Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[The Cool Thatguy]

Killmonger has never really been a social commentary character. He had some interesting views about the nature of the world, but the black radical terrorist take on his character is an instance of Coogler using his creative license to make the villain reflect the themes of the film. He could do that with Kang if he wanted and if Disney made that offer.

Killmonger had a grounded and relatable background that helped make him sympathetic.

You can't do the same to Kang unless you change literally everything about him.

[Blind Wedjat]

Killmonger has never really been a social commentary character. He had some interesting views about the nature of the world, but the black radical terrorist take on his character is an instance of Coogler using his creative license to make the villain reflect the themes of the film. He could do that with Kang if he wanted and if Disney made that offer.

That's not entirely true. In Hudlin's run Killmonger is written as the kind of guy that takes advantage of the poor and uneducated of the Nigandan populace, masking his intentions as if he's a freedom fighter trying to help in spite of his own agenda. He accuses T'Challa and Wakanda of refusing to help their neighbours because they think they're better than them. Then as the two men are fighting the US government are observing and Ross says no matter the outcome the US will swoop in, impose trade deals on Niganda and Wakanda and then eventually topple Wakanda's government.

It's actually very similar to how Coogler wrote him. Won't be surprised if some inspiration came from that.

[The Cool Thatguy]

And Tony doesn’t exactly have cosmic-level rogues yet he was the central character of the MCU saga featuring Thanos. The idea that the primary character in the MCU needs to directly be related to the main antagonist simply isn’t true. It’s what the creators want and bending that to fit into a profitable storyline. At the very least Carol showed enough money-making potential out the gate with the second highest box office for an MCU solo film. Plus we know Marvel is gonna do their damndest to support a white female lead in opposition to Wonder Woman. They’re not exactly under any stress to push out something like BP with T’Challa when the closest competition is Cyborg lol.

You'll note that Tony never fought Thanos in his own movies, only encountering him in the confines of the Avengers, an ensemble movie. Just sayin'

[chief12d]

Killmonger had a grounded and relatable background that helped make him sympathetic.

You can't do the same to Kang unless you change literally everything about him.

You can do whatever you want with Kang because he’s a fictional character and theme/story trump source material every time. No one outside comic nerds care who Kang is. If Coogler injected relatability and social commentary into his character he can do and it’s work as well as Killmonger did if he tried hard enough.

[XPac]

Dr. Strange is getting pushed because it's pretty easy to spin Avenger level bad guys out of his franchise for those sweet, sweet team up movies we call Avengers. That's not possible with a series as grounded, relatively speaking, as Panther

Honestly I think a BIG part of the reason Strange is getting pushed is purely for storytelling reasons.

If they're going to push the notion of a multiverse (which is an easy way to incorporate the previous Fox and even the Sony franchises), Dr. Strange is a potential vehicle to do that.

By this point Disney knows the MCU is going to make money no matter what they do... now it's simply a matter of telling as good a story as possible to achieve that.

[The Cool Thatguy]

You can do whatever you want with Kang because he’s a fictional character and theme/story trump source material every time. No one outside comic nerds care who Kang is. If Coogler injected relatability and social commentary into his character he can do and it’s work as well as Killmonger did if he tried hard enough.

I'm pretty sure the complain was 'A powerful villain is being spun out of Ant-Man', so changing the character would really negate that.

[PhoenixReborn85]

Sorry to deviate, but when looking at Feige announcing the decision on the stream he gave me "This is a corporate decision to save face temporarily and it's not going to work" face. I've seen that look before at my jobs.

[chief12d]

You'll note that Tony never fought Thanos in his own movies, only encountering him in the confines of the Avengers, an ensemble movie. Just sayin'

And who’s to say Kang can’t be one of the primary villains of BP2 and that he proves too powerful for T’Challa to defeat in a single film, setting him up to be a bigger villain in the MCU? Then they meet up again in an Avengers film? The build up between Tony and Thanos could easily be contrasted with T’Challa failing to defeat Kang on his own then with the help of the Avengers beating him back. Stories can go anyway they want.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Honestly I think a BIG part of the reason Strange is getting pushed is purely for storytelling reasons.

