Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[skyvolt2000]

Except we are not writing the books, are we?

Of course you have the right to criticise,...no one is debating that.
But the idea that you , me and the majority of readers on this forum can do a much better job (given ALL the parameters within which you HAVE to work?)...that is highly questionable.

If those parameters are trashing black men-guess what I wouldn't take the job.

Because that seems to be the requirement for this book. Black men must be written inferior to everyone.

It is not highly questionable since we have someone who did it-Redjack. Don't forget there are professional writers on this forum.

We may not be writing the book-yet it's Marvel's job to get someone to write the book that gets folks SPENDING money on it.

Without variants or tie ins to inflate sales.

There books out there NOT doing that and have improved on sales while this one has gotten WORST.

Don't think Marvel gave away free access to everything Black Panther was just done for Boseman. It was done for Coates too for those last 3 issues.

[skyvolt2000]

And until you are writing these characters for Marvel in a professional setting earning a paycheck (like Liss and Coates) I have only your word here in this forum that you are any good.

Working for Marvel is not a requirement. Better writers haven't gotten the chance to write or even pitch at Marvel because of the good old boy network.

Vita is a BETTER writer outside of Marvel.

[Marvell2100]

And until you are writing these characters for Marvel in a professional setting earning a paycheck (like Liss and Coates) I have only your word here in this forum that you are any good.

You don't have to take my word for anything just like I don't have to take your word that these writers are good because you say they are.

There are some people writing in a professional setting at comic companies earning paychecks for crappy work.

[Devaishwarya]

That's okies. We don't know each other like that.

And whether or not these writers are good is purely subjective...The same ones who "Yass Queen" and giving high praise when Coates is writing Storm over T'Challa in BP's own damn book are the same ones ripping Vita for not writing Storm they way they think and believe she should be written regardless of the fact that Vita is a much better writer than Coates could ever be. Subjectively, speaking of course.

[Redjack]

i've been on CBR since long before they purged the old boards. before i was employed anywhere as any kind of writer.

i [redacted]ing love comic books. LOVE.

it's absolutely possible, even likely, that the next greatest creators for marvel and dc are right here, right now, somewhere.

and yes, the handshake network was in full effect for nearly a century, preventing new voices and new blood from entering on the writing side. if you follow sports you'll know, for a slightly shorter time, there were no black quarterbacks even LONG after the NFL was integrated. Zero black coaches for even longer. Those are considered brain positions, control positions, and they aren't handed out by the powers that be easily.

but competition from other media created desperation in the upper ranks. so did a (predictably) dwindling fanbase, so did the fact that both of the big two have been absorbed by companies that are interested in meeting the MOST people in the fanbase they possibly can rather than just catering to a bunch of aging white males.

so doors got opened. doors continue to open. lots of us are getting to swing.

what nearly all of us have in common is success, sometimes massive success, in other media PRIOR to being accepted at either of the big two. Some folks around here need to take that as a lesson in how the real world of freelance art works for non-white creators.

I'm not a fan of croneyism but the truth is, if Gerry Duggan hadn't mentioned my name to Axel, I would never have gotten that first call. I was WELL into my TV writing/producing career at the time. I'd already created several comics on my own and even then I was quizzed and vetted as if I was some noobie.

A lot of people won't put up with that. Money-wise, writing comics is not even close to a lateral move. The salary to write a comic isn't even a tenth of what we make to sell one script for tv. so anyone who comes from a successful novel career or tv career to write comics is doing so because they LOVE them. no other reason. Everyone in the audience should assume that love. Even for the creator takes you don't like.

I don't personally like the Coates run but i don't spend time bashing his take. it's not my take. i would do it differently. so what? of course i would. i'm not him and he's not me. different writers do different things. that's life. if i'd won out in that pitch session there would certainly be a thread like this one where people bashed my version of the panther. I know Reggie Hudlin personally and I will die on the hill that putting T'Challa and Ororo together was an error. But Reggie gave us SHURI. For that alone, he deserves praise and respect.

I've read a lot of criticism of Coates but a few of the things he did should stand the test of time. If i got to write the book, I wouldn't be going in with an eye to sweeping the board clean but i would make a lot of changes. because I'm me, not him.

and some people would hate those changes.

i don't think it needs to be such a fight all the time about this stuff. Lots more good stuff is coming. a lot of people are trying new stuff and a lot more are coming after them. some of those people are here, right now.

I support the trying. all the trying. even the stuff i don't like.

[Marvell2100]

That's okies. We don't know each other like that.

And whether or not these writers are good is purely subjective...The same ones who "Yass Queen" and giving high praise when Coates is writing Storm are the same ones ripping Vita for not writing Storm they way they think and believe she should be written regardless of the fact that Vita is a much better writer than Coates could ever be. Subjectively, speaking of course.

We don't have to agree on everything because we all have opinions.

