the Dead, Hickman stated that T'Challa was now superhuman. That sounds like a whole lot of enhancements to me, especially since before when he had the heart-shaped herb he was only considered to be peak human, I think. Plus, as King of the Dead, T'Challa went toe-to-toe with one of Thanos' bulky Black Order people (I forgot his name). To me, that would suggest an enhanced strength feat.

[XPac]

At the time that T'Challa became King of the Dead, Hickman stated that T'Challa was now superhuman. That sounds like a whole lot of enhancements to me, especially since before when he had the heart-shaped herb he was only considered to be peak human, I think. Plus, as King of the Dead, T'Challa went toe-to-toe with one of Thanos' bulky Black Order people (I forgot his name). To me, that would suggest an enhanced strength feat.

I think he was enhanced by KotD... but I don't think he was enhanced a whole lot. Honestly I think he could have beaten Black Dwarf without the KotD powers, and likely without even the hsh. Black Dwarf was sort of the underachiever of the Black Order.

[Ekie]

Panther also went hand to hand with Namor under Hickman's power up. He definitely saw an increase. Black Dwarf was a serious theat who survived a heavy blow from Thanos then fought 4 cosmic powerhouses alone. It's beyond satisfying for a writer to finally define Tchallas power level as superhuman. Very tired of peak human chains holding him bacl.

[XPac]

Panther also went hand to hand with Namor under Hickman's power up. He definitely saw an increase. Black Dwarf was a serious theat who survived a heavy blow from Thanos then fought 4 cosmic powerhouses alone

Yeah, Black Dwarf fought 4 powerhouse alone but the key point there is he not only lost but died the very first hit. So fighting 4 cosmic powers doesn't necessarily mean you're actually in the same league as 4 cosmic power houses. I'd be more willing to actually believe this guy was a serious threat if he'd ever done anything even remotely impressive. His best showing was against Shang Chi... who he failed to actually drop. So I honestly think with or without KotD T'Challa would have beaten Black Dwarf. I don't think the power upgrade really would have made a difference.

[chief12d]

I think he was enhanced by KotD... but I don't think he was enhanced a whole lot. Honestly I think he could have beaten Black Dwarf without the KotD powers, and likely without even the hsh. Black Dwarf was sort of the underachiever of the Black Order.

There's nothing to conclusively say how strong pure KotD abilities are compared to regular BP powers. But T'Challa's physicality seemed unchanged so I'd lean towards it being the ghostly equivalent of the powers Shuri had while she was queen.

[Ezyo1000]

Sure we could have had some prowlers thrown in there... just like we could have some prowlers thrown in with the fight against Morlun. But we didn't because the writers felt it wasn't important enough to do it. And that's not necessarily an unfair criticism .... it's something some creative teams can do a better job with. All that said, if we end up with a force field and a panther megazord by the end of the story I'd still say this was a better than average showing tech wise. But we'll see. The panther megazord is still up in the air.

Hudlin didn't fail to showcase tech though, he had all types of Wakandan tech and firepower hitting morlun. This is not even the same comparison as Hudlins showing massive firepower and empyre? Diet infinity war. Couldn't even be bothered to show The actual Wakandan army, or Sonic spears or anything other then a shield.

And there is no guarantee that the panther Gundam is going to show up. Given what we have seen, I don't have any faith it will, or that we will see much in terms of Wakandan tech either and trust me, I would LOVE to be proven wrong

[XPac]

There's nothing to conclusively say how strong pure KotD abilities are compared to regular BP powers. But T'Challa's physicality seemed unchanged so I'd lean towards it being the ghostly equivalent of the powers Shuri had while she was queen.

It's really hard to say in comics because everything short of say Spiderman pretty much looks the same. And even Spiderman half the time doesn't look all that different than say Daredevil.

It's why I sometimes miss those handbooks from the 80's.

[Redjack]

"Born Ororo Munroe to a tribal princess of Kenya and an African-American photojournalist father, Storm is raised in Harlem, New York City, United States and Cairo, Egypt."

Yeah. i know her history. I was there the first time it showed up.

You obviously haven't read House of X. Especially issue #5, pages 13 through 17.

She identifies as a mutant. That is her tribe, those are her people, her family, her brothers and sisters.

I don't make this stuff up.

[classicgmer]

Yeah, Black Dwarf fought 4 powerhouse alone but the key point there is he not only lost but died the very first hit. So fighting 4 cosmic powers doesn't necessarily mean you're actually in the same league as 4 cosmic power houses. I'd be more willing to actually believe this guy was a serious threat if he'd ever done anything even remotely impressive. His best showing was against Shang Chi... who he failed to actually drop. So I honestly think with or without KotD T'Challa would have beaten Black Dwarf. I don't think the power upgrade really would have made a difference.

