Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Cville]

Having the cure and not sharing doesn't bother me at all.

[MindofShadow]

Two problems with it:

1. Comic fans can't handle no "uppity black men" acting like that. If Reed Richards said it, no one would care

2. He shouldn't have used Cancer. It is too personal for too many people. He should have used the Flu or common cold or something like that. Get the same point across without triggering people

[4sake Baned]

Having the cure and not sharing doesn't bother me at all.

Same here, both of parents died of cancer both in last 5 years yet, some how I’m not mad at a fictional character/nation about it..

[The Cool Thatguy]

Gray morality is pretty tricky to convey. I don't think Hudlin handled that story well.

I don't feel he handled much well in the way of his actions.

Wakanda: "We're better than the CIA and as good as Israel! No way we'd miss the country right next door attacking!"

Guess what?

And the storyline?

"A Sinister Six team that Spider-Man can beat nearly brings down the entire country."

[Ezyo1000]

Maybe it's just my own interpretation, but I do think this thing was morally ambiguous on purpose. I think Hudlin was trying to make the overall point that Wakandans do not care about anyone else but themselves. Before T'Chaka is killed in the flashback he does berate those other world leaders for purposefully refusing to make the breakthroughs themselves and cure diseases when they can sell them medicine, to which one of them is surprised he's a socialist. And T'Chaka didn't want to share any of Wakanda's scientific breakthroughs or resources because the West would have just monetized it all.

It's a touchy subject and I would be pissed too if I found out some nation was hoarding the cure for cancer, but I don't think Hudlin was trying to completely exalt the Wakandans for that either. I think he was trying to say they are dicks, but the rest of the world are dicks too, and that's why the Wakandans are dicks to everyone else.

If memory serves me, there was no mention from T'Chaka about the cure. Just that he was saying Wakanda was willing to share resources and they lesser immediately started talking about financial gain. It was during T'Challas rule that it's mentioned that they have the cure. At that state in the story Wakanda was closed off again, I understand it's a touchy topic, but logistically in real life if we learned of a nation in Africa that had the cure but didn't share it because when they tried to go to the UN and interaction with these other developed countries, they are met with an asassination of their leader and several nation's aiding and protecting the assassin and turning their backs on said nation? I mean that's open aggression grounds for war, you can't then say they are assholes for not sharing whatever discoveries they have. Again at first glance you could say Wakandans look like dicks, but then when you look at the series of events that happened, you could maybe argue that Wakandans are somewhat dicks initially I guess because T'Chaka decided not to do any sharing of resources because the greed, but not for the other part because the world had already gave them the middle finger and showed they have no issues with helping other nations kill Wakandas leaders by providing aid and protection to them.

[4sake Baned]

If Letitia is still just supporting character Shuri, no, you don't recast at all. She's an idiot and potentially a dangerous idiot but it isn't like she is the face of the franchise. She is like... 5th? in pecking order (recasted T'challa, Villain, Danai, Lupita would all be "ahead" of her)

Now, if she si taking the lead of the franchise.... that is a whole different conversation.




Well considering black people are being hit hardest by the virus, they should be rushing for it.

BUT...

They won't be. Military, medical workers, and on down the list will be "first." Black people who live in hard to reach places won't be anywhere near first in line.

The only thing Black people should be rushing to get is global reparations. The Medical Apartheid ,The torture/experimentation by James Marion Sims , The torture/experimentation by Delphine LaLaurie , The torture & experimentation of Henrietta Lacks, the torture and experimentation Tuskegee Syphilis experiment, the Government sanction forced sterilization of black men and women from slavery atleast into the 1980s, The radiation torture and experimentation by Eugene Saenger , Project 4.1, Holmesburg Prison experimentation/torture on Black inmates & more says black folks don’t rush out/be 1st to get any government sanction meds. But if you want to be 1st/front in line for a rona vaccination you go own ahead lol

[4sake Baned]

If memory serves me, there was no mention from T'Chaka about the cure. Just that he was saying Wakanda was willing to share resources and they lesser immediately started talking about financial gain. It was during T'Challas rule that it's mentioned that they have the cure. At that state in the story Wakanda was closed off again, I understand it's a touchy topic, but logistically in real life if we learned of a nation in Africa that had the cure but didn't share it because when they tried to go to the UN and interaction with these other developed countries, they are met with an asassination of their leader and several nation's aiding and protecting the assassin and turning their backs on said nation? I mean that's open aggression grounds for war, you can't then say they are assholes for not sharing whatever discoveries they have. Again at first glance you could say Wakandans look like dicks, but then when you look at the series of events that happened, you could maybe argue that Wakandans are somewhat dicks initially I guess because T'Chaka decided not to do any sharing of resources because the greed, but not for the other part because the world had already gave them the middle finger and showed they have no issues with helping other nations kill Wakandas leaders by providing aid and protection to them.

