Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ekie]

Flex you make a valid point.
I would say his gallery needs to level up and also the next writer needs to define limits and vulnerabilities if this is the case.

[XPac]

Well we just saw one materialize and grab Thor's hammer. So whether black panther asked him to do that or not doesn't kind of matter because he did it. We need to figure out why that happened and the easiest explanation is that black panther wanted it to

I don't think a anyone materialized, so much as it was just a flashback of the previous BP wielding the hammer in the past.

[Ekie]

I don't think a anyone materialized, so much as it was just a flashback of the previous BP wielding the hammer in the past.

Well whether he materialized or not the hammer missed for a reason that was tied to Bashenga. How and why? You've already stated that it wasn't technology. And it certainly isn't Shadow physics

[chief12d]

I don't agree. Tchalla walking down the streetshould be as dangerous as Doom walking down the street day to day. His mind makes that so. Physical attributes...sure spiderman but faster..but combined with his skill and intellect he should slay multiple spiderman. Jason Aaron understands this. Johnathan Hickmon does as well. Priests panther should be the standard carried through each writer as far as capabilities and threat level. Combine that with the fact that he's physically powered up since then as well as advanced his tech.
I have no interest in Daredevil threat level Tchalla

T'Challa's intelligence isn't gonna help him much in a straight up fight against Spider-Man. I agree that with prep and/or full access to his resources T'Challa would beat Peter pretty handily, but without any tricks or convenient circumstances (like a direct counter to Peter's superior reaction time) I think he's legitimately threatened.

T'Challa is as deadly as Doom, but that's always been less a reference to his direct firepower and more to his strategic and scientific mind. He should be clearly above the likes of Daredevil and Moon Knight (as we've seen just today) but I don't think T'Challa's regular gear (Force Push, energy daggers, claws) lets him easily beat Spider-Man, which once again is not a bad thing. But you should take my words with a grain of salt because I'm not a huge powerscaler lol.

[Ekie]

T'challaa seems to be a character that hides things until he absolutely needs them. Maybe we don't know what he's been hiding since the reset since coats had no idea nor did he care.

[Ekie]

T'Challa's intelligence isn't gonna help him much in a straight up fight against Spider-Man. I agree that with prep and/or full access to his resources T'Challa would beat Peter pretty handily, but without any tricks or convenient circumstances (like a direct counter to Peter's superior reaction time) I think he's legitimately threatened.

T'Challa is as deadly as Doom, but that's always been less a reference to his direct firepower and more to his strategic and scientific mind. He should be clearly above the likes of Daredevil and Moon Knight (as we've seen just today) but I don't think T'Challa's regular gear (Force Push, energy daggers, claws) lets him easily beat Spider-Man, which once again is not a bad thing. But you should take my words with a grain of salt because I'm not a huge powerscaler lol.

It's established that black panther is faster than Spider-Man. That was in Spider-Man's own book. And the real T'challa's mind helps him in every fight he's in. Even back when he was using angles to tackle Spider-Man decades ago before all his (T'challa's) power-ups. His brain is a bigger weapon than his claws. let's not forget that he fully de-powered himself in Hell's kitchen and then disabled Luke Cage using nothing but his knowledge of pressure points. He's a walking problem whether he's prepped or not.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that t'challa by nature in the ritual fights likes to fight his opponents on equal terms. Maybe it's an ego thing or maybe it's cultural. He went to Hell's kitchen and left all of his powers behind him. Tested himself and then came back to the panther God after visions of annihilation to be empowered to his fullest potential ( atleast according to the story).
And yes, Maybe we didn't get that in practice from all of the writers Marvel let handle the character. But that power level increase was the editorial intent otherwise Hickman would NOT have written an entire fantastic four issue about the Black Panther powering up through his ancestors. The narrative going forward was that he was the King of the Dead, newly empowered after being shown his people's death by his god. Bast wanted him to have enough power to face all threats and he accepted that . Maybe now we're seeing it.
Ewings T'challa, Hickman's, And now Jason Aaron's have all been pulling off out of this world things. If anybody knows the direction that Marvel was trying to get the character to go it's them

