Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Vanguard]

I do miss Priest Zuri as well. He needs to come back with kwabi. Bring his male cast members back in the fold

I went back and read some of Priests old stuff. His explanations and storylines are excellent. I loved reading those context boxes (I guess that’s what you call them) that would explain what weapons he was using and what they did, in a given scene. I also liked how he referred to TChalla as “the client,” it was a nice touch.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I mean, if you haven't even read Coates run then you can't speak on how he doesn't hate the franchise. Just look up Coates interviews. Dude straight up said in a interview that long time fans and hardcore BP fans aren't going to like his run.

As for Hudlin? No Wakandans weren't dicks for not sharing the cure, what people seem to conveniently forget is that the last time Wakanda did any sort of interaction with the outside world, their king and his first born son were killed, and the other world powers not only didn't provide any sort of help or aid, but ignored them and hid and protected said assassin. But Wakandans are dicks for not sharing though?? See how that doesn't add up?? Priest didn't have the Azzari vs Cap fight. That was Hudlin also and initially he had Azzari beat Cap then later on in his flags of our fathers mini, he retconned it to a draw, so that ain't accurate either.

Not sharing the cure of cancer is a very dickish thing to do for any government, especially for its leader and at the start of his run which sets the tone. That tragedy is a justification rather than a good reason. Instead of blaming the real people responsible and beefing up security so it won’t happen again because establishing ties with the world is incredibly important for any nation it comes off like a f** you to people who had nothing to do with that because they lived in countries that weren’t Wakanda.

Priest re-established BP as a force to be reckoned with and Hudlin took that concept and further and added Wakanda to that mix as well. And his tie in forced the rest of the MU to take notice.

Priest didn’t just boost T’Challa, he had numerous people from Wakanda right with him when he took down enemies. Key allies in its government. It was 3 years between Priest’s and Hudlin’s runs on Black Panther, nobody forgot the impact Priest had on the title – in fact, Priest’s run’s influence is felt today from Coate’s celebrating it with interviews to the billion dollar movie.

Coates issues are many. It's not a problem to have T'Challa be vulnerable, Priest and Hudlin had T'Challa be vulnerable. Coates issue is that T'Challa literally has been moping for the past 4 year's. It made sense kinda at the start but then he never uplifted him.

Sure it is, every so often people have complained about T’Challa being weak emotionally during Coate’s run, as though its normal for men to hide their true feelings and put up a wall against the world. Priest didn’t do this since we were distant from T’Chall in his run, so he was able to keep up his badass posturing in every scene. Even when T’Chala was down in Priest’s run he never felt like an underdog.

T'Challa is a side character in his own book, constantly being blamed for everything regardless of it it makes canonical sense or not, he always needed help for everything, he has never beaten the main bad guy without help. Coates was on some serious racial stereotypes (think of every racist stereotype associated with black people and Africa and Coates pretty much threw all of them into the mythos) and a whole lot of other stuff that would take to long to type out. His entire run has been about sidelining T'Challa for his per characters and x men characters that he actually wants to write all the while never bothering to actually show why T'Challa is the GOAT BP.

T'Challa wasn’t the lead in Priest’s run, that was Ross. Other characters also had their own adventures during Priest’s run like Casper Cole, Divine Queen Justice and Nakia. A continuing theme in Priest’s run was how T’Challa was too distant with people because of paranoia and caused trouble for his friends simply because he was in their life. Ross eventually thought T’Challa hated him over this and it only got resolved in the last arc when the two got into an argument where T’Challa finally spoke directly to Ross about how he felt and why he did things, when he usually just expected to act specifically or be manipulated indirectly in grand schemes which Ross was just expected to do what he said at any given time with no warning in life and death situations, despite T’Challa knowing he’s a defenseless paper pusher who works for the American government. Ross was well within his rights to cut off all ties to T’Challa for how his life was routinely ruined and put in danger. That may be part of his job, but T’Challa wanted Ross to be his friend not just a random bureaucrat.

