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  1. #901
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium Weave View Post
    I am not a fan of the Panther habit of being a sleeker version of the iron man armor either ( this is one of the issues I had initially with Jason Aaron's Avengers run). What would you have as T'Challa's standard gear?
    well, people seem to forget, T'Challa's a meta human. He's basically the natural herb version of Captain America (also, i invented a really cool but very low-key superpower to help him beat people's asses and make him a match for guys like Wolverine and Taskmaster) so...

    the habit would have stealth-enhancing tech, vision-enhancing tech, some stuff to allow takeovers of computers and networks as needed, low-key comm and holo tech, vibranium claws (natch) and vibranium palms and treads for jumping off skyscrapers and landing clean.

    anything else would be mission-specific additions.

    sorry, probably wouldn't go with force pulse type stuff as standard equipment.
    Last edited by Redjack; 02-02-2020 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #902
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    well, people seem to forget, T'Challa's a meta human. He's basically the natural herb version of Captain America (also, i invented a really cool but very low-key superpower to help him beat people's asses and make him a match for guys like Wolverine and Taskmaster) so...

    the habit would have stealth-enhancing tech, vision-enhancing tech, some stuff to allow takeovers of computers and networks as needed, low-key comm and holo tech, vibranium claws (natch) and vibranium palms and treads for jumping off skyscrapers and landing clean.

    anything else would be mission-specific additions.

    sorry, probably wouldn't go with force pulse type stuff as standard equipment.
    I've never been a fan of force push as standard gear ... it replaces skill with tech and puts the emphasis on the gear instead of the man.

    Aunt May in theory can be a credible threat against any moderate level threat hand to hand wearing that suit. So where does the credit for the suit stop and Tchalla start in a fight when he's wearing it?

    Thats why I'm glad the Civil War movie went out of its way to show Tchalla fight Bucky without the suit. We know where he stands.

  3. #903
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm not blaming Utopia for their unhappiness. The inherent problem is the people, not the place because the place is defined by the people. But because people are inherently flawed, the place inevitably will be too.
    The problem is the word "inevitably". It basically denies the capability of people to transcend their baser natures.

    It reminds me of a line from Neil Gaiman's Sandman:

    “All Bette's stories have happy endings. That's because she knows where to stop. She's realized the real problem with stories—if you keep them going long enough, they always end in death.”

    Serial fiction, like comics, have this issue worse than most. That does not mean, however, that one must rush to that ending... because that ends the story.

  4. #904
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Yeah, I wouldn't qualify Storm and Eden as guest either. One is dating Shuri (or at least starting to have a relationship with her) and the other is dating T'Challa, so they're sort of regulars. Nothing particular weird about them showing up. Cage and the rest are guests though. Writer wanted to use them, so it did. In part it's probably a case of an agenda at work here... he wanted to give some of the african american characters a bit of spotlight, so he did rather than doing the more logical (from an in universe perspective) thing of calling on the Avengers who obviously don't need the spotlight. But that's not the worst thing in the world.
    Its okay to have regulars Hudlin had Storm feature heavily in his run
    But the difference is we KNEW that otnwas T'Challas book, he was the driving force and everyone was there to support HIM. Coates has shifted Storm and Eden in and sidelined T'Challa abd his caste

  5. #905
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    The problem is the word "inevitably". It basically denies the capability of people to transcend their baser natures.

    It reminds me of a line from Neil Gaiman's Sandman:

    “All Bette's stories have happy endings. That's because she knows where to stop. She's realized the real problem with stories—if you keep them going long enough, they always end in death.”

    Serial fiction, like comics, have this issue worse than most. That does not mean, however, that one must rush to that ending... because that ends the story.
    I think think some people can transcend their base nature. I might even be generous and say most. But there are always bad apples ... in any and every society we've still had murderers and rapists and every other thing a super needs to punch out in super hero fiction.

    I don't think we have gotten utopia in real life or in the marvel universe, and I don't think we ever really will. But who knows ...

  6. #906
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Its okay to have regulars Hudlin had Storm feature heavily in his run
    But the difference is we KNEW that otnwas T'Challas book, he was the driving force and everyone was there to support HIM. Coates has shifted Storm and Eden in and sidelined T'Challa abd his caste
    You can make the arguement Storm sidelined Tchalla in the second season but she was barely in the first and third. And Eden for most of Coates run is just kinda there ... the recent season at least is doing more with him.

    But I would agree they do more than the non super hero members of his supporting cast, and that was equally true under Hudlin. When the supporting cast member is an actual super hero they tend to get more action.

  7. #907
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    You can make the arguement Storm sidelined Tchalla in the second season but she was barely in the first and third. And Eden for most of Coates run is just kinda there ... the recent season at least is doing more with him.

    But I would agree they do more than the non super hero members of his supporting cast, and that was equally true under Hudlin. When the supporting cast member is an actual super hero they tend to get more action.
    But… and this is something people have said in this thread for quite literally years, they should not be used at the expense of the main character!

    It's called "supporting cast" for a reason. They are meant to provide dramatic support to the man (or woman) who's name is on the cover.

    Under Coates, T'challa is supporting everyone else. Especially Storm.

  8. #908
    Incredible Member Vibranium Weave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    well, people seem to forget, T'Challa's a meta human. He's basically the natural herb version of Captain America (also, i invented a really cool but very low-key superpower to help him beat people's asses and make him a match for guys like Wolverine and Taskmaster) so...

    the habit would have stealth-enhancing tech, vision-enhancing tech, some stuff to allow takeovers of computers and networks as needed, low-key comm and holo tech, vibranium claws (natch) and vibranium palms and treads for jumping off skyscrapers and landing clean.

    anything else would be mission-specific additions.

    sorry, probably wouldn't go with force pulse type stuff as standard equipment.
    So, I guess your're not a fan of the vibranium weave and energy daggers, as well.

