Black Panther Appreciation 2020

[XPac]

As I said clearly you don't get it and I'm not going to waste anymore time trying to explain it. The amount of mental gymnastics here is astounding and I'm not going to spend anymore time spelling it out for you when it's clear you don't or willingly choose to ignore what's being said and trying to twist it in a way you can answer in some vague round about manner. Peace.

It's fine to think people who disagree with you don't get it. I'm 100% sure many people reading the complaints about a female lead taking over BP feel they don't get it.

Bottom line is no one needs to get it, because it's not a democracy. We don't get a vote. Coogler makes the movie he feels he should make regardless of whether certain people get what he's doing or not, and all we get to do is vote with our dollars after the fact.

[Vic Vega]

Yeah, no shade at Boseman at all, much respect, but this crazy notion that he was so great that no one can ever play T'Challa is straight nonsense.

So instead we get Black Panther II: World of Wakanda with no T'Challa. Why do I want to watch a movie about Wakanda without T'Challa? Not interested.

People were saying that they couldn't ever imagine anyone other than RDJ playing Iron Man after just the first Iron Man and Boseman was at a higher level of fame when he took on T'Challa.

He'd already played James Brown and Thurgood Marshall. If he'd gotten a role in a movie like Glory he'd of had an Oscar by now.

Marvel made guys like RDJ and Chris Evans leading men. Boseman already was one.

This is the Heath Ledger situation all over again but worse because nobody saw it coming.

[Ezyo1000]

From 21:03 is how I feel about this situation. Apologies for the video posts lol

I agree with this, especially at 27:20. This sums it up perfectly really for why they should of recast

[Ezyo1000]

It's fine to think people who disagree with you don't get it. I'm 100% sure many people reading the complaints about a female lead taking over BP feel they don't get it.

Bottom line is no one needs to get it, because it's not a democracy. We don't get a vote. Coogler makes the movie he feels he should make regardless of whether certain people get what he's doing or not, and all we get to do is vote with our dollars after the fact.

Nah, that ain't it buddy, your responses tell me that. But whatever man do you

[skyvolt2000]

The fact that he claims that since T'Challa was one in "one movie" (he wasn't, he was in 4) and that they can leave it as is and it's different than if RDJ passed before endgame Because he has years and year's of time invested in him, ontop of not recasting... Completely invalidates whatever he was saying. He doesn't get it either and the fact he would be cool with dropping the whole franchise is just as bad as dropping T'Challa out of his own franchise, in fact he goes on to say that they should focus on other franchises out there like x men.. frak that Dude, he is just as ignorant as those in the higher ups that don't understand the importance of what T'CHALLA represents

Get ready to see a LOT more of that. Because that is who is celebrating behind closed doors. Among other franchises. They now have an opening.

Coogler made a descision to move foreward without that one character... and fans are understandably upset with that. But lets not pretend that you can't potray positive black representation with other characters.

Here is the point that you are missing while Coolger could do a black positive character with someone else. The ISSUE will be acceptance by the public and what investment Disney will have in it. Not to mention the usual suspects who will try to make that movie flop.

There is a reason we don't have a Cyborg movie. There is a reason black female lead movies tend to struggle.

There is a reason Bitter Root, Goldie Vance, Static and Black got movie deals.

It's not that easy.

So who is that black person going to be? Excluding Miles and Luke Cage-who has that comic book material? Or someone who we have NOT seen in the movies?

Marvel is in same boat as DC-don't have anybody.

[skyvolt2000]

It's fine to think people who disagree with you don't get it. I'm 100% sure many people reading the complaints about a female lead taking over BP feel they don't get it.

If it's Shuri-get ready for a bigger bomb.

Folks are not going to see a Black Panther in name only. Now World of Wakanda-fine.

I just know I am NOT in the mood to hear fake woke or black feminist or gators come RUN out the wood work blaming black men for it.

I am not even in mood for Coolger or the cast to pull that mess.

This is ammo folks like Ike will use to justify excluding us from film. If it bombs.

[XPac]

If it's Shuri-get ready for a bigger bomb.

