Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[MindofShadow]

Kevin Fiege is looking at all of that and why wouldn't you have someone new in that suit? History says it works. Although it has been tested with Miles.

History in cinema has not put that to the test yet. It has always been "tell the story, wait awhile, recast"

They are literally asking BP to be groundbreaking again... will you accept a legacy hero?

They've never done it in cinema with batman, superman, spider-man, iron man... nothing.

They don't even trust the concept enough in cinema to put Ironheart on the big screen. Or Captain Falcon. Thor 4 isn't replacing Thor... it is just adding another.

Comics =/= normal people. MCU hasn't even found out if people are "done" with the MCU since End Game was the end on that chapter. covid messed that up.

The best legacy we have on the big screen was spider-verse.... and they still kept Peter Parker.

This legacy thing is an experiment in cinema (just like the cinematic universe is an experiment)

[Toonstrack]

Do you honestly believe, that Disney would be dumb enough to kill T'Challa (on or off screen) for a 3rd time? serious question. Do you think people would just be cool with that and move on?

I mean they don't have many options. Its clear in their eyes, Chad was TChalla. So without Chad, there isn't TChalla. And I somewhat agree with that.

Given those things,, the way I see it their options are:

Tchalla dies either offscreen or on. Most likely off.

Tchalla is critically wounded and unable to act as the panther, will exist but not be seen or heard from.

Tchalla is mentioned to be elsewhere off screen for the rest of this franchises existence(which is a terrible idea IMO)

They pull a Leia/Tarkin with the Bosemans blessing and give the character a send off in a brief scene with Chad being CG'd. Send him into space or another dimension or something with the notion that he isnt coming back any time soon.

None of those options are great, but I'd say the first and last are the easiest. The first one leaves then with no other loose ends to fill, but like you said could come off as insensitive. I dont think dying multiple times matters much, Winter Soldier has died about just as many times.

The latter clears things up without reliving a death and there are plenty of avenues they can take straight from the comics to explain this but it would have the risk of being a disservice to the character. But again, not many options.

A recast is off the table for now, thought they could go the multiverse route they'd have to explain why TChalla 2 would not be ruling his own home anyway.

[Toonstrack]

History in cinema has not put that to the test yet. It has always been "tell the story, wait awhile, recast"

They are literally asking BP to be groundbreaking again... will you accept a legacy hero?

They've never done it in cinema with batman, superman, spider-man, iron man... nothing.

They don't even trust the concept enough in cinema to put Ironheart on the big screen. Or Captain Falcon. Thor 4 isn't replacing Thor... it is just adding another.

Comics =/= normal people. MCU hasn't even found out if people are "done" with the MCU since End Game was the end on that chapter. covid messed that up.

The best legacy we have on the big screen was spider-verse.... and they still kept Peter Parker.

This legacy thing is an experiment in cinema (just like the cinematic universe is an experiment)

I mean... Falcon is gonna have more on screen time as the original Cao by the time this series is done. If anything jes getting more of an opportunity to be fleshed out than most characters in this franchise. Hes basically getting a 6 hour long movie. Same with Ironheart.

[Blind Wedjat]

CGI Chadwick is already off the table. They've said as such.

Killing off T'Challa is going to be a lot more controversial than this announcement. Many have already assumed this is the decision they'll make, and I've already seen way too much backlash against their decision on YouTube, Twitter and Reddit. It's still controversial with some people agreeing with it but it's obviously not as unanimous as Marvel probably hoped for. It depends on if it becomes an actual movement like #ReleaseTheSnyderCut now, but a lot of people aren't happy and have already declared they won't be seeing the film.

[Blind Wedjat]

And look, you can go on and on and act like it's just a mantle or whatever, but it's T'Challa fans and people have known for decades. It's T'Challa that people have been waiting to see in film. It's T'Challa that's been selling the merchandise. It's T'Challa that got people all excited with Civil War. It's T'Challa's face that was at the forefront of his 1.3 billion dollar grossing solo. It's T'Challa that gave people hope in Endgame.

Chadwick Boseman contributed a lot too that. One could argue he gave too much, more than he should have. And I know Feige is coming from a good place. But at best they may have made a mistake announcing this so soon and at worst, made a mistake that could cost them in the long run.

[XPac]

This whole" there is still a black panther! It is just a mantle!" thing has got to be the worst argument ive seen in this thread in a long long time.

My favorite character isn't a damn costume lol.

It is OBVIOUS when someone says "i like black panther" they aren't praising the empty costume. Bast have mercy, this is dumb.

While that's true, it doesn't mean you can't like both.

I'm sure plenty of people love Steve Rogers as Cap, but that doesn't mean in theory people can't like Sam as Cap too. You don't need to be fan of JUST one. The thing is, it's starting to look like MOST of the marvel characters have built in legacy characters to replace them. I'm pretty sure we'll be getting a new Thor, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Hulk pretty soon too. Wouldn't be shocked if we even got a new Iron Man.

[MindofShadow]

I mean... Falcon is gonna have more on screen time as the original Cao by the time this series is done. If anything jes getting more of an opportunity to be fleshed out than most characters in this franchise. Hes basically getting a 6 hour long movie. Same with Ironheart.

I said cinema... as in box off money. I'm not talking about character development.

Streaming TV is a different audience.

[XPac]

And look, you can go on and on and act like it's just a mantle or whatever, but it's T'Challa fans and people have known for decades. It's T'Challa that people have been waiting to see in film. It's T'Challa that's been selling the merchandise. It's T'Challa that got people all excited with Civil War. It's T'Challa's face that was at the forefront of his 1.3 billion dollar grossing solo. It's T'Challa that gave people hope in Endgame.