Priest’s run did have African stereo types in his run.

This was the first page of Priest’s run, setting the tone:



People forget that Priest’s run was just as much a comedy then a political thriller. The run constantly took shots at making Black Panther the punch line of jokes exploring how absurd normal people find his life, from Ross to Queen Divine Justice. The latter showing the down sides of Wakanda life, which was very conservative in traditionalism and ruined her dating life simply because of who she was and she absolutely hated that which is why she rebelled and fled. Wakanda’s traditions were constantly scrutinised and criticised for being obsolete in the modern age, sometimes by T'Challa himself.

Priest didn’t even like Black Panther when he got the assignment. The reason it didn’t show is because of how amazing he is as a writer.

https://www.vulture.com/2018/01/chri...sappeared.html

“I was a little horrified when the words ‘Black’ and ‘Panther’ came out of Joe’s mouth,” he would later write. “I mean, Black Panther? Who reads Black Panther? Black Panther?!” But they were adamant, and Priest acquiesced — with “one basic stipulation: Black Panther could not be ‘a black book.’ ” Even though he had become the best interpreter of race in the game, Priest saw something troubling happening to his career. “I stopped being a writer, or being thought of as a writer,” he tells me, “and started being thought of as a black writer.”
So, in order to make this new endeavor interesting for himself, he managed to persuade Quesada and Palmiotti to let him give a book called Black Panther a white protagonist. While watching the Friends episode “The One With the Blackout,” Priest was taken by a scene in which Matthew Perry’s Chandler Bing finds himself trapped in an ATM vestibule with a supermodel. “Respected and successful, Bing nevertheless was the horrified fish out of water,” Priest later wrote. He felt he needed a Chandler, so he created Everett K. Ross, a hopelessly overwhelmed white man who works for the U.S. government and serves as a diplomatic escort for the Panther when the monarch embarks on a trip to Brooklyn. It was a genius move that allowed a book about a stoic superhero to be hilarious.

What’s wrong with T’Challa needing help? He did this in Priest’s run, regularly drafting people against their will, his friends like Ross and Monica and agents like Okoye and Nakia to help him win his fights.

He made Wakanda a columbus analogue and while yes the intergalactic Wakanda isn't 616 Wakanda, Coates had T'Challa stupidly (and I mean INCREDIBLY STUPID) ignore very obvious and blatant slave isht going on, and when it was brought up to him that there was an issue Coates excuse he had T'Challa use... Plot induced stupidity that doesn't even logically make sense given the situation (basically he tells the person he doesn't believe him because the said person from where T'Challa comes from is a Villain, however, he apparently trust's the leader of the empire despite him being his greatest enemy in his publishing history).

Okay.

Priest and Hudlin never made T'Challa an unbeatable badass all the time, he lost plenty, that's just something unfans and haters who never actually read the book would state.

That was a description of T’Challa presenting himself to others, like in Priest’s run, not literally. In Priest’s run he rarely let his guard down around his friends and allies. It was a theme to not show weakness, don’t look weak and vulnerable, look strong, tough and ready for business. I can’t recall a single instance of him crying from the absolute horrible situations he’s in, which would break most people, in Priest’s run.

[Anthony Shaw]

It is still canon.

Thanks for verifying.

[chief12d]

Not sharing the cure of cancer is a very dickish thing to do for any government, especially for its leader and at the start of his run which sets the tone. That tragedy is a justification rather than a good reason. Instead of blaming the real people responsible and beefing up security so it won’t happen again because establishing ties with the world is incredibly important for any nation it comes off like a f** you to people who had nothing to do with that because they lived in countries that weren’t Wakanda.



Priest didn’t just boost T’Challa, he had numerous people from Wakanda right with him when he took down enemies. Key allies in its government. It was 3 years between Priest’s and Hudlin’s runs on Black Panther, nobody forgot the impact Priest had on the title – in fact, Priest’s run’s influence is felt today from Coate’s celebrating it with interviews to the billion dollar movie.