Yeah it was pretty amazing how people were trying to make Black Dwarf the be all to end all of Brick type characters. He got in a handful of licks on some pretty powerful guys but was also dispatched of fairly quickly. He didn't accomplish anything in that fight that a bunch of other villanous brick type guys in Marvel's catalouge couldn't have but somehow stating this is slighting or trying to diminish BP beating him.

[chief12d]

Yeah it was pretty amazing how people were trying to make Black Dwarf the be all to end all of Brick type characters. He got in a handful of licks on some pretty powerful guys but was also dispatched of fairly quickly. He didn't accomplish anything in that fight that a bunch of other villanous brick type guys in Marvel's catalouge couldn't have but somehow stating this is slighting or trying to diminish BP beating him.

That's probably is a part of the reason why SOME "fans" do it, but it's not wrong so I judge the intention on a case by case basis. Though if we're being entirely honest, none of the Black Order have been that impressive since their initial appearance so it doesn't matter much at this point. Black Dwarf could be a decent recurring rogue for T'Challa when he goes on adventures to his space colonies as a kind of intergalactic bounty hunter (with Thanos dead and all).

[XPac]

Yeah it was pretty amazing how people were trying to make Black Dwarf the be all to end all of Brick type characters. He got in a handful of licks on some pretty powerful guys but was also dispatched of fairly quickly. He didn't accomplish anything in that fight that a bunch of other villanous brick type guys in Marvel's catalouge couldn't have but somehow stating this is slighting or trying to diminish BP beating him.

Yeah, I think it might have been better for Tchalla if Black Dwarf had actually beaten anyone before Tchalla beat him. Then it would have meant something.

[classicgmer]

That's probably is a part of the reason why SOME "fans" do it, but it's not wrong so I judge the intention on a case by case basis. Though if we're being entirely honest, none of the Black Order have been that impressive since their initial appearance so it doesn't matter much at this point. Black Dwarf could be a decent recurring rogue for T'Challa when he goes on adventures to his space colonies as a kind of intergalactic bounty hunter (with Thanos dead and all).

I think they're ok enough characters but i think Hickman really oversold how powerful they were before infinity ever even began. Proxima and Corvus did some flat out absurd damage to Hulk and Hyperion but that to me was more a case of their weapons being overpowered and they really haven't done anything quite as impressive since.


They had i think a pretty decent showing against Nova in that mini series they had a year or two back but they individually can't take on squads of Avengers or however it was Hickman initially described them unless there's like zero powerhouses on said Avengers squad.

[XPac]

I think they're ok enough characters but i think Hickman really oversold how powerful they were before infinity ever even began. Proxima and Corvus did some flat out absurd damage to Hulk and Hyperion but that to me was more a case of their weapons being overpowered and they really haven't done anything quite as impressive since.


They had i think a pretty decent showing against Nova in that mini series they had a year or two back but they individually can't take on squads of Avengers or however it was Hickman initially described them unless there's like zero powerhouses on said Avengers squad.

Dwarf aside, they all looked reasonably impressive until Secret Wars. Even when losing to the Avengers in Infinity they came off as beasts. But Secret Wars onward, they became after thoughts and were jobbed out off panel.

It's sort of funny how they tried to oversell Dwarf in description bio prior to Infinity. The description says he might have unbreakable skin, but in his first fight with T'Challa they show him cut up and bleeding. In his second (and last) fight in Hickmans run you had Ronan literally cave his head in. He definately did not live up to the hype. For whatever reason, I almost think Hickman was trying to make him the Black Order equivalent of Meg from family guy.

As far as weapons... I DO think 80% of the threat level of Proxima came from that staff of her. It was pretty scary. She was able to basically one shot Spectrum and Hulk with it on seperate occasions... and those are 2 of the most powerful beings on the planet. Without the staff, she was still able to dominate Luke Cage but not really put him down. So that probably put her around Thing level without the staff. Powerful to be sure, but not uber beastly.

COrvus staff was able to hurt Hyperion (which is very impressive), but not outright one shot KO him like Proximas staff could with Hulk or Spectrum. So it was powerful, but not quite as uber. But I'm not sure we saw him do anything without his weapon, as he didn't really fight without it like Proxima.

But overall I agree a big part of their game was clearly their weapons.