Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[Ezyo1000]

Yeah, no shade at Boseman at all, much respect, but this crazy notion that he was so great that no one can ever play T'Challa is straight nonsense.

So instead we get Black Panther II: World of Wakanda with no T'Challa. Why do I want to watch a movie about Wakanda without T'Challa? Not interested.

Ironically enough, this falls exactly into what Chadwick was trying to fight. He wanted to break away the concept that only one Black person can occupy a space at s time, well that's exactly what they are doing right now with T'Challa. No one else is allowed to play T'Challa other that Chadwick and since he passed, the character is being forced to pass with him.

This would make sense if it were a character like N'jobu. Say the character survived and was a fan favorite and poised to return for the sequel, however Sterling passed, it would make more sense for the character to go with the actor Because essentially created for a role that had no history behind it, N'jobu is a Brand new specific character created and exists soley in the MCU and as such is more easily able to retire. T'Challa however existed long before the MCU, before Chad, and has alot of historical Importance to him. Such a character should never be beholden to or retired with any one actor ever Because you saying the actor is bigger then the character and that the character is only as important as the actor who played them.

[skyvolt2000]

Ironically enough, this falls exactly into what Chadwick was trying to fight. He wanted to break away the concept that only one Black person can occupy a space at s time, well that's exactly what they are doing right now with T'Challa. No one else is allowed to play T'Challa other that Chadwick and since he passed, the character is being forced to pass with him.

This would make sense if it were a character like N'jobu. Say the character survived and was a fan favorite and poised to return for the sequel, however Sterling passed, it would make more sense for the character to go with the actor Because essentially created for a role that had no history behind it, N'jobu is a Brand new specific character created and exists soley in the MCU and as such is more easily able to retire. T'Challa however existed long before the MCU, before Chad, and has alot of historical Importance to him. Such a character should never be beholden to or retired with any one actor ever Because you saying the actor is bigger then the character and that the character is only as important as the actor who played them.

In a cases like that-you can get away with using N'Jobu without Sterling. Don't film him from the front or use his stand in (looking at you YOU Star Trek The Next Generation & Voyager and NBC's Las Vega final season).

[XPac]

I never argued that Shuri isn't a legacy character. Kasper is less legitimate though because he was never intended to be BP and was being used.

I will say that preference is wrong. It's basically telling people that the character isn't worth it. A character who shows us powerful representation of what we all should aspire to be, showing us we are more than just gang banging, drug slinging thugs, more then inner city slumming, need a white savior, or suffering through slave after slave movie, or racial injustice.

We are more that that, we have more to offer, and the higher ups are saying. No this character isn't worth continuing. We decided that his story isn't worth exploring further Because it dishonors the actor who played them.. What type of bullshit is that? Again unless you experience what it's like to wait a lifetime for this to have it taken away. This would never happen to Batman superman Spiderman, etc. Yet it's allowed to happen to T'Challa, who resonates with an entire demographic who has been constantly ignored. Shuri doesn't represent what T'Challa represents of we are going off comics she is a regression of progress.

Yes she is different in the MCU but she doesn't have the deep historical relevance and importance to her that T'Challa does have. It's extremely upsetting and people don't see the side of it. They associate Chad to T'Challa but fail to see the cultural and historical relevance and importance that the character Chadwick played represents. These characters don't die.

I think Coogler knows Boseman better than us to the degree that he knows what does or doesn't dishonor him. In the least I'll assume the people who actually know and work with him will have a better understanding of what Boseman would or wouldn't want than any of us.

But certainly representation is important ... and I don't doubt Coogler will give us that with or without Tchalla. Shuri and Okoye won't necessarily become gangbangers just because Tchalla isn't in the movie. If Shuri ends up being BP, it'll likely be in large part due to catering to ignored demographics.

[dkrook]

I think Coogler knows Boseman better than us to the degree that he knows what does or doesn't dishonor him. In the least I'll assume the people who actually know and work with him will have a better understanding of what Boseman would or wouldn't want than any of us.

But certainly representation is important ... and I don't doubt Coogler will give us that with or without Tchalla. Shuri and Okoye won't necessarily become gangbangers just because Tchalla isn't in the movie. If Shuri ends up being BP, it'll likely be in large part due to catering to ignored demographics.

X...amazing how you danced completely around the central part of the statement. T'challa representing the impact, and importance of a black male hero of the historical, cultural, and social magnitude of the level he held is being removed! There's nobody occupying the lane he's currently in for the MCU. We are being sold that removal is to honor an actor that captured, and channeled the enormity of who T'challa is and what he means. That should never on any level mean the experience should die cause the artist giving it did. On a separate note Shuri by her gender, position, and creation will never be able to be the King.

