Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[4sake Baned]

I gotta say as a Sam & Rhodey fan.....y'all digging deep with those vibranium claws, lol!

<Ouch!>

So am I but what is being said is tru, they half ass them both at best most time in comics & definitely in MCU. That’s needs to be called out ASAP.. if they were serious about Falcon & WM they wouldnt wrote them literally lesser versions of others or to quote Sam I do everything he does but just slower.. If they were serious both of them would be written as best self’s. Falcon similar to the ultimate version & WM similar to Pak version but without the cyborg stuff. Also both with love interests because this asexual/sexless black male/female stuff needs to end asap.

[MindofShadow]

I gotta say as a Sam & Rhodey fan.....y'all digging deep with those vibranium claws, lol!

<Ouch!>

MCU rhodey sucks lol. His armor is so dope too but he just kinda sucks. He's just a joke sadly. He never broke away from stark in any meaningful way. At least Sam has a completely different powerset than Cap.

I actually like MCU Sam. I hate comic sam. well, used to, they kinda revamped him a bit in Might Avengers under Ewing so he's beeen a bit better. But I relaly like MCU Sam. his tech is much better and cooler, the actor is cool.. i like him.

But he isn't a title character yet lol. He is a sidekick. He is support. Can he break away and be more? We will see. But it is going to be hard not seeing him overshadowed when bucky punches someone with a cool metal arm and they go flying 30 feet lol. Plus, Zemo connects to Bucky much much much more. So this series may quickly become the WS and Falcon show if they aren't careful. Which I like WS too so whatever.

But the criticism gets different when you are talkng about "black leads" in the MCU. That is a different convo and that is when the claws come out when we go, "wtf, there are none!" and some unfan goes "bUt WhAt AbOuT sAm?????"

[MindofShadow]

Literally from the Iron Fist thread:

Captain Britain:

Do you see the point I'm trying to make?

T'chaka ain't no different from Thomas and Martha Wayne lol.

I don't think he did anything "meaningful" in the mythos until it was said by Priest that he met Cap in WW2 lol

[Chesterfield]

Marvel Studios doing Secret Invasion and the chance to gloriously do SWAD...gone just like that. I don't think I can get over this.

[MouserGrey]

What I think is being missed in this debate is the number o story arcs T'Challa actually had over the decades compared to other characters. T'Challa has been around for decades, but any heavy moving of the character (and Wakanda) did not really start happening until Priest. And half of that time was used to decinstruct the character. Just because it happened in the comics and technically there have been a couple others who wore the habit, T'Challa never got enough stories to himself in my opinion for "legacy" or whatever characters to even mean anything other than " batz and spidey" have them so a character with far less world to build on is suddenly supposed to be replaced when so many of his stories were never even told.
I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating it is to have supported this character foralmost 40 years, see the rug get pulled out from u der him over and over, to see the writing on the wall with the introduction of Shuri, to see T'Chall finally become a household name, and then have people clamoring and justifyung Shuri as BP when to many of us long time fans she's just not who we've been rooting for all these years. All of our long term hopes for the character swept away by tragedy, but no bigger than the tragedy that has been the way T'Challa was treated before, and after, Priest.

[MindofShadow]

Marvel Studios doing Secret Invasion and the chance to gloriously do SWAD...gone just like that. I don't think I can get over this.

It is jUsT a MaNtLe

Shuri can do it

[Blind Wedjat]

T'chaka ain't no different from Thomas and Martha Wayne lol.

I don't think he did anything "meaningful" in the mythos until it was said by Priest that he met Cap in WW2 lol

Hell even when T'Challa was no longer Black Panther, he was still leading a book called "Black Panther: Man Without Fear".

To act like the title is not closely associated with him just shows you don't know the source material. I hate sounding like a gatekeeping elitist but come on now.

[Toonstrack]

You think this somehow makes up for shuttering up, and ending T'Challa's legacy as the premier black male hero? Sam and Rhodes will always be sidekicks. For Pete's sake Sam admits to being the inferior soldier to Roger's. In another movie Sam says that he's content to just follow Steve's lead. Who will replace the black, noble hero, leader and king?

This is like saying Dick Grayson/Wally West/Kate Bisbop will always be a sidekick. I disagree.

Some of hall have a seriously limited view of what these characters are capable of. Very old fashioned in my eyes. Its not invalid but I dont totally agree with it.

Many of these characters can gold their own stories and even rogues galleries with the right writer. And the MCU jusy doesn't have the capability to be a carbon copy of a comic character. They don't have the luxury of people who never age or never die. So this kinda thing is going to happen, its awful that It had to be like this but it was bound to happen either via a death of a celeb or him dropping out like Chris.

I still think they aren't going to bring back a TChalla without Chad and I can respect that even if it hurts. Best bet we get an alt universe version.

[Dboi654]

No interaction with the fantastic four

No interaction with Doom.

No Rivalry with Namor

No BP vs Mephisto moment.