Sure it is, every so often people have complained about T’Challa being weak emotionally during Coate’s run, as though its normal for men to hide their true feelings and put up a wall against the world. Priest didn’t do this since we were distant from T’Chall in his run, so he was able to keep up his badass posturing in every scene. Even when T’Chala was down in Priest’s run he never felt like an underdog.



T'Challa wasn’t the lead in Priest’s run, that was Ross. Other characters also had their own adventures during Priest’s run like Casper Cole, Divine Queen Justice and Nakia. A continuing theme in Priest’s run was how T’Challa was too distant with people because of paranoia and caused trouble for his friends simply because he was in their life. Ross eventually thought T’Challa hated him over this and it only got resolved in the last arc when the two got into an argument where T’Challa finally spoke directly to Ross about how he felt and why he did things, when he usually just expected to act specifically or be manipulated indirectly in grand schemes which Ross was just expected to do what he said at any given time with no warning in life and death situations, despite T’Challa knowing he’s a defenseless paper pusher who works for the American government. Ross was well within his rights to cut off all ties to T’Challa for how his life was routinely ruined and put in danger. That may be part of his job, but T’Challa wanted Ross to be his friend not just a random bureaucrat.

Priest’s run did have African stereo types in his run.

This was the first page of Priest’s run, setting the tone:



People forget that Priest’s run was just as much a comedy then a political thriller. The run constantly took shots at making Black Panther the punch line of jokes exploring how absurd normal people find his life, from Ross to Queen Divine Justice. The latter showing the down sides of Wakanda life, which was very conservative in traditionalism and ruined her dating life simply because of who she was and she absolutely hated that which is why she rebelled and fled. Wakanda’s traditions were constantly scrutinised and criticised for being obsolete in the modern age, sometimes by T'Challa himself.

Priest didn’t even like Black Panther when he got the assignment. The reason it didn’t show is because of how amazing he is as a writer.

https://www.vulture.com/2018/01/chri...sappeared.html



What’s wrong with T’Challa needing help? He did this in Priest’s run, regularly drafting people against their will, his friends like Ross and Monica and agents like Okoye and Nakia to help him win his fights.



Okay.



That was a description of T’Challa presenting himself to others, like in Priest’s run, not literally. In Priest’s run he rarely let his guard down around his friends and allies. It was a theme to not show weakness, don’t look weak and vulnerable, look strong, tough and ready for business. I can’t recall a single instance of him crying from the absolute horrible situations he’s in, which would break most people, in Priest’s run.

Priest had T’Challa show moments of vulnerability around people he trusted like Storm and Monica and even Ross, at different points. T’Challa’s poker face is an essential part of his character, hence why the characterization under Coates gets criticized, because it is constant bewilderment and emotional insecurity on T’Challa’s part. And it’s not even good exploration of T’Challa at his lowest, it’s just tragedy porn and a convenient way to sideline him so characters like the Dora and Storm can do the heavy lifting. T’Challa hasn’t moved past any of his hang ups since the beginning of this run. He still doesn’t want to be king, he still hasn’t reconciled with Wakanda’s past, and the promises of his reforms haven’t been explored in any significant depth. It’s incompetence and vulnerability for fake deep ness, instead of an actual deconstruction where he can climb up better than before.

T’Challa putting up walls is literally his thing, he’s not supposed to be in his feelings in front of random Wakandans or always having his back up against the wall. Being king does not lend itself to being a well-adjusted individual, much in the same way dressing up as a flying rodent doesn’t. T’Challa is not a fundamentally broken man but being visibly sad and insecure across 40+ issues is just not how the character is supposed to be written. Especially when it leads to damning moments like ignoring intergalactic slavery and consulting with dictators who specialize in dehumanizing people fighting for their rights.

