Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Besouro]

To be somewhat fair, Daredevil constantly gets his life turned upside down and torn apart, starting with Frank Miller's "Born Again" and the subsequent writers that tried to follow in his footsteps, ultimately culminating in him going outright villain (albeit with help from demonic possession/corruption) in Shadowland, not to mention the current arc where he'll end up in jail due to having accidentally killed someone. Spider-Man has had a constant cycle of runs and arcs where it seems like he's finally getting over the so-called "Parker Luck," and then "The Parker Luck" comes back with a vengeance to tear him down and force him to start all over again. (Hell, he even made a literal Faustian pact with Mephisto, whom T'Challa outwitted and overcame in Christopher Priest's Black Panther series, and if you go by the latest Avengers, that might have turned Spider-Man into a potential pawn for Mephisto to use against the Avengers.) Can't say as much for Wolverine, Captain America, or the Punisher, but Batman is currently having everything he's built up torn down and dismantled piece by piece thanks to Joker War, also resulting in the IRS actually looking into his alter ego's finances, meaning he can't use Wayne Enterprises as a piggybank for his vigilantism anymore. However, I do see the issue that when all those characters get torn down, they eventually get built back up as good as they were before, if not better --- and T'Challa doesn't seem to be getting the same as of late.

I agree on DD but not Spidey and Bats.

When Spidey and Bats are getting torn down....such plot doesn't cut across all their monthly titles. There will always be a Spidey and Bats title with a different story of the character going on as their usual kick-ass so readers who ain't into seeing their prime favs getting torn down can easily ignore that arc and still get they regular dose of the usual.....and these alternatives are monthly ongoings not just guest starring or panel appearances in team books.

BP fans don't have that option....until *VERY* recently with Agents of Wakanda, Ultimates, Avengers, etc away from the nonsense TNC and his cohorts were doing.

[Besouro]

All those guys have had their lives ripped apart. The differences is that they all got redemption arcs where they not only got their just due but they weren't pyrrhic victories. They actually beat down the villains who put them thru hell. BP doesn't get those opportunities. he just gets put thru hell and gets to deliver some bs speech.

Well said !!!!

[Besouro]

And I think that's the key distinction. Putting a character through hell is not the issue. It's them not rising above it and actually getting something out that experience that's the problem. With the characters you're discussing (Batman, Spider-Man, etc.) they'll get their asses beat, lose a loved one, fail horribly, but they nearly always come out the experience better and don't dwell on it for years on end.

And even in the process of going through a rough storyline they'll still be convincingly competent and cool, like Batman in Joker War or Daredevil in Born Again. Hell, this is basically what T'Challa dealt with in New Avengers and why it's considered by some the best writing the character's gotten. He took constant Ls that entire run but the core of his character was for the most part maintained and by the end he "won" when Wakanda and everyone he cared about was restored.

The difference between T'Challa and those other characters is exactly what you pointed out. They get writers who understand a character can't be 98% deconstruction and 2% greatness. Batman always gets rebuilt and taken back to his status quo, not having entire runs centered around single events or stories from years prior and wallowing about his failure. Meanwhile T'Challa and characters like John Stewart are still complaining about stuff that happened years ago and aren't allowed to move on. They never seem able to reclaim their confidence or have stories that don't tie back to their biggest failures or defeats.

Agreed and co-signed!

[Besouro]

Coming back to this, a burning question is, if this is how powerful Wakanda and it's people are. What type of threat's without giving out too much, would Wakanda face? Obviously the super skrulls would be apart of the mix, but for home-grown villains how would you elevate them to be a threat to T'Challa, or Wakanda?

The 1MYM/ One Million Year Man.....a BP supervillain with intergalactic villainy capabilities given a few twiks.

The Supremacists...simply make this a team of superpowered people each from a different corner of marvel (a X-Men/x-gene mutant, an inhuman, an evil eternal, a human/super skrull hybrid, a Vibranium mutates, etc) who believe having powers make them superior to ordinary humans therefore ordinary humans are a poison to the genetic advancement of human race.