[Dboi654]

Do y'all agree? I don't agree with a few things but he makes sense in some areas.

[Ezyo1000]

I think Coogler knows Boseman better than us to the degree that he knows what does or doesn't dishonor him. In the least I'll assume the people who actually know and work with him will have a better understanding of what Boseman would or wouldn't want than any of us.

But certainly representation is important ... and I don't doubt Coogler will give us that with or without Tchalla. Shuri and Okoye won't necessarily become gangbangers just because Tchalla isn't in the movie. If Shuri ends up being BP, it'll likely be in large part due to catering to ignored demographics.

based on what Chadwick has said and articles about what he has done, such as turning down endorsements Because he wanted to keep the image of BP positive for young kids, would feel disrespected if they recast T'Challa?? Seriously. We don't have to personally know him to know based on what he as said and how he lived his life that he would definitely not want the character to die with him. Dude was way to humble, too think he owned BP soley and therefore was the only one who could play him.

X-Pac.. for real man I don't think you get it. I didn't say anything about them becoming gangbangers. I wasn't talking about the characters in the movie I am talking about Black representation as a whole. Up until the movie we are portrayed as primarily gangbangers, drug slingers, thugs, inner city damaged good that need white savors, sidekick's to white hero's, or constantly seen in slave movies or racial injustice movies. Black panther showed us more, T'Challa represented something more. More that what Shuris character represents and can show thoughout his publication history. Your not getting it. There's more to T'Challa than just being a black man. What he represents isn't something you can just replace with a different poc and call it good. THAT is disrespectful to the character and what he represents

[Ezyo1000]

Do y'all agree? I don't agree with a few things but he makes sense in some areas.

The fact that he claims that since T'Challa was one in "one movie" (he wasn't, he was in 4) and that they can leave it as is and it's different than if RDJ passed before endgame Because he has years and year's of time invested in him, ontop of not recasting... Completely invalidates whatever he was saying. He doesn't get it either and the fact he would be cool with dropping the whole franchise is just as bad as dropping T'Challa out of his own franchise, in fact he goes on to say that they should focus on other franchises out there like x men.. frak that Dude, he is just as ignorant as those in the higher ups that don't understand the importance of what T'CHALLA represents

[Dboi654]

The fact that he claims that since T'Challa was one in "one movie" (he wasn't, he was in 4) and that they can leave it as is and it's different than if RDJ passed before endgame Because he has years and year's of time invested in him, ontop of not recasting... Completely invalidates whatever he was saying. He doesn't get it either and the fact he would be cool with dropping the whole franchise is just as bad as dropping T'Challa out of his own franchise, in fact he goes on to say that they should focus on other franchises out there like x men.. frak that Dude, he is just as ignorant as those in the higher ups that don't understand the importance of what T'CHALLA represents

When he meant one movie, I think he was talking about one solo movie. But you are right in some of the other things you said.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Chadwick Boseman Is Irreplaceable: Black Panther 2 Is Right Not to Try

Anyone’s thoughts on this article? Agree or disagree? It makes some solid arguments, but I still on the recast T’Challa side.

[XPac]

X...amazing how you danced completely around the central part of the statement. T'challa representing the impact, and importance of a black male hero of the historical, cultural, and social magnitude of the level he held is being removed! There's nobody occupying the lane he's currently in for the MCU. We are being sold that removal is to honor an actor that captured, and channeled the enormity of who T'challa is and what he means. That should never on any level mean the experience should die cause the artist giving it did. On a separate note Shuri by her gender, position, and creation will never be able to be the King.

A black male hero is very very important... no question. That said, as far as representation you can make a descent arguement that there are more occupants in the black male lane than the black female lane. Falcon, Blade, and I believe Nick Fury is getting some SHIELD love as far as starring in an MCU vehicle. Point being it's not a wash either way. Coogler can still potray black excelence on the big screen even if it's not with T'Challa.

I do agree with you that just because an actor dies doesn't mean the character needs to. But I also believe that a writer can obviously tell the story he wants to tell. If Coogler has a different story to tell now, then he should tell it (assuming Fiege and Disney are on board of course since it's still their movie).

[Dboi654]

From 21:03 is how I feel about this situation. Apologies for the video posts lol

[XPac]

based on what Chadwick has said and articles about what he has done, such as turning down endorsements Because he wanted to keep the image of BP positive for young kids, would feel disrespected if they recast T'Challa?? Seriously. We don't have to personally know him to know based on what he as said and how he lived his life that he would definitely not want the character to die with him. Dude was way to humble, too think he owned BP soley and therefore was the only one who could play him.