Priest incorporated African stereotypes with the intention of subverting them. In his own words, he gave Ross the voice of a stereotypical white dude with stereotypical views of what he expected an African country to be like, yet he was constantly shocked at the civilization Wakandans had built. Similarly, the hilarity of T’Challa’s world can easily be juxtaposed with the legitimate threats he was taking on in those moments.

There were a few jokes in nearly every arc but most of them had global implications, from nuclear war with Atlantis to the replacement of heads of state. The comedic aspects always served to highlight the sheer absurdity and grandiosity of the villains and T’Challa’s ability to defeat them. This is in contrast to Coates, who actively tries to make Wakanda a Western analogue by having them slaughter a bunch of “indigenous” demons in Wakanda. By having a spin-off book where it’s implied T’Challa only got the throne because he was a man, etc. He’s not scrutinizing Wakandan traditions, he barely added anything new in that regard. All we learned in terms of their cultural bias was that they have a thing against orphans, which I thought was well reasoned and made sense.

[Ezyo1000]

Not sharing the cure of cancer is a very dickish thing to do for any government, especially for its leader and at the start of his run which sets the tone. That tragedy is a justification rather than a good reason. Instead of blaming the real people responsible and beefing up security so it won’t happen again because establishing ties with the world is incredibly important for any nation it comes off like a f** you to people who had nothing to do with that because they lived in countries that weren’t Wakanda.



Priest didn’t just boost T’Challa, he had numerous people from Wakanda right with him when he took down enemies. Key allies in its government. It was 3 years between Priest’s and Hudlin’s runs on Black Panther, nobody forgot the impact Priest had on the title – in fact, Priest’s run’s influence is felt today from Coate’s celebrating it with interviews to the billion dollar movie.



Sure it is, every so often people have complained about T’Challa being weak emotionally during Coate’s run, as though its normal for men to hide their true feelings and put up a wall against the world. Priest didn’t do this since we were distant from T’Chall in his run, so he was able to keep up his badass posturing in every scene. Even when T’Chala was down in Priest’s run he never felt like an underdog.



T'Challa wasn’t the lead in Priest’s run, that was Ross. Other characters also had their own adventures during Priest’s run like Casper Cole, Divine Queen Justice and Nakia. A continuing theme in Priest’s run was how T’Challa was too distant with people because of paranoia and caused trouble for his friends simply because he was in their life. Ross eventually thought T’Challa hated him over this and it only got resolved in the last arc when the two got into an argument where T’Challa finally spoke directly to Ross about how he felt and why he did things, when he usually just expected to act specifically or be manipulated indirectly in grand schemes which Ross was just expected to do what he said at any given time with no warning in life and death situations, despite T’Challa knowing he’s a defenseless paper pusher who works for the American government. Ross was well within his rights to cut off all ties to T’Challa for how his life was routinely ruined and put in danger. That may be part of his job, but T’Challa wanted Ross to be his friend not just a random bureaucrat.

Priest’s run did have African stereo types in his run.

This was the first page of Priest’s run, setting the tone:



People forget that Priest’s run was just as much a comedy then a political thriller. The run constantly took shots at making Black Panther the punch line of jokes exploring how absurd normal people find his life, from Ross to Queen Divine Justice. The latter showing the down sides of Wakanda life, which was very conservative in traditionalism and ruined her dating life simply because of who she was and she absolutely hated that which is why she rebelled and fled. Wakanda’s traditions were constantly scrutinised and criticised for being obsolete in the modern age, sometimes by T'Challa himself.

Priest didn’t even like Black Panther when he got the assignment. The reason it didn’t show is because of how amazing he is as a writer.

https://www.vulture.com/2018/01/chri...sappeared.html



What’s wrong with T’Challa needing help? He did this in Priest’s run, regularly drafting people against their will, his friends like Ross and Monica and agents like Okoye and Nakia to help him win his fights.



Okay.