To put it pure simple most folks were/are butthurt that unlike in real life a black nation/black leaders is not forced to give over there resources or made to give over there resources to white nations/various majority white nations/westernized nations as if we own them gifts for there oppression and attempts of complete genocide..

[MindofShadow]

nvm, this isn't the place to talk non BP related stuff

[Ezyo1000]

Two problems with it:

1. Comic fans can't handle no "uppity black men" acting like that. If Reed Richards said it, no one would care

2. He shouldn't have used Cancer. It is too personal for too many people. He should have used the Flu or common cold or something like that. Get the same point across without triggering people

I'll agree Hudlin probably should of went with something like the flu instead as cancer is triggering. But Wakanda still isn't at fault at that point in the story.

I don't feel he handled much well in the way of his actions.

Wakanda: "We're better than the CIA and as good as Israel! No way we'd miss the country right next door attacking!"

Guess what?

And the storyline?

"A Sinister Six team that Spider-Man can beat nearly brings down the entire country."

I mean, not really, they didn't almost bring down Wakanda, not even close. It also wasn't just 6, it was those 6 plus other mercenarys/ assassins ans they were being backed by the Nigandan army as well and being assaulted by surface to air missles. They actually weren't any closer to defeat then in flags. They mobilized and counter attacked pretty quickly actually gain control of the situation very fast

[Vanguard]

Well looking past the political commentary I think there's a valid discussion to be had about Letitia's comments in terms of BP2. Does Marvel recast her? If they do, do they recast T'Challa as well? .

Isn’t it funny how when celebs are at their peak they normally say or do something controversial that makes almost everyone pause for a moment and rethink how they feel about them? It’s like they get comfortable and think, well I’ve made it now so might as well say how I really feel. It happens a lot.

[Blind Wedjat]

If memory serves me, there was no mention from T'Chaka about the cure. Just that he was saying Wakanda was willing to share resources and they lesser immediately started talking about financial gain. It was during T'Challas rule that it's mentioned that they have the cure. At that state in the story Wakanda was closed off again, I understand it's a touchy topic, but logistically in real life if we learned of a nation in Africa that had the cure but didn't share it because when they tried to go to the UN and interaction with these other developed countries, they are met with an asassination of their leader and several nation's aiding and protecting the assassin and turning their backs on said nation? I mean that's open aggression grounds for war, you can't then say they are assholes for not sharing whatever discoveries they have. Again at first glance you could say Wakandans look like dicks, but then when you look at the series of events that happened, you could maybe argue that Wakandans are somewhat dicks initially I guess because T'Chaka decided not to do any sharing of resources because the greed, but not for the other part because the world had already gave them the middle finger and showed they have no issues with helping other nations kill Wakandas leaders by providing aid and protection to them.

Oh I know that T'Chaka didn't talk about that specific cure, but I think Hudlin's overall point was that the Wakandans believe "those who want help will help themselves," and that they didn't need any of Wakanda's resources because the motivating factor would be profit and eventual misuse. Which is to put out that the rest of the world is profit chasing and as T'Chaka put it, spiritually unadvanced. But I don't think all of that is still meant to 100% the Wakandans as a righteous people. I think Hudlin still wanted to emphasise that they were at least selfish and at worst isolationist and xenophobic. T'Challa on the other hand may be willing to work with foreigners but only as long as they were people he trusted like Tony Stark, Reed Richards (and the rest of the FF) and Steve Rogers.

[chief12d]

Idk, cancer is one of those things that just hits close to home for some people. Frankly when I first read it, I laughed because of how casually they brought up how Wakanda had the cure but refused to share lol. I suspect that it was a subtle boast on Hudlin’s part to show just how much more advanced Wakanda is than the West while also providing a meta commentary on how the Western preoccupation with non-Western natural resources screws them out of more valuable things. It also showed in that moment Wakandans were vindictive and justified in their xenophobia, as it was the West that assassinated their king and refused to help bring T’Chaka’s killer to justice.