What some people like, others don't. I don't have any problem with Vita. I think there was a way that they could have handled things but they did what she did. And if what they did brings a complete end to the BP/Storm relationship or whatever then they have my extreme gratitude.

[Anthony Shaw]

There are a lot of people who don't know how to write comics in Marvel right now.

Imagine Shuri, former Black Panther and genius inventor choosing to fight Ororo with a sword. Over some new f*cking sword no one has ever heard of that she claims will literally ruin Wakanda if it was stolen.

What the hell was that???

I've been reading silver & bronze age Marvel in 2020. I can't take these modern stories. One would think modern stories would have a more keen & nuanced level of character interplay.

I highly doubt Storm would ever steal from Kate & Jean, but clearly brought her thief gear to steal from Ramonda & Shuri.

[XPac]

I've been reading silver & bronze age Marvel in 2020. I can't take these modern stories. One would think modern stories would have a more keen & nuanced level of character interplay.

I highly doubt Storm would ever steal from Kate & Jean, but clearly brought her thief gear to steal from Ramonda & Shuri.

She'd steal from anyone if it were necessary. Sometimes that's part of the job. If its potentially some sort of world saving thing, you do what you gotta do and apologize for it later.

[Ekie]

Which is just as well...because there are a lot of readers who always think they can do a much better job at writing these characters and going by the reactions and posts I've seen today alone on Storm and T'Challa...are 100% wrong.

Ill remind you that before
Writing Panther, Coats had as much comic book experience as all of us...and less for some posters

[Ekie]

And until you are writing these characters for Marvel in a professional setting earning a paycheck (like Liss and Coates) I have only your word here in this forum that you are any good.

"Critcism" in these forums are usually just another way of saying "My idea is better and the story would be better if the writer wrote it this way."

Your confusion comes in the fact that you think we are criticizing their writing ability when we're really just criticizing their knowledge of the source material. So if you're going to pretend like they are some Grand stage in Marvel history lore then by all means do you. Some of us have been posting about this character longer on this forum then a lot of these writers Marvel is allowing to touch him have even know he existed

[Pulp Fiction]

Yall were right. Coates spent the majority of 5 years mostly focusing on this relationship and an x writer tore it down with 1 issue. Wake me up when things get better for BP.

[chief12d]

I think writers need to understand that pushing Storm as T'Challa's "one true love" is a damaging thing for the character and his mythos that should've died in 2012. He's the king of an ancient xenophobic warrior society that didn't have extensive contact with the outside world until roughly a decade ago when he took the throne.

So while contrary to popular belief, T'Challa cares about the outside world despite his misgivings about its institutions/culture, he will put his kingdom first. In all but the most extreme circumstances of course, as seen when he refused to blow up billions of innocents in order to save Wakanda.

But barring moments like that T'Challa is willing to sacrifice his own morality, happiness, and security as well as his friends, lover, and even his own mother if it means protecting Wakanda. That's the type of king he is and that's the tragedy of his character so he needs love interests that can conform to that.

Storm was never going to work because she'll never put love or Wakanda above mutantkind and T'Challa is just gonna come off as pussywhipped if he keeps pursuing someone that would exploit their relationship for the benefit of a people not his own. So Marvel needs to give this dude a native Wakandan woman who's on the same page as him or someone who has no life or purpose in the West that can grow into being Wakanda's protector. Hopefully the next writer does both.

[Killerbee911]

I think writers need to understand that pushing Storm as T'Challa's "one true love" is a damaging thing for the character

I agree with except that Storm as T'challa one true love who he can never be together with works well. Storm as the old flame is perfect. Storm as the active girlfriend isn't that good.

[Vordan]

Being a mutant means Storm was never ever going to really “belong” to the Black Panther franchise. And given Marvel puts more value on the X-Men than BP, Storm arguably holds a greater rank of importance in editorial’s eyes, which is a problem when T’Challa is meant to be the main character and the most important person in his book. It was never going to end well imo. It’s time to recenter T’Challa as the main star of his book.

[chief12d]

I agree with except that Storm as T'challa one true love who he can never be together with works well. Storm as the old flame is perfect. Storm as the active girlfriend isn't that good.

I think it does more harm than good because it forces every woman he meets into being this half measure, a place saver for Storm that T’Challa can never truly become invested in. It’s not healthy for the development of a good love interest for Monica or Nakia to always be not-Storm in the eyes of his fan base or the narrative of the BP books. Storm should be an old flame from his teenage years he tried dating every now and then in adulthood but they’ve grown apart and don’t dwell on what could’ve been.

No fairy tale romances, one true loves, or Romeo and Juliet ****. Good friends and occasional friends w/ benefits but I don’t care to see T’Challa spilling his heart out to Storm anymore and everyone commenting on their “special” relationship. I think a large degree of separation is needed at least for now as they build separately.