No Enemy of the State, Sturm Und Drang & SWAD type story.

No T'Challa Red Zone moment.

What a freaking waste.

[BlackClaw]

No interaction with the fantastic four

No interaction with Doom.

No Rivalry with Namor

No BP vs Mephisto moment.

No Enemy of the State, Sturm Und Drang & SWAD type story.

No T'Challa Red Zone moment.

What a freaking waste.

I know. Peter Parker may have the worst luck in universe but from a meta perspective, it’s definitely T’Challa.

[Ezyo1000]

I don't think you can exacty say it's a herditary title if you can technically win it in a fighting tournament, as Killmonger did.

In practice it's hereditary since the herb is poisonous to people outside their bloodline, but in THEORY it can be won rather than just passed down.

In the more meta sense, I do think Fiege seems to be setting up legacy characters for almost all the solo movie people. Thor and Captain America are locks. And I think we're getting legacy versions of Hawkeye, Black Widow, Ant-Man, and Hulk. Possibly even Captain Marvel even though she just debuted. So I don't think too many people would be that shocked if we got another Black Panther. Just saying.

What RJ is getting at is T'Challa isn't a legacy character because the previous BPs before him did not jump start the franchise. When Lee and Kirby introduced the character it was T'Challa, not T'Chaka, Azzari Bashenga, etc that we were introduced to. It was T'Challa. It's always been T'Challa. Sure we have seen T'Chaka or Azzari or even syan in the habit. However they don't make T'Challa a legacy character Because he has been debuted as the first BP back on 1966.

No one is saying there won't be a legacy character for Black Panther in the MCU. The issue people are having is based around the legacy character taking the mantle and becoming the new faces of the franchise BEFORE T'Challas story has been told. People have waited decade's, their whole lives for T'Challa to appear on the big screen and have his story told and to be robbed of that under the guise of honoring Chadwick and Saying no one else can be T'Challa, is what's upsetting people.

No actor has complete ownership of a character nor do I think any actor is conceited enough to believe they and they alone are the only ones capable of playing the character and if they pass or something happens that character is now off limits to anyone else. I definitely don't see Chadwick doing that and given interviews where he said he wants the character to outlive all of us, that just reinforces that. To rob people that opportunity to see T'Challas story unfold, a character who's been around for 50+ years, likely to a character who's a supporting cast member who's been around for only 15 and has no notable or memorable story or anything attached to them, is just wrong.

[Frontier]

MCU rhodey sucks lol. His armor is so dope too but he just kinda sucks. He's just a joke sadly. He never broke away from stark in any meaningful way. At least Sam has a completely different powerset than Cap.

I actually like MCU Sam. I hate comic sam. well, used to, they kinda revamped him a bit in Might Avengers under Ewing so he's beeen a bit better. But I relaly like MCU Sam. his tech is much better and cooler, the actor is cool.. i like him.

But he isn't a title character yet lol. He is a sidekick. He is support. Can he break away and be more? We will see. But it is going to be hard not seeing him overshadowed when bucky punches someone with a cool metal arm and they go flying 30 feet lol. Plus, Zemo connects to Bucky much much much more. So this series may quickly become the WS and Falcon show if they aren't careful. Which I like WS too so whatever.

But the criticism gets different when you are talkng about "black leads" in the MCU. That is a different convo and that is when the claws come out when we go, "wtf, there are none!" and some unfan goes "bUt WhAt AbOuT sAm?????"

To be honest I got vibes from the trailer that they're toning down Bucky so he could be Sam's sidekick.

[MindofShadow]

No interaction with the fantastic four

No interaction with Doom.

No Rivalry with Namor

No BP vs Mephisto moment.

No Enemy of the State, Sturm Und Drang & SWAD type story.

No T'Challa Red Zone moment.

What a freaking waste.

Never talked to Stark

About 5 mins with Cap at most.

Never talked to Strange.

Never saw him deal with opening up the country.

Never saw him deal with the fact his country isn't as secure as he once thought.

No redemption with W'kabi

No marriage to Nakia. No heir.

Never saw Storm.

[MindofShadow]

To be honest I got vibes from the trailer that they're toning down Bucky so he could be Sam's sidekick.

I have a feeling the bigger and more expansive the MCU gets, the more the power scale will start to get funky

Which sucks, because one of the things I really really really liked was the fact humans couldn't mess with metas and metas couldn't mess with Gods lol. The line was DISTINCT.

[Frontier]

I have a feeling the bigger and more expansive the MCU gets, the more the power scale will start to get funky

Which sucks, because one of the things I really really really liked was the fact humans couldn't mess with metas and metas couldn't mess with Gods lol. The line was DISTINCT.

I feel like they're really going to run into a lot of problems with how overpowered they made Carol come off as in the last movie. Either they tone it down, limit her powers, or somehow come up with threats so powerful it suddenly isn't a cakewalk for her.