X-Pac.. for real man I don't think you get it. I didn't say anything about them becoming gangbangers. I wasn't talking about the characters in the movie I am talking about Black representation as a whole. Up until the movie we are portrayed as primarily gangbangers, drug slingers, thugs, inner city damaged good that need white savors, sidekick's to white hero's, or constantly seen in slave movies or racial injustice movies. Black panther showed us more, T'Challa represented something more. More that what Shuris character represents and can show thoughout his publication history. Your not getting it. There's more to T'Challa than just being a black man. What he represents isn't something you can just replace with a different poc and call it good. THAT is disrespectful to the character and what he represents

If he flat out said he wants the character to be recast, then fine... we don't need to know the man. But arguing that him stating he wants BP's image to be positive as proof he would be against the direction marvel is going is frankly a stretch. I'll simply say again that Coogler probably has a better idea of where Boseman stands than any of us and leave it at that. We can agre to disagree if you feel otherwise.

And yes it's true that Black Panther showed that black representation can be more than drug slingers and thugs. But maybe Coogler can show us that there's more than just one guy (or gal) in all of fiction that can do that. Coogler pulling that off has more to do with Coogler being good at what he does than the actual Black Panther character. Not that Black Panther isn't an excellent vehicle to do that, but he isn't and shouldn't be the ONLY one. Coogler made a descision to move foreward without that one character... and fans are understandably upset with that. But lets not pretend that you can't potray positive black representation with other characters.

[Ezyo1000]

If he flat out said he wants the character to be recast, then fine... we don't need to know the man. But arguing that him stating he wants BP's image to be positive as proof he would be against the direction marvel is going is frankly a stretch. I'll simply say again that Coogler probably has a better idea of where Boseman stands than any of us and leave it at that. We can agre to disagree if you feel otherwise.

And yes it's true that Black Panther showed that black representation can be more than drug slingers and thugs. But maybe Coogler can show us that there's more than just one guy (or gal) in all of fiction that can do that. Coogler pulling that off has more to do with Coogler being good at what he does than the actual Black Panther character. Not that Black Panther isn't an excellent vehicle to do that, but he isn't and shouldn't be the ONLY one. Coogler made a descision to move foreward without that one character... and fans are understandably upset with that. But lets not pretend that you can't potray positive black representation with other characters.

As I said clearly you don't get it and I'm not going to waste anymore time trying to explain it. The amount of mental gymnastics here is astounding and I'm not going to spend anymore time spelling it out for you when it's clear you don't or willingly choose to ignore what's being said and trying to twist it in a way you can answer in some vague round about manner. Peace.

[Ezyo1000]

When he meant one movie, I think he was talking about one solo movie. But you are right in some of the other things you said.

I know he was talking about the solo movie specifically. But even still leaving that as a standalone movie wouldn't be good because there's more to T'Challas story than just opening up Wakanda. Either way everything he had to say I don't agree with abd clearly he doesn't get the the importance if he thinks that dropping the franchise and focusing on other's (dude mentioned freaking x men?? Seriously??

The one franchise that loves to adopt and romanticize black suffering onto their white heroes whole simultaneously treating their Black characters as 2nd class citizens to a "2nd class" group of people?? Miss me with that) he doesn't get it, and really o don't agree with anything he had to say other then the success of the movie. I don't even think his title BP 2 is going to flop, is true either. It will be successful in the vein that it's a marvel movie and it will see success. However, on comparison to what you would expect from the movie with Chadwick still around or T'Challa being it in it? In that regard I think it will be a flop.

Basically by Marvel movie standards it will be a success, but by Black panther movie standards i think it has a high chance of being a flop

[Ezyo1000]

Chadwick Boseman Is Irreplaceable: Black Panther 2 Is Right Not to Try

Anyone’s thoughts on this article? Agree or disagree? It makes some solid arguments, but I still on the recast T’Challa side.

No. They reference ledger RDJ and Evans but ignore: RDJ and Evans told complete IM and Cap stories. And ledger wasn't the first joker on then screen and honestly, I don't think it's wrong to replace an actor of you still have a story to tell another character. You aren't erasing that persons existence by recasting. Ontop of that, T'Challa is a different beast there is literally no other Black character like him with as much history surrounding them like he does.

Unlike what they say the character IS bigger than the actor, no matter how wonderful the actor played the character that should always be the case. No one will forget Chad. Ever he will always be the OG. The trailblazer. Allow that character to continue.

Cassie lang got recast, yes she isn't the title Character, and people apparently like her former actress who played her on EG but it's cool to recast and move on. Too bad T'Challa can't have that same effort to continue his story