The Dragon Circle and Soul Strangler

Villainous Vibranium mutates - frankly it makes utterly zero sense why Wakanda does not have its own V-gene mutants both heroes/good guys like Vibraxas and villains.

King Cadaver- make him master of rot, rust, decay and dead things (zombies inclusive)

Klaw- this guy is the MASTER OF SOUND and should be displayed as such (like in the EMH toon) not some cheap handicap mercenary ....unless the idea is that he eventually becomes the master of sound. Last time we saw BP face fully Master of sound Klaw in comics was in Priest's run .....over 20yrs ago.

Solomon Prey

Madam Slay

Achebe

All the above are existing BP villains who can be truly formidably compelling supervillains for BP given few tricks here n there.

[XPac]

Right, I would have loved to see T'Challa have a presence in the outlawed storyline. I wonder if there's some kind of standing policy on Black Panther being shown as a power mover? Who else can go into America assist, save, or fight along side with complete immunity from prosecution. Let's see his influence outside of Wakanda.

Not reading Outlawed, but I wonder if T'Challa having the power he does would frankly be the reason why you wouldn't want him in the story. If he can offer political asylum or protection to them, it pretty much neuters the threat. The Champions especially in this sort of story need to be the underdogs on the run.

Eventually the Avengers probably will be dragged into this, but that will probably be at the end of the story.

[MindofShadow]

But one the other hand, the fact that BP is still gonna be added to the game and the fact that its future isn't looking to bright right now, I'm worried that this reduces our chances of getting that single player narrative, AAA game. It'll be so easy for Disney and Marvel to look at this as the one way to get the character (as well as other ones) into the gaming world. But now that it seems to be failing, I wonder if this will actually give them confidence to make either a much better version of this game or give the characters that deserve and can carry their own single player narratives a chance.

prolly means they will just double down on spider-man and batman

next up, a Spider-Gwen off shoot lol

[Overhazard]

prolly means they will just double down on spider-man and batman

next up, a Spider-Gwen off shoot lol

If the Miles Morales Spider-Man game does well enough, which it probably will, I could honestly see a Gwen game down the pipe. Disney isn't going to foot the bill for a BP game, they don't care about video games. it's honestly surprised me how much Disney doesn't care about games, outside of mobile stuff, Kingdom Hearts, and once in a blue moon, Tron. Maybe it's a chicken and egg thing. They don't care because the games they make aren't good, or the games aren't good because they don't care enough to put in any effort.

[Agent Z]

If the Miles Morales Spider-Man game does well enough, which it probably will, I could honestly see a Gwen game down the pipe. Disney isn't going to foot the bill for a BP game, they don't care about video games. it's honestly surprised me how much Disney doesn't care about games, outside of mobile stuff, Kingdom Hearts, and once in a blue moon, Tron. Maybe it's a chicken and egg thing. They don't care because the games they make aren't good, or the games aren't good because they don't care enough to put in any effort.

Why don't they care about games? Surely, they can't be blind to how much money they make.

[Besouro]

Writing Big 2 heroes, either in comics or for the screen, is a dance. The Creatives have plans and the Company has needs. The company wins EVERY argument, so part of our job is making them see we have the right vision. If we can't, we don't get our way. On BPQ about 80% of what i wanted to do made it on the screen. You would die over what we weren't allowed to try. But that's the deal. 80% is a HUGE win.

The only time this is offset is if the creative has some outside juice that gives them more weight in the discussions. Even then, the company wins every argument. EVERY argument.

Whatever you see on the screen or on the page is the result of a LOT of negotiating and compromise.

EDIT: Also, BPQ had a VERY specific target audience and it was an experiment in the company shifting from pointing the Avengers at kids ONLY to opening the show up to ALL AGES. All-Ages is not "pointed at children." It's "pointed at everyone" and it was something new for the company at the time. 80% under those conditions is a gold medal. We killed people on the show and they stayed dead. Heroes failed, lied, made choices that bit them on the ass later and when they fought, they got hurt. If you don't like that, yes, don't read my stuff because you will never be happy.