    I feel that Panther's heightened senses are neglected often. I don't think he on par with say Daredevil (honestly how many characters are on par with Murdock), but probably wolverine or close to it. Also writers seem to not utilize his natural night vision as originally mentioned in FF 52.

  9. #909
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr MajestiK View Post
    And yet, as usual, the fact that neither Steve Roger's or Peter Parker have never been left in a position of perpetual failure for ongoing or concurrent runs as has been the case for T'Challa under Coates misdirection.

    Captain America lost none of his overall potency, tactical awareness or overall will to win even whilst corrupted.

    Post Hudlin 9r even Liss, when was the last time T'Challa was portrayed as anything other than a complete and utter failure within the pages of his own solo book?
    I would personally count One More Day and the status quo it ushered in via literal Faustian bargain as a case of perpetual failure for Spider-Man, not to mention that for a long time after that, it felt like he wasn't nearly as competent, capable, or even mature as he used to be. That being said, I can definitely understand and concur with your point about how Black Panther has been handled for the last . . . has it been four years now?
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #910
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DigiCom View Post
    But… and this is something people have said in this thread for quite literally years, they should not be used at the expense of the main character!

    It's called "supporting cast" for a reason. They are meant to provide dramatic support to the man (or woman) who's name is on the cover.

    Under Coates, T'challa is supporting everyone else. Especially Storm.
    Again, I can buy that arguement in the second season. But for the first and third Storm was barely on it. When she was used, she shined. But when you're absent fir like 90% of the story, I don't think its that huge of a problem.
    Last edited by XPac; 02-02-2020 at 07:16 PM.

  11. #911
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Multiply the numbers by a billion and it still applies.

    If someone or a million someones are unhappy in a utopia, you're blaming the utopia for their unhappiness. That sounds like a lack of personal accountability.
    Exactly, ita an excuse. Wakanda is a beacon and a Utopia but because it's not absolutely perfect the obvious thing is to take it to a dystopia according to Coates.

  12. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Again, I can buy that arguement in the second season. But for the first and third Storm was barely on it. When she was used, she shined. But when you're absent fir like 90% of the story, I don't think its that huge of a problem.




    Yeah, Storm is barely a part of the story…

  13. #913
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    well, people seem to forget, T'Challa's a meta human. He's basically the natural herb version of Captain America (also, i invented a really cool but very low-key superpower to help him beat people's asses and make him a match for guys like Wolverine and Taskmaster) so...

    the habit would have stealth-enhancing tech, vision-enhancing tech, some stuff to allow takeovers of computers and networks as needed, low-key comm and holo tech, vibranium claws (natch) and vibranium palms and treads for jumping off skyscrapers and landing clean.

    anything else would be mission-specific additions.

    sorry, probably wouldn't go with force pulse type stuff as standard equipment.
    I think your shield youbhad T'Challa use against Thor was the force push equivalent and I think it works to accomplish the same task but makes it active instead of passive. Im honestly fine with both. As fir the habit. I think the cloth just needed to eventually upgrade but still keep the microweave style

  14. #914
    Mighty Member Redjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibranium Weave View Post
    So, I guess your're not a fan of the vibranium weave and energy daggers, as well.

    I feel that Panther's heightened senses are neglected often. I don't think he on par with say Daredevil (honestly how many characters are on par with Murdock), but probably wolverine or close to it. Also writers seem to not utilize his natural night vision as originally mentioned in FF 52.
    I think it weakens the character for him to rely on his tech the way Iron Man does. It works for Stark because that's the POINT of Iron Man. Heroes need to be unique. You have to create them in such a way that T'Challa and Stark would absolutely not solve their problems in anything like the same way.

    it's not about the suit and the gadgets. it's about the man.

  15. #915
    Incredible Member Vibranium Weave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redjack View Post
    I think it weakens the character for him to rely on his tech the way Iron Man does. It works for Stark because that's the POINT of Iron Man. Heroes need to be unique. You have to create them in such a way that T'Challa and Stark would absolutely not solve their problems in anything like the same way.

    it's not about the suit and the gadgets. it's about the man.
    I can see your point.

    For the longest time I had an issue with vibranium energy damping boot soles that Priest gave Panther. I initially didn't like how he could fall 50 ft and land like a cat/nothing happened. This changed for me after reading Ultron Unlimited. After reading that story, I do not feel the vibranium weave, energy daggers, kimoyo card ( or kimoyo wearable system as shown in Ultimates or Rise of the Black Panther), vibranium energy damping boot soles, & force push is too much for him. That plus his heightened senses,616 Captain America level strength & speed, martial arts abilities, and genius level mind is enough for most situations. I personal feel that the antagonist & thread level BP faces should be increased.

    I think the tech displays his intelligence and resources. Also, I agree with Priest that how does the warrior king of the most technological advance country not use effect gear to defend himself effectvely in battle?

    Also, vibranium is still breakable, unlike adamantium, so BP still has his challenges (like how Iron Fist broke the suit apart when they fought)

    I feel his threat level/villains should be increased. His villains should be a threat for someone who is the warrior king of the most technologically advanced country. I think this is possible, based on the works of Priest, Hudlin, & Narcisse. Your show showed that as well with his dealing with the Atlantians, Inhumans & Avengers.

    I still think it's ridiculous for BP to walk on water lol.
    Last edited by Vibranium Weave; 02-02-2020 at 08:12 PM.

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