Chadwick Boseman contributed a lot too that. One could argue he gave too much, more than he should have. And I know Feige is coming from a good place. But at best they may have made a mistake announcing this so soon and at worst, made a mistake that could cost them in the long run.

I honestly think it's better than he make the announcement sooner than later. Whatever decision he would have made would likely have caused some pushback, but at least if it's announced as early as possible it'll give people enough time to digest it and hopefully move on. You have an idea of what you're getting as early as possible. And I think that's better than hiding their intentions, as that potentially creates a false expectations.

[Frontier]

As highly praised as the supporting cast was in the film, now the onus is on them to basically carry the whole film without their lead character who the franchise was basically designed around and kept them all together as a cast...

They are really stuck in an unenviable position.

[MindofShadow]

CGI Chadwick is already off the table. They've said as such.

Killing off T'Challa is going to be a lot more controversial than this announcement. Many have already assumed this is the decision they'll make, and I've already seen way too much backlash against their decision on YouTube, Twitter and Reddit. It's still controversial with some people agreeing with it but it's obviously not as unanimous as Marvel probably hoped for. It depends on if it becomes an actual movement like #ReleaseTheSnyderCut now, but a lot of people aren't happy and have already declared they won't be seeing the film.

If you kill him off, it is going to be really eerie and in really bad taste.

If you don't kill him off and he is just in limbo... the ghost of tchalla or chadwick or whatever is going to linger over the entire film.

Doing the movie in the 5 year snap makes the most sense to avoid the whole thing... but Shuri being snapped too messes that up if they planned on the legacy route.

This is why pushing the movie back made the most sense to let everything breath a bit. It isn't like BP is connected to all this multiverse stuff going on anyway.

[Frontier]

If you kill him off, it is going to be really eerie and in really bad taste.

If you don't kill him off and he is just in limbo... the ghost of tchalla or chadwick or whatever is going to linger over the entire film.

Doing the movie in the 5 year snap makes the most sense to avoid the whole thing... but Shuri being snapped too messes that up if they planned on the legacy route.

This is why pushing the movie back made the most sense to let everything breath a bit. It isn't like BP is connected to all this multiverse stuff going on anyway.

When I read them talking about exploring Wakanda in the next movie I thought it might be the supporting cast going on independent missions with T'Challa off-screen.

[dkrook]

I mean... Falcon is gonna have more on screen time as the original Cao by the time this series is done. If anything jes getting more of an opportunity to be fleshed out than most characters in this franchise. Hes basically getting a 6 hour long movie. Same with Ironheart.

You think this somehow makes up for shuttering up, and ending T'Challa's legacy as the premier black male hero? Sam and Rhodes will always be sidekicks. For Pete's sake Sam admits to being the inferior soldier to Roger's. In another movie Sam says that he's content to just follow Steve's lead. Who will replace the black, noble hero, leader and king?

[dkrook]

I honestly think it's better than he make the announcement sooner than later. Whatever decision he would have made would likely have caused some pushback, but at least if it's announced as early as possible it'll give people enough time to digest it and hopefully move on. You have an idea of what you're getting as early as possible. And I think that's better than hiding their intentions, as that potentially creates a false expectations.

The only false expectation is thinking that taking a high profile black hero off the table is just somehow, okay.

[taozen]

That's like saying the title is Batman not bruce wayne, or Spiderman not Peter Parker, or Cap, or Ironman, Superman etc etc. T'Challa IS the Black Panther. The comics didn't start off by saying "A long line of BPs has been established in Wakanda, with the latest in the long line being T'Challa" from his creation by Lee and Kirby, T'Challa created the mantle. Priest had T'Challa as the first too. Hudlins run originally wasn't supposed to be in universe so he went a different approach, it was so popular it became canon so it got integrated. But let's not pretend that because the title doesn't say "T'Challa, The Black Panther" that it somehow makes T'Challa less legitimate to complete ownership to the mantle. It's his mantle. Straight up.

I think we comic book fans totally agree but I am not sure the film makers agree. You can see the push for female character driven shows in their announcements and I can easily see them push Shuri as the BP for their films. With so many pushing Marvel for more female led films, this is going to happen.

[Ezyo1000]

And look, you can go on and on and act like it's just a mantle or whatever, but it's T'Challa fans and people have known for decades. It's T'Challa that people have been waiting to see in film. It's T'Challa that's been selling the merchandise. It's T'Challa that got people all excited with Civil War. It's T'Challa's face that was at the forefront of his 1.3 billion dollar grossing solo. It's T'Challa that gave people hope in Endgame.

Chadwick Boseman contributed a lot too that. One could argue he gave too much, more than he should have. And I know Feige is coming from a good place. But at best they may have made a mistake announcing this so soon and at worst, made a mistake that could cost them in the long run.

THIS right here this is why I say they rushed. They had no reason to announce this so soon, they could of waited. It hasn't even been 4 months since his passing. Abd maybe Chadwick did, but he legit thought he was going to beat the cancer. Bast I wish he did. But yes your right it's BP that people actually want and who's face on at the center of all the success.

This isn't a Fast and furious situation where the ensemble cast is established and able to continue without Brian. They are asking this not fully developed cast who's whole shine and appeal is based around T'Challa, to carry the weight of the franchise. With out any source material to reference or memorable stories to draw from. And who were fully reliant o. The franchise hero to guide them and bring out their best?? That's an astronomically difficult task ahead of them especially given the cultural impact of the first.

You think this somehow makes up for shuttering up, and ending T'Challa's legacy as the premier black male hero? Sam and Rhodes will always be sidekicks. For Pete's sake Sam admits to being the inferior soldier to Roger's. In another movie Sam says that he's content to just follow Steve's lead. Who will replace the black, noble hero, leader and king?

Didn't he Also get his ass kicked by ant-man? A trained solider got his ass kicked by a thief??