[chief12d]

It's established that black panther is faster than Spider-Man. That was in Spider-Man's own book. And the real T'challa's mind helps him in every fight he's in. Even back when he was using angles to tackle Spider-Man decades ago before all his (T'challa's) power-ups

It's not out of the realm of possibility that t'challa by wakandan nature in the ritual fights likes to fight his opponents on equal terms. Maybe it's an ego thing or maybe it's cultural. He went to Hell's kitchen and left all of his powers behind him. Tested himself and then came back to the panther God after visions of annihilation to be empowered to his fullest potential according to the story.
And yes, Maybe we didn't get that in practice from all of the writers Marvel let handle the character. but that was the editorial intent. That was the narrative going forward that he was the king of the Dead newly empowered after being shown death. Best wanted him to have enough power to face all threats and he accepted that . Maybe now we're seeing it.
Ewings T'challa, Hickman's, And now Jason Aaron's have all been pulling off out of this world things. If anybody knows the direction that Marvel was trying to get the character to go it's them

I don't disagree that T'Challa is faster, I'm just saying that there are differences in traits between him and Peter that could potentially lead to him losing every now and then. Not that he stands no chance ever or that he'd demolish Peter every time, just that I don't see him winning every single matchup, let alone against multiple Spider-Men at once.

I see T'Challa at base level as a mid-tier hero, which isn't a bad place for a character to be when they can scale up to godly levels with tech and prep. Ewing's T'Challa achieved what he did with tech and prep, as did Hickman's (outside random stuff like teleportation which I never liked the character having anyway). Aaron's just thrown random tech at the situation and when he gave T'Challa a genuine 1v1 fight he outclassed his opponent so much he didn't even need more than his standard gear.

[Ekie]

I don't disagree that T'Challa is faster, I'm just saying that there are differences in traits between him and Peter that could potentially lead to him losing every now and then. Not that he stands no chance ever or that he'd demolish Peter every time, just that I don't see him winning every single matchup, let alone against multiple Spider-Men at once.

I see T'Challa at base level as a mid-tier hero, which isn't a bad place for a character to be when they can scale up to godly levels with tech and prep. Ewing's T'Challa achieved what he did with tech and prep, as did Hickman's (outside random stuff like teleportation which I never liked the character having anyway). Aaron's just thrown random tech at the situation and when he gave T'Challa a genuine 1v1 fight he outclassed his opponent so much he didn't even need more than his standard gear.

I don't think Marvel sees him that way anymore. Hickman's Tchalla fought the black dwarf, multiple war machines, Black swan, and Namor physically hand to hand without prep and won. How do they compare to spider-man?

Ewings T'challa fought multiple cosmic powerd Venom midless ones on battle world i believe. We know how regular venom compares to Spider-Man

And Aaron's...well he just punked Mjonir using Bashenga

Maybe this is the all-new all different Black Panther that Coats has deprived us of. He was intent on giving us a black Spider-Man rather than a black Superman after all according to his interviews and who are Marvel to tell him no?

[MoneySpider]

Honestly I don't think he literally has the strength or the knowledge and experience of the previous BP's. Not literally at least. I think KotD just means he can talk to them (though talking obviously can grant him knowledge if they have any info to him which is actually useful).

Years ago, Hickman tweeted to someone about the King of the Dead powers that "the knowledge is the real get", so I do think T'Challa is supposed to literally have the knowledge and experience of all the previous Black Panthers. The strength thing was vague to me because it wasn't specified whether that meant physical strength or inner/mental strength/toughness.

[Ekie]

Also the problem with seeing t'challa as a mid-level base tier hero is that by wakandan law unless I'm mistaken any mid-level base hero/Villain has a chance to walk into wakanda on a random Sunday and take his throne physically through challenge.
That's a mistake that needed corrected and was due to lack of growth in publication history. Spider-man has power crept why can't Tchalla finally get his rightful progress? because the only people that should be able to do that are monarch level heroes and villains like Doom, Black Bolt, Namor ect. That's his playing field not Spiderman. I would rather believe that the Tchala is on their level or at least a challenge to them on any given Sunday based on his mind first and abilities/technology second.