Thinking back on it, Hudlin probably should’ve just wrote “the key to travel the stars” or something. Diseases of any kind just hit close to home for some people, but Wakanda refusing to give the US access to the next frontier which can just as easily be turned into weapons despite its potential, is far less controversial. Idk, I don’t think what Hudson did was bad, but it is shitty PR for a good man and Avenger to have the cure to cancer and refuse to share it. Though it may have been retconned in that recent BP annual when Monica died of cancer.

[Blind Wedjat]

Idk, cancer is one of those things that just hits close to home for some people. Frankly when I first read it, I laughed because of how casually they brought up how Wakanda had the cure but refused to share lol. I suspect that it was a subtle boast on Hudlin’s part to show just how much more advanced Wakanda is than the West while also providing a meta commentary on how the Western preoccupation with non-Western natural resources screws them out of more valuable things. It also showed in that moment Wakandans were vindictive and justified in their xenophobia, as it was the West that assassinated their king and refused to help bring T’Chaka’s killer to justice.

Thinking back on it, Hudlin probably should’ve just wrote “the key to travel the stars” or something. Diseases of any kind just hit close to home for some people, but Wakanda refusing to give the US access to the next frontier which can just as easily be turned into weapons despite its potential, is far less controversial. Idk, I don’t think what Hudson did was bad, but it is shitty PR for a good man and Avenger to have the cure to cancer and refuse to share it. Though it may have been retconned in that recent BP annual when Monica died of cancer.

Exactly. We can talk about petty fanboys being offended for their petty reasons but I can imagine this thing being a much bigger scandal if it happened in the late 2010s were Twitter was a much larger socio-cultural force, because there would have been a much larger sect of people who wouldn't have liked this for their rightful personal reasons and experiences too. In fact I don't think any writer would have tried it at all in this different climate.

[chief12d]

Exactly. We can talk about petty fanboys being offended for their petty reasons but I can imagine this thing being a much bigger scandal if it happened in the late 2010s were Twitter was a much larger socio-cultural force, because there would have been a much larger sect of people who wouldn't have liked this for their rightful personal reasons and experiences too. In fact I don't think any writer would have tried it at all in this different climate.

Yea the way I look at it, there are ways to show that Wakanda is hardcore without playing into the more unfortunate aspects of what their xenophobia and isolationism would mean in the real world. While also taking into account he fact T’Challa REJECTS said isolationism and is fundamentally opposed to many of his people’s beliefs about outsiders.

I feel BP writers feel the need to situate Wakanda in the real world to an unnecessary extent. Even Priest played into this when he wrote his story for the annual and had it so T’Challa refuses to share the means to solve climate change. Sure, he kinda justified it by having it so the West would weaponize that tech too, but c’mon, you don’t wanna put that on the character’s head. We don’t compromise Aquaman’s character that way to make him badass or righteous, T’Challa should be the same.

But even that isn’t as bad as the damning moral implications of a hero like T’Challa refusing to share a cancer cure. Regardless of the circumstances. It was an unneeded display of arrogance and it does invite unnecessary controversy. That’s why it never gets referenced or shows up in adaptations, just like the whole Dora wives-in-training thing. It makes Wakanda look worse than it needs to be in order to create the contrast between the people’s morality and T’Challa’s.

[Blind Wedjat]

Yea the way I look at it, there are ways to show that Wakanda is hardcore without playing into the more unfortunate aspects of what their xenophobia and isolationism would mean in the real world. While also taking into account he fact T’Challa REJECTS said isolationism and is fundamentally opposed to many of his people’s beliefs about outsiders.

I feel BP writers feel the need to situate Wakanda in the real world to an unnecessary extent. Even Priest played into this when he wrote his story for the annual and had it so T’Challa refuses to share the means to solve climate change. Sure, he kinda justified it by having it so the West would weaponize that tech too, but c’mon, you don’t wanna put that on the character’s head. We don’t compromise Aquaman’s character that way to make him badass or righteous, T’Challa should be the same.

But even that isn’t as bad as the damning moral implications of a hero like T’Challa refusing to share a cancer cure. Regardless of the circumstances. It was an unneeded display of arrogance and it does invite unnecessary controversy. That’s why it never gets referenced or shows up in adaptations, just like the whole Dora wives-in-training thing. It makes Wakanda look worse than it needs to be in order to create the contrast between the people’s morality and T’Challa’s.

I think T'Challa would actually give some of Wakanda's resources to private individuals instead of world governments at least. Maybe that's a way to actually show that he wants to and does help but it's with people he trusts.