That was a description of T’Challa presenting himself to others, like in Priest’s run, not literally. In Priest’s run he rarely let his guard down around his friends and allies. It was a theme to not show weakness, don’t look weak and vulnerable, look strong, tough and ready for business. I can’t recall a single instance of him crying from the absolute horrible situations he’s in, which would break most people, in Priest’s run.

The Cancer thing isn't dickish. It really isn't. Your explanation doesn't make sense. If a world leader NOW went to a different nation with their family and said leader and kne of their children were assassinated and the rest of the world turned a blind eye? There's no way in hell they will just "Oh well that happened, better security next time" and they couldn't blame the real people responsible as they were trying to do the responsible party and none of the nation's were cooperating or providing assistance. This is way after the fact when T'Challa is now an adult and Wakanda went back to being isolated. They just kept to themselves again, it's a nation who just tried to share it's resources with the world getting the middle finger Ontop of the death of their leader. When T'Challa took down enemies in Priest run, he mostly did it himself. Sure for mephisto he had a team of Wakandan scientists disrupting his power, but T'Challa himself did heavy lifting. For a good example in the current arc of Coates run, 20+ issues in. T'Challa and the main villain have not fought each other or even had any interaction and the villain has been "defeated" twice. Neither were by T'Challa, but side characters. That's the difference between Priest/Hudlin and Coates. And good for him he commented on priest briefly, still doesn't mean Isht when you read his other interviews and have read his BP run to see what he really thinks of T'Challa and his world.

And again, you keep trying to comment on a run you have never read and using the tired argument that men can never show emotion. There were multiple times in Priest run where T'Challa was vulnerable. None of us here have an issue with T'Challa showing emotion.. when it's done in a way that makes sense.

Hell Coates initially it made sense with the tone he was setting that T'Challa would be off. Problem is that here we are 4 year's later and even though the issues were "resolved" we still have T'Challa moping and acting out of character and whining about not wanting to be King (despite there being plenty of continuity that states otherwise)

Ross being the main character was an issue many have with priests run. Sure at the start it made sense to use him as a way to establish how fantastical and awesome BP was, but as the run went on it started to become unnecessary. Kasper I'll give that to you he did take over but that was by editorial decision and he was actually the main character at that point in the series as it was basically a new series all together. QDJ and Nakia? They were never the main characters ever. Having development of the supporting cast is not the same as being the main character so no they weren't even close.

As for Priest and African stereotypes you forget one thing. Ross was used as basically the audience and how people viewed Africa and he subverted those stereotypes. Coates is literally taking those racial stereotypes people have of Africa and injected them into Wakanda. He literally put giant ass Rape treehouses in his run. That among other things is the difference. While priest was shattering these preconceived notions Coates was actively injecting then into Wakanda.

Priest interviews? Yeah initially he didn't like T'Challa Because at the time Priest had done a lot of popular characters like Spiderman and such and BP was underdeveloped and unknown, he also stated that once he started researching the character he fell in love with his world and what he represented and it shows in his work. Can't say the same for Coates.

T'Challa having help is fine, supporting cast members need to be doing stuff too and T'Challa can't be everywhere at once. However the title of the book is Black Panther. Not Black Panther and friends. The title character does the heavily lifting and gets the lions share of feats. Coates is not doing that. He is sidelining T'Challa and having supporting characters (and out of franchise characters) doing the majority of the work and getting feats. Wheb you have the main villain of your story saying two x characters (Storm and manifold) are the biggest threats in a book titled Black Panther.. you got a franking problem

[Blind Wedjat]

I agree with both takes. There are some things I don't like about Priest's run, and there are some things I do like and quite a few things that were necessary for the character at the time and have gone on to define Wakandan lore.

I just think if there is a difference between Priest and Coates is that the former has a lot more experience and skill in writing mainstream comics and ended up liking his interpretation of T'Challa in a way that he thought would make him the kind of character he'd want to read as a comic book fan. I don't think Coates is at that point with T'Challa at all and I don't think he'd ever get there.