If they're going to push the notion of a multiverse (which is an easy way to incorporate the previous Fox and even the Sony franchises), Dr. Strange is a potential vehicle to do that.

By this point Disney knows the MCU is going to make money no matter what they do... now it's simply a matter of telling as good a story as possible to achieve that.

Yeah, that too. The rumor is that its gonna tie into Scarlet Witch's series, gonna introduce Ms. America plus who knows what else?

[Ekie]

I'm pretty sure the complain was 'A powerful villain is being spun out of Ant-Man', so changing the character would really negate that.

And what point are you trying to make? That powerful villains can't come out of Tchallas universe? That they have to be relatable and provide social commentary?

[The Cool Thatguy]

And who’s to say Kang can’t be one of the primary villains of BP2 and that he proves too powerful for T’Challa to defeat in a single film, setting him up to be a bigger villain in the MCU? Then they meet up again in an Avengers film? The build up between Tony and Thanos could easily be contrasted with T’Challa failing to defeat Kang on his own then with the help of the Avengers beating him back. Stories can go anyway they want.

Well, then we'd just have complaints about Panther being unable to finish the job in his second movie

Let Ant-Man take that blow.

Again, if you want socio-political relevance, fantasy villains are not the way to go, IMO.

[The Cool Thatguy]

And what point are you trying to make? That powerful villains can't come out of Tchallas universe? That they have to be relatable and provide social commentary?

Thus far, they've only come out of Thor or Avengers franchises, so yeah.

The first movie's quality was in part due to its social commentary. You lose that when the villains are cackling Bond villains. Cap ditched those after his first movie, and the quality was better for it. Panther hasn't had one yet, and doesn't need one.

That's not to say that T'Challa shouldn't be part of the Avengers, kicking ass. But his solo movies should be different

[dkrook]

Yeah, that makes no sense to me either. How is not recasting BP respecting Boseman. T'Challa the character is an inspiration to a lot of people so now they want to take that away as a show of respect? That actually a slap in the face.

Yes! This is one of my deepest thoughts on the notion of paying homage to a legacy. Prominent black male hero captured the eyes of the world literally and the strategy is to remove his presence..?? F-ing how. Do any kind of send up tribute to Chadwick all you want. If they valued the impact then lean into it. Make T'Challa's character central to MCU for the next 10 years like they are doing for Strange, Carol, and a host of female heroes on the docket.

Who replaces the cultural influence of T'Challa? Rhodes? Sam? Tell me that they are going to build Blue Marvel, maybe I can kind of get it.

[Mike_Murdock]

Naw

The same people who have always championed "Wakanda is more than T'challa" know damn well the mythos can't survive without that Black Panther name.

FWIW, I think they should call it "World of Wakanda." I mean, I wanted a movie about T'Challa so I'm not the best person to ask, but I'd much rather it be a "World of Wakanda" movie than a "T'Challa dies and Shuri is Black Panther" movie.

[Agent Z]

1. Killmonger will be back because his boy is directing the movie so didn't really accomplish much in the grand scheme. Just got tossed off a waterfall and turn into memes. And now people are championing a reformed killmonger to come back as the Black Panther.

You have no evidence Killmonger will be back. Until they announce Jordan's return in the sequel, this is just speculation on your part. People championing a reformed Killmonger is not a mark against T'Challa. It just shows he was a villain people connected to. That's all it means.

2. Turn Zemo into the US authorities only for him to be released later on and causing more damage in the future. Great accomplishment.

That's the US authorities fault for not holding him then.

3. Tchalla Has always been what kind of top scientists and leader in their advancements. At what point has Shuri been that?

T'Challa designed his own Panther suit. Shuri just gave him a few upgrades.

4. The point wasnt the track record. The point is that hes atleast AROUND to defend his actions.

His actions need no defense. Nothing bad that happened to Wakanda was his fault.