Hickman, Ewing, and Arron have been writing a Tchalla that can do that.
Coats Tchalla just my lose the kingdom to Wolverine on an off day.

The villains that challenge Tchalla best are political not physical. So I think characters like Mbaku and Achebe (while both could use a powerup) still work as a threat

This doesn't mean i want a Tchalla that is unbeatable or anything. Just a Tchalla that is never outclassed.

[chief12d]

I don't think Marvel sees him that way anymore. Hickman's Tchalla fought the black dwarf, multiple war machines, Black swan, and Namor physically hand to hand without prep and won. How do they compare to spider-man?

Ewings T'challa fought multiple cosmic powerd Venom midless ones on battle world i believe. We know how regular venom compares to Spider-Man

And Aaron's...well he just punked Mjonir using Bashenga

Maybe this is the all-new all different Black Panther that Coats has deprived us of. He was intent on giving us a black Spider-Man rather than a black Superman after all according to his interviews and who are Marvel to tell him no?

The BD fight was infamously off-paneled so we don't know what happened. I don't wanna be that guy but for all we know he had help lol. The energy gauntlets he used to beat down Namor were almost definitely prep or at the very least it's fair to assume they are because they were about as random as Aaron's recent tech. We haven't seen them since so it's just a one-off thing that can't be considered part of his regular powerset.

And during Contest of Champions when T'Challa fought those half-Venom monsters the team was losing lol. They had to get saved by a second party and outside of slashing a few of them T'Challa wasn't shown taking any out. Hell, they had a buddy system in that fight. So at best he survived a fight against multiple Venoms with help from a teammate, which is impressive but doesn't show him as some omega-level or base Doom-level fighter.

And we don't know what happened with the hammer, just that there was some magic involved I guess but more importantly, it looked like T'Challa knew it would happen, which makes it more of a prep/Aaron's poor writing feat than a straight combat one. His ancestry saved him, no special tech or powers of his own. Which goes to show my point. Simply put, I think T'Challa's power levels have been upgraded as of late (which is great), but I don't think Marvel sees him as anything more than a mid-level hero who scales up as needed. Circumstances and prep/tech allow him to take on gods as the situation (plot) requires it.

[Ekie]

Years ago, Hickman tweeted to someone about the King of the Dead powers that "the knowledge is the real get", so I do think T'Challa is supposed to literally have the knowledge and experience of all the previous Black Panthers. The strength thing was vague to me because it wasn't specified whether that meant physical strength or inner/mental strength/toughness.

Maybe it's just me but it looks like he used that knowledge in Avengers 36 vs Thors hammer

[Agent Z]

Bp fans have allowed for a tamed / de-powered hero. Mystic power is African in origin. Why deny BP these abilities unless the creators want him to be pacified? Dr. Strange should NOT be more powerful than BP.

It’s unusual for BP fans to complain when y’all MFs are so quick to forsake actual-factual-cultural & historic evidence.

CAB played the role of THOTH (MUN-TU) in Gods of Egypt (Thoth is the father of "Spells") YOU TEACH YOUR CHILDREN HOW TO... SPELL


Eight mystical spells and powers used by Doctor Strange in Avengers Infinity War


We can prove historically that Dr. Strange should not be as powerful as BP. But BP fans don’t want to upset nerds & biased fan-boys. There is a dark-side to this comic-book ish.

Why do y’all think people (like Muad’Dib) fight so hard for the characters? Because you all have accepted Mediocracy.

Do y’all really want the best for our hero or do you want to get along to get by? I’m callin’-out employees @ these companies & I’m putting them on blast! Even @ the risk of my own creative endeavors (not really, I’m the best of the best)

They better put their heads down in shame when I bring-up WWO. It's not about the $$$$$. We want respect not cash.

“BP fans are the worst “ – some random comic-fan

What proof is there that Strange should not be more powerful than T'Challa? How do you even know mystic power really is African in origin?