Folks are not going to see a Black Panther in name only. Now World of Wakanda-fine.

I just know I am NOT in the mood to hear fake woke or black feminist or gators come RUN out the wood work blaming black men for it.

I am not even in mood for Coolger or the cast to pull that mess.

This is ammo folks like Ike will use to justify excluding us from film. If it bombs.

The thing is, 2 dozen movies in and the MCU has yet to produce a bomb. To vary degrees, pretty much all the marvel movies have been critically and commercially acceptable enough to keep the momentum of the MCU going 2 dozen movies in. IF the MCU ever does end up with a bomb, my money is not on the billion dollar oscar winning franchise.

Plus, covid will likely force EVERY movie to recalibrate their formula of sucess anyways. Hell, we might end up watching all this on Disney Plus.

[dkrook]

The thing is, 2 dozen movies in and the MCU has yet to produce a bomb. To vary degrees, pretty much all the marvel movies have been critically and commercially acceptable enough to keep the momentum of the MCU going 2 dozen movies in. IF the MCU ever does end up with a bomb, my money is not on the billion dollar oscar winning franchise.

Plus, covid will likely force EVERY movie to recalibrate their formula of sucess anyways. Hell, we might end up watching all this on Disney Plus.

Funny cause the franchise your mentioning is about King T'Challa, the one that you seem to think isn't really all that vital to HIS OWN movie! Lol, Black men have a habit of flipping the world's expectations, I have a feeling this will again shock the Marvel universe but not in the way you think. Feige and Coogler may think time is on their side. I think the ire will be turned up just when the movie is due to come out again. Twitter will be hot with the conversation of why a black man, King that carried his movie beyond the heights of his white peers was done like this.

[XPac]

Funny cause the franchise your mentioning is about King T'Challa, the one that you seem to think isn't really all that vital to HIS OWN movie! Lol, Black men have a habit of flipping the world's expectations, I have a feeling this will again shock the Marvel universe but not in the way you think. Feige and Coogler may think time is on their side. I think the ire will be turned up just when the movie is due to come out again. Twitter will be hot with the conversation of why a black man, King that carried his movie beyond the heights of his white peers was done like this.

It's not like Black Panther is Cooglers first rodeo. He has a pretty good track record prior to Black Panther, so I don't think we can count him out as far as making a sucessful movie without the T'Challa character.

Not that there won't be ire on twitter... that would happen regardless of what they do.

[BlackClaw]

If it's Shuri-get ready for a bigger bomb.

Folks are not going to see a Black Panther in name only. Now World of Wakanda-fine.

I just know I am NOT in the mood to hear fake woke or black feminist or gators come RUN out the wood work blaming black men for it.

I am not even in mood for Coolger or the cast to pull that mess.

This is ammo folks like Ike will use to justify excluding us from film. If it bombs.

Oh I know which ones you’re talking about. They’re all over Twitter, whenever you say you want T’Challas story to continue they’ll immediately accuse you of being sexist even when you haven’t said shit about Shuri. And these are some of the same people that dragged Letitia for those dumb tweets.

[Ekie]

It's fine to think people who disagree with you don't get it. I'm 100% sure many people reading the complaints about a female lead taking over BP feel they don't get it.

Bottom line is no one needs to get it, because it's not a democracy. We don't get a vote. Coogler makes the movie he feels he should make regardless of whether certain people get what he's doing or not, and all we get to do is vote with our dollars after the fact.

Marvel/Disney makes the big choices like this. They arent givung full control of a billion dollar franchise to anyone. Especially when they see even the franchise character as expendable. Stop with the Coogler god talk

[Ezyo1000]

What story can you even tell? None of these characters have rogues of their own, or anything to reference. Not even Shuri, plus the only one who's really ventured outside Wakanda is Nakia. No super powered King.

No HSH, no ancestral plane. Okoyes a guard who protects the royal family, Nakia is the spy, Shuris the lab rat, and M'Baku is a leader who isn't going to be going out on adventures like T'Challa would...

So what do you even do with that? None of them have the political acumen to navigate politics, so political thriller and intrigue is out the window. None of them have powers do the villain would have to be a regular human.

