Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Vanguard]

Dang! I just noticed this. BP looks like a doughboy in the bottom panel!

Lay off those Ororo...I mean Oreo cookies man.

He does. Probably just more of the bad art I constantly bring up when it comes to drawing TChalla in his own books. Except this art is decent except for that panel.

[Overhazard]

I just can't wrap my head around the need to tear the character down.

I think when Coates started his run, deconstructions were all the rage, so he was just following a trend.

[Anthony Shaw]

I don't think that's a story we'll ever get, because I'm not sure they have anything worth stealing in a world saving capacity.

I literally LOL'd when I read this.

Heroes do what they gotta do. If the rules were reversed and Tchalla needed to steal something from Krakoa I'm sure he'd do it. Its sometimes a part of the job.

Being honorable to a fault is kinda T'Challa's thing, even during a universal crisis. He's been written that way for decades.



Even cosmic level enemies know this.



I always felt this was one of the qualities that drew Storm to BP, given the contradictory tendencies of several X-Men characters. But in relationships, some people actually exploit this for personal gain.

[Cville]

I literally LOL'd when I read this.



Being honorable to a fault is kinda T'Challa's thing, even during a universal crisis. He's been written that way for decades.



Even cosmic level enemies know this.



I always felt this was one of the qualities that drew Storm to BP, given the contradictory tendencies of several X-Men characters. But in relationships, some people actually exploit this for personal gain.

Is this more of that Roy Thomas nonsense?

[dkrook]

Let me know when x-writers do a story where Storm steals from her ivory sisters.

^^^. Love that smoke, cause we will never see that happen. Matter of fact if memory serves me correctly, Storm completely bodied Bishop and his own shotgun to his face when she was chastising him for being a hardass in a way that she had never done to Wolverine who kills people like its a Thursday. The X-office problem with T'Challa is a black male issue in general.

[Anthony Shaw]

Same reason they deconstruct many of his peers. Thor, Cap, Iron Man ... if you look at their last couple years, they have had it pretty rough too. How many of them have lost mantles or their powers or even their lives?

Part of it is that I think writers today want to put their characters through the ringer. It's not enough to have them fight and ultimately beat the same villains they've beaten a dozen times before. I think the level of conflict has had the bar raised in recent years.

The other issue I think being a concerted effort to push diversity in the form of legacy characters. But for Sam and Jane and Miles and Shuri and Iron Heart to get their opening, the originals often have to take a temporary hit to give them a bit of spotlight.

You would not believe how much money I have saved by not buying books that feature them.

IMO, folks take the Alan Moore / Frank Miller deconstruction technique way too far. If writers are gonna break the character, they have to build the character back up into something better, or just as durable as before. Current writers break characters, then the next set of writers continue the process when ever diminishing returns.

Cap, Thor, and Iron Man went all went through the ringer during the 1980's, but were never truly broken.

Iconic comic characters feel broken, and new characters feel hollow.

Give everyone their chance to shine by booking all the characters strong, without making other characters look bad. Don't use characters you can't find a voice for.

You break characters when they are at a dead end, like the Swordsman.

[dkrook]

Same reason they deconstruct many of his peers. Thor, Cap, Iron Man ... if you look at their last couple years, they have had it pretty rough too. How many of them have lost mantles or their powers or even their lives?

Part of it is that I think writers today want to put their characters through the ringer. It's not enough to have them fight and ultimately beat the same villains they've beaten a dozen times before. I think the level of conflict has had the bar raised in recent years.

The other issue I think being a concerted effort to push diversity in the form of legacy characters. But for Sam and Jane and Miles and Shuri and Iron Heart to get their opening, the originals often have to take a temporary hit to give them a bit of spotlight.

However balance comes in the form of Iron Man gets ever increasingly powerful armors, and Thor power slides continuously to cosmic god levels. Cap will always be the default best of all heroes. Now tell me again where's the swing peaks for T'Challa?? He gets so many (l)ows I can't remember the highs.

[Anthony Shaw]

What I tend to find funny about this situation is that this is spun as a "YAAS QUEEN" moment because it's Storm deciding to put herself and her people before a man and his kingdom. Yet this story is almost certainly set up for said man and his kingdom to play an even bigger role in Storm's life in a future storyline lol.

Whether they reconcile and end up back together is anyone's guess (I doubt it) but it's ironic that of the two major Storm-centric stories with the X-Men one of them relates to her ex and the upcoming story will likely do the same. For a woman who doesn't need T'Challa Storm is sure milking her relevance off of him and his mythos. This is a classic case of fans not knowing what they want other than baseless gratification. I get it, but it's funny the way these stories are perceived.

You right as rain. Meanwhile, Storm sits at a table with Mister Sinister, the man who wiped out the Morlocks. You know, the community Storm was the leader of.