[Chesterfield]

Rich countries 'hoarding' vaccine, with Canada buying 'enough to vaccinate every person five times'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coron...?ocid=msedgntp

...and people here want to call Wakanda dicks. Spare me.

[4sake Baned]

Well the key to her release is the destruction of the djahla which is what she wants, in order to defeat her, T'Challa must learn first how Bashenga defeated her. However, T'Challa never actually communed with the previous BPs m that was a trick by mother hence why in S2 the "oldest BP" was some rando instead of Bashenga. Mother absolutely hates Bashenga, so much that she can't even pretend to falsify him. As for previous BPs in recent years have been provided by Shuris memory.

Anyways T'Challa has to commune with Bashenga, he is tested to see if he is worthy, and Given the knowledge of how Bashenga sealed her with an ancient ritual using his spear (spear of Bashenga) T'Challa crafts a weapon to seal her away again and has to defeat her with it but this will be arduous tasks and the reason he was tested is because it requires a ton of physical, emotional and psychological testing which breaks away this doubting himself BS to show why he is the GOAT BP. This is a rough overview but essentially it goes into the mystical side of WK, but also mixing advanced tech to actually defeat her because obviously the seal can be broken and he doesn't want future WK to have to suffer her again

In a positive way, I had a good Lol at the underlined. That's like something out of a Venture Brother episode. Something the Monarch would say about Dr. Venture.

Since we're talking about Bashenga I've been thinking that if a BP serves 10+ consistent years meaning he defended 10+ challenge days, Bast would grant him or her immortality. Not unkillable, but would effectively stop aging.

My other thinking was he has the secret to some tailed beast form. Because Aaron has yet to explain how 1 million B.C. panther(who I think he should just say is Bast walking around in human form, because he didn't have a problem with Thor doing it)was able to contend with those ancient threats.

Great ideas, how can one not love venture brothers

[4sake Baned]

Exile should have been what the MA got. They could have spun that off into light or full novels so they'd have a place for ther fan base to look for them. A version of 'Coming to America' would be a good start.

Naw they deserved death (preferably slowly and painfully) exile Would be acceptable long as it was humiliating in general to /After a humiliating defeat.

Rich countries 'hoarding' vaccine, with Canada buying 'enough to vaccinate every person five times'

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coron...?ocid=msedgntp

...and people here want to call Wakanda dicks. Spare me.

Lol they not trying to deal in fact

[Cville]

Naw they deserved death (preferably slowly and painfully) exile Would be acceptable long as it was humiliating in general to /After a humiliating defeat.

M'Bakus' return was going to be there defeat. He comes back after a spiritual journey to reclaim his lands. Defeats them easily. Tchalla says they can't return to the rest of Wakanda because their both wanted for the jail break Ayo pulled. So they have to go to NY with nothing but their personal belongings. Realizing that trying tom make it in America without a royal expense account can be difficult.

[4sake Baned]

M'Bakus' return was going to be there defeat. He comes back after a spiritual journey to reclaim his lands. Defeats them easily. Tchalla says they can't return to the rest of Wakanda because their both wanted for the jail break Ayo pulled. So they have to go to NY with nothing but their personal belongings. Realizing that trying tom make it in America without a royal expense account can be difficult.

I’d prefer to see M’Baku & QDJ snap there necks (ala Shuri with the Desturi ) but I’d accept this aslong is humiliating/painful ( WWE enhance talent jobber levels of humiliating beat down at a minimum )

[4sake Baned]

Priest had T’Challa show moments of vulnerability around people he trusted like Storm and Monica and even Ross, at different points. T’Challa’s poker face is an essential part of his character, hence why the characterization under Coates gets criticized, because it is constant bewilderment and emotional insecurity on T’Challa’s part. And it’s not even good exploration of T’Challa at his lowest, it’s just tragedy porn and a convenient way to sideline him so characters like the Dora and Storm can do the heavy lifting. T’Challa hasn’t moved past any of his hang ups since the beginning of this run. He still doesn’t want to be king, he still hasn’t reconciled with Wakanda’s past, and the promises of his reforms haven’t been explored in any significant depth. It’s incompetence and vulnerability for fake deep ness, instead of an actual deconstruction where he can climb up better than before.