T'Challa is the one to open Wakanda and deal with the responsibility of that choice as hes king none of the others have that authority. I mean, it's going to be really obvious that there's a huge void by not having T'Challa around because he is the one who enabled them to their specific role. Unless all of a sudden they all adopt all of his characteristics in which thats just another can of worms. I really don't see what where the interest is going to come from. This would of been better off as a spin off show.

[XPac]

Marvel/Disney makes the big choices like this. They arent givung full control of a billion dollar franchise to anyone. Especially when they see even the franchise character as expendable. Stop with the Coogler god talk

I'm sure Fiege and Coogler both had imput on the matter and it's a collaborative effort, but the bottom line is that Coogler is the writer and director of the movie. It's his name on the product, so he gets the lions share of the credit and the blame. It's not like he's hard up for work if they don't support his vision of the movie. Until he flat out states that he was forced into the direction he's in there's no reason to believe he doesn't support it.

[chief12d]

What story can you even tell? None of these characters have rogues of their own, or anything to reference. Not even Shuri, plus the only one who's really ventured outside Wakanda is Nakia. No super powered King.

No HSH, no ancestral plane. Okoyes a guard who protects the royal family, Nakia is the spy, Shuris the lab rat, and M'Baku is a leader who isn't going to be going out on adventures like T'Challa would...

So what do you even do with that? None of them have the political acumen to navigate politics, so political thriller and intrigue is out the window. None of them have powers do the villain would have to be a regular human.

T'Challa is the one to open Wakanda and deal with the responsibility of that choice as hes king none of the others have that authority. I mean, it's going to be really obvious that there's a huge void by not having T'Challa around because he is the one who enabled them to their specific role. Unless all of a sudden they all adopt all of his characteristics in which thats just another can of worms. I really don't see what where the interest is going to come from. This would of been better off as a spin off show.

I mean they're gonna write T'Challa out then force the side characters to carry the story he was supposed be the center of. It could be great or it could be ass. If it's a war with Atlantis, which many have speculated, then it's gonna be them against Namor and some secondary antagonist like Junta or Attuma. If it's a less tanky villain they're going up against, like Achebe, they'd take him on too but with a more strategic edge.

I don't think Coogler made fundamental changes to the script, it's quite likely he just added in a scene recognizing T'Challa's death and inserted Shuri or some other character into the scenes he was supposed to be in. Then he maybe beefed up the other characters' roles so it feels like an ensemble, which I think is the best direction at this point. He probably kept the same general story beats but completely reworked the dialogue meaning there weren't any fundamental changes to the design, action set pieces, etc.

[XPac]

What story can you even tell? None of these characters have rogues of their own, or anything to reference. Not even Shuri, plus the only one who's really ventured outside Wakanda is Nakia. No super powered King.

No HSH, no ancestral plane. Okoyes a guard who protects the royal family, Nakia is the spy, Shuris the lab rat, and M'Baku is a leader who isn't going to be going out on adventures like T'Challa would...

So what do you even do with that? None of them have the political acumen to navigate politics, so political thriller and intrigue is out the window. None of them have powers do the villain would have to be a regular human.

T'Challa is the one to open Wakanda and deal with the responsibility of that choice as hes king none of the others have that authority. I mean, it's going to be really obvious that there's a huge void by not having T'Challa around because he is the one who enabled them to their specific role. Unless all of a sudden they all adopt all of his characteristics in which thats just another can of worms. I really don't see what where the interest is going to come from. This would of been better off as a spin off show.

A movie is easier than a spin off show. If they can't create 2 hours of content based on these characters, they certainly can't generate 2-3 times that content in a TV show.

As far as them fighting regular humans... Nakia, Shuri, and M'Baku fought Thanos army in Infinity War and End Game. I don't expect them to be throwing down with Galactus, but they should do fine especially with Wakandan tech supporting them. There are plenty of super heroes without super powers, so it's not a deal breaker. Frankly I think Cooglers best fight scenes in the first BP movie were the ones that didn't involve super powers (ie the water fall stuff, in comparison to the final fight).