Here's is what you can expect from my John Stewart comics- I will putting John and the Last Lanterns through it. I will not be setting them up to be standard-bearers for all the ills the character has suffered over the years. i will not be putting him in a galactic BLM t-shirt. That isn't my job in this space. That said, if you've been worried about John Stewart being in the backfield or a token all this time, you can put that worry down as long as I'm driving. Put it down and bury it deep.

Here's what you can expect from my King-in-Black tie-in. I will do the Black Panther justice.

I will not be doing Coates' BP.
I will not be doing Hudlin's BP.
I will not be doing Priest's or McGregor's or Liss's BP.
I will not be doing Stan and Jack's BP.
I will not be doing Aaron's BP.
I will also not be doing the version of T'Challa we saw in BPQ. Black Panther's Quest took place on Earth-17628. AVENGERS: BPQ

I will be writing my version of 616 BP. My name is Geoffrey Thorne.

Nothing you've seen will prep you for this. Or, maybe, if you've read enough of ALL my stuff, you'll have some idea.

If anybody thinks I took this gig to make T’Challa soft, they need to sign up for summer school because they've been sleeping through class.

This will be a Redjack Joint. Believe that.

And I'm nowhere near done. 2021 is going to be a fireball in comics from me.

Get ready.

Oh man....RJ just transformed into Scorchin' Jack.

That post is hot fire Mr.RJ. Lol!!

Some foundational aspects of BP made by previous writers (especially Priest) can not be exempt.

Please do not try to reinvent the wheel but for all I know you might make greater invention entirely.

I love and applaud your enthusiasm for BP and I look forward to seeing it shine in your BP stories. At least, you would have rescued us from the travesty of TNCs BP work and at most.....hopefully...take BP to the Apex of his potential.

[XPac]

If the Miles Morales Spider-Man game does well enough, which it probably will, I could honestly see a Gwen game down the pipe. Disney isn't going to foot the bill for a BP game, they don't care about video games. it's honestly surprised me how much Disney doesn't care about games, outside of mobile stuff, Kingdom Hearts, and once in a blue moon, Tron. Maybe it's a chicken and egg thing. They don't care because the games they make aren't good, or the games aren't good because they don't care enough to put in any effort.

Spider-Man will always get games, because hes a Sony property on the movie side of things rather than a Disney property. And Sony obviously has incentive to make video games, unlike Disney.

[Besouro]

prolly means they will just double down on spider-man and batman

next up, a Spider-Gwen off shoot lol

Does spidergwen have any unique abilities that make her more unique like Miles has invisibility and venom blast?

[XPac]

Does spidergwen have any unique abilities that make her more unique like Miles has invisibility and venom blast?

She has a symbiote but I think she mostly has regular Spider-Man abilities, apart from her abiity to jump around different realities.

[Overhazard]

Why don't they care about games? Surely, they can't be blind to how much money they make.

I honestly think they kind of just half-ass it. Have you ever heard of spectrobes? Thirteen years ago, disney tried to come up with their own creature collector franchise called spectrobes. They wanted it to be a "pokemon killer", the game sold well enough to get two sequels, but then just fizzled out. Now the creature design in spectrobes is great. Some of the best I've seen outside of Monster Hunter, but it just wasn't enough. One would think that this would inspire disney to do what they always do when they can't make their own stuff, buy some company to do it for them, but they won't even do that. Video Games are just that one entertainment frontier the mouse doesn't jump into that much.

[Besouro]

She has a symbiote but I think she mostly has regular Spider-Man abilities, apart from her abiity to jump around different realities.

Is the symbiote the source of her spider abilities?

Is it non-sentient or not?

Is spidergwen just a goody girl teen version of 616 venom?

[Frontier]

Is the symbiote the source of her spider abilities?

Is it non-sentient or not?

Is spidergwen just a goody girl teen version of 616 venom?

The Symbiote is sentient and basically restored her powers, but other than for changing clothes she doesn't always use it like normal Venom does.