T’Challa putting up walls is literally his thing, he’s not supposed to be in his feelings in front of random Wakandans or always having his back up against the wall. Being king does not lend itself to being a well-adjusted individual, much in the same way dressing up as a flying rodent doesn’t. T’Challa is not a fundamentally broken man but being visibly sad and insecure across 40+ issues is just not how the character is supposed to be written. Especially when it leads to damning moments like ignoring intergalactic slavery and consulting with dictators who specialize in dehumanizing people fighting for their rights.

Priest incorporated African stereotypes with the intention of subverting them. In his own words, he gave Ross the voice of a stereotypical white dude with stereotypical views of what he expected an African country to be like, yet he was constantly shocked at the civilization Wakandans had built. Similarly, the hilarity of T’Challa’s world can easily be juxtaposed with the legitimate threats he was taking on in those moments.

There were a few jokes in nearly every arc but most of them had global implications, from nuclear war with Atlantis to the replacement of heads of state. The comedic aspects always served to highlight the sheer absurdity and grandiosity of the villains and T’Challa’s ability to defeat them. This is in contrast to Coates, who actively tries to make Wakanda a Western analogue by having them slaughter a bunch of “indigenous” demons in Wakanda. By having a spin-off book where it’s implied T’Challa only got the throne because he was a man, etc. He’s not scrutinizing Wakandan traditions, he barely added anything new in that regard. All we learned in terms of their cultural bias was that they have a thing against orphans, which I thought was well reasoned and made sense.

What’s this about orphans this I don’t remember

[Ezyo1000]

I agree with both takes. There are some things I don't like about Priest's run, and there are some things I do like and quite a few things that were necessary for the character at the time and have gone on to define Wakandan lore.

I just think if there is a difference between Priest and Coates is that the former has a lot more experience and skill in writing mainstream comics and ended up liking his interpretation of T'Challa in a way that he thought would make him the kind of character he'd want to read as a comic book fan. I don't think Coates is at that point with T'Challa at all and I don't think he'd ever get there.

Of course no run is perfect, there will always be something about it that could of been done better or missed the mark. Your also right that it was a different time as well.

I don't think Coates even WANTS to get there. He is a hardcore pessimist and thrives off that stuff. I mean really, what kid would want to read and be inspired by Coates BP? What kid wants to read that type of story at all? Kids don't want to read about the title hero droning on in a monologue. They want to escape. They want hope. Best example I see it was way back in McGregors run when she is thinking about her great relative and in real life he was accosted by racists and was filled with tragedy, but Monica fantasizes what if T'Challa was there and how he would of saved the day and beat back the would be attackers. That's what is needed. Hope, a light in the darkness, and someone showing a better way and not trying to reinforce that ain't isht

[Cville]

I’d prefer to see M’Baku & QDJ snap there necks (ala Shuri with the Desturi ) but I’d accept this aslong is humiliating/painful ( WWE enhance talent jobber levels of humiliating beat down at a minimum )

So far I have them both fighting him at the same time in their flight armor, while all he is using is the club from the movie. And they get beaten pretty easily, but he draws it out for fun. They get a tiny efficiency apt. in Queens and both have to find jobs.

[4sake Baned]

So far I have them both fighting him at the same time in their flight armor, while all he is using is the club from the movie. And they get beaten pretty easily, but he draws it out for fun. They get a tiny efficiency apt. in Queens and both have to find jobs.

Not to bad my version is worse for them lol, I don’t just don’t want those two to take a beating & exile all those other nameless / names I don’t remember In there Army gotten go aswell. In mind are both (M’Baku & QDJ ) empowered by Ghekre they run there there little army with easy.. QDJ finishes off the army & M’Baku them beats lead MA do death with one with his hands & other with the club..