[Ekie]

The BD fight was infamously off-paneled so we don't know what happened. I don't wanna be that guy but for all we know he had help lol. The energy gauntlets he used to beat down Namor were almost definitely prep or at the very least it's fair to assume they are because they were about as random as Aaron's recent tech. We haven't seen them since so it's just a one-off thing that can't be considered part of his regular powerset.

And during Contest of Champions when T'Challa fought those half-Venom monsters the team was losing lol. They had to get saved by a second party and outside of slashing a few of them T'Challa wasn't shown taking any out. Hell, they had a buddy system in that fight. So at best he survived a fight against multiple Venoms with help from a teammate, which is impressive but doesn't show him as some omega-level or base Doom-level fighter.

And we don't know what happened with the hammer, just that there was some magic involved I guess but more importantly, it looked like T'Challa knew it would happen, which makes it more of a prep/Aaron's poor writing feat than a straight combat one. His ancestry saved him, no special tech or powers of his own. Which goes to show my point. Simply put, I think T'Challa's power levels have been upgraded as of late (which is great), but I don't think Marvel sees him as anything more than a mid-level hero who scales up as needed. Circumstances and prep/tech allow him to take on gods as the situation (plot) requires it.

since we don't have a solo writer capable of explaining why those things happened I'm just guessing same as you are. We don't know if the energy gauntlets versus Namor were completely tech or tied into some past Panthers knowledge of blending tech and spiritual energy. Hickman never dove into that because I assume that he thought a solo writer would later on since Hickman wasn't the best with details during a huge ensemble book like that. We never got that solo writer.
And yes the dwarf fight was off panel but before it went off panel they clearly talked about going one-on-one and looking for each other. I doubt t'challa shyed away from that challenge. We've seen what he does in battlefield's like that during See Wakanda and Die. If someone calls him out he doesn't ask for help or run away. Ask the headless Superskrulls.. He beat the black dwarfs ass by himself most likely according to how he operates.

[chief12d]

Also the problem with seeing t'challa as a mid-level base tier hero is that by wakandan law unless I'm mistaken any mid-level base hero/Villain has a chance to walk into wakanda on a random Sunday and take his throne physically through challenge.
That's a mistake that needed corrected and was due to lack of growth in publication history. Spider-man has power crept why can't Tchalla finally get his rightful progress? because the only people that should be able to do that are monarch level heroes and villains like Doom, Black Bolt, Namor ect. I would rather believe that the Tchala is on their level or at least a challenge to them on any given Sunday based on his mind and abilities and technologies at second.

Hickman, Ewing, and Arron have been writing a Tchalla that can do that.
Coats Tchalla just my lose the kingdom to Wolverine on an off day.

The villains that challenge Coachella best are political not physical. So I think characters like Mbaku and Achebe (while both could use a powerup) still work as a threat

Wakandan law doesn't even recognize the outside world though. Namor or Wolverine can't just waltz in and challenge T'Challa for the throne, only a Wakandan can do that (unless the king decides otherwise I guess). And everything we've seen so far indicates you don't use special powers or anything during a tribal challenge (except KM), just cunning and martial arts. Though we've seen Nehanda use magic which begs the question of whether Wakandans can use that or mutations during a fight against the BP.

T'Challa's gotten substantial upgrades over the years lol, if there's one thing we can't criticize Marvel for it's giving him updates to his powers. Vibranium weave suit, kinetic energy manipulation, all types of energy blades, massive tech feats, and legitimate wins against other top tier fighters. The T'Challa of today obliterates 10 T'Challa's from the Don McGregor days and I'd even say the T'Challa we saw today (which should be the standard) wipes the floor with Priest's in a straight up fight (no prep or additional toys allowed).

T'Challa not being able to scrap with Black Bolt or Namor at the drop of a hat isn't an insult or something to be worried about. T'Challa's thing has NEVER been firepower, it's been top tier martial arts and advanced personal tech that elevates him to mid-level.

People don't call him the Most Dangerous Man in the World because he hits the hardest or shoots the more powerful laser. It's his ability to think ahead and manipulate coupled with virtually endless resources and supertech that allows him to rival guys guys like Thanos or Doom.