The level of silent fail from the queen is epic.

[Overhazard]

Is this more of that Roy Thomas nonsense?

Those scans look like they're from The Korvac Saga, I don't think Thomas wrote that.

[Anthony Shaw]

Is this more of that Roy Thomas nonsense?

That's Jim Shooter, but just about everyone got wrecked in that story, with Thor being almost the last one standing. I actually enjoyed how Jim wrote T'Challa. The scans don't present it well (my fault), but Jim clearly wrote a distinction between T'Challa and Hank Pym. T'Challa is honorable to a fault when Hank is like f^$k that. Jim went on to completely break Pym a few years later with the backhand heard 'round the world.

[chief12d]

You would not believe how much money I have saved by not buying books that feature them.

IMO, folks take the Alan Moore / Frank Miller deconstruction technique way too far. If writers are gonna break the character, they have to build the character back up into something better, or just as durable as before. Current writers break characters, then the next set of writers continue the process when ever diminishing returns.

Cap, Thor, and Iron Man went all went through the ringer during the 1980's, but were never truly broken.

Iconic comic characters feel broken, and new characters feel hollow.

Give everyone their chance to shine by booking all the characters strong, without making other characters look bad. Don't use characters you can't find a voice for.

You break characters when they are at a dead end, like the Swordsman.

Yea I think the easiest way to assess the effectiveness of a deconstructionist take is to ask what the end result is. Did we learn anything new about T'Challa as a man or hero in the 4 years Coates has been on the book? Has T'Challa as a character learned anything new about himself and get a new worldview or understanding of something? Where have we seen T'Challa be elevated and gain genuine wins under his belt while also being personally happy? What contributions to T'Challa on a thematic and characterization level has Coates made in 4 years?

There aren't any good answers to any of these imo so Coates' deconstructionist take on BP failed.

[Anthony Shaw]

^^^. Love that smoke, cause we will never see that happen. Matter of fact if memory serves me correctly, Storm completely bodied Bishop and his own shotgun to his face when she was chastising him for being a hardass in a way that she had never done to Wolverine who kills people like its a Thursday. The X-office problem with T'Challa is a black male issue in general.

She gave Wolverine permission to kill during the Morlock Massacre, iirc.

T'Challa has a nobility & purity that is non-existent with most of the male mutants. As a long time X-fan, I've seen the writers taint the male mutants. In my head canon, I see exactly why she would be drawn to T'Challa.

But back to reality, one of thing thing about the X-Men was it had a noticeable black fanbase during the 1980's. This was evident during conventions where X-Men booths had a large black turn-out. This was one of the reasons Bishop was introduced as a black man (I believe he was meant to be Asian).

I just don't understand why Storm is used to defecate on other black characters.

[Cville]

She gave Wolverine permission to kill during the Morlock Massacre, iirc.

T'Challa has a nobility & purity that is non-existent with most of the male mutants. As a long time X-fan, I've seen the writers taint the male mutants. In my head canon, I see exactly why she would be drawn to T'Challa.

But back to reality, one of thing thing about the X-Men was it had a noticeable black fanbase during the 1980's. This was evident during conventions where X-Men booths had a large black turn-out. This was one of the reasons Bishop was introduced as a black man (I believe he was meant to be Asian).

I just don't understand why Storm is used to defecate on other black characters.

Same reason they had Vita write only this issue. Lol

[XPac]

However balance comes in the form of Iron Man gets ever increasingly powerful armors, and Thor power slides continuously to cosmic god levels. Cap will always be the default best of all heroes. Now tell me again where's the swing peaks for T'Challa?? He gets so many (l)ows I can't remember the highs.

Its easy enough to argue Tchalla gear has gotten more powerful if that's what one equates to as balance.

But really for him and all these guys in general just returning to status quo is the balance. We're talking about millionaires, gods, and kings ... an average day to them is considered a high to almost anyone else. These were the heroes other heroes wish they were. Which I suppose is part of the reason they get deconstructed more often than most ... those with the most have the most to lose.

[Anthony Shaw]

Yea I think the easiest way to assess the effectiveness of a deconstructionist take is to ask what the end result is. Did we learn anything new about T'Challa as a man or hero in the 4 years Coates has been on the book? Has T'Challa as a character learned anything new about himself and get a new worldview or understanding of something? Where have we seen T'Challa be elevated and gain genuine wins under his belt while also being personally happy? What contributions to T'Challa on a thematic and characterization level has Coates made in 4 years?

There aren't any good answers to any of these imo so Coates' deconstructionist take on BP failed.

I agree with all of this. Four years of wasted material. But even worst, BP was deconstructed by the last several writers post Hudlin, with the exception of Liss. You have a good decade of stories to avoid.

To me, this is the responsibility of the editors to keep the writers focused. Marvel editorial has been bad for a long time.