Page 16 of 63 FirstFirst ... 612131415161718192026 ... LastLast
Results 226 to 240 of 941
  1. #226
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    711

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    She appeared also as a very guarded person, having difficulties to trust anyone, so she didn't form meaningful relationships outside the team. Maybe her loneliness was her biggest weakness making her also a mysterious character without much development back then.
    Absolutely. And this is what could have been used as a complication to her relationship with Jean. Writing all the characters as perfectly getting along isn't interesting, but what Guggs could have done was have Rachel struggling to have Jean in her life essentially being her mom when she's an adult.

    While Jean & Rachel have sort of built a relationship, it's not really been tested. But instead what all writers do is just make everything superficial and go back to old ideas - Jean and Rachel not getting along. And maybe explaining all of that to a new reader would be confusing. But I suspect that the issue is writers understanding the characters at such an incredibly basic level that that is the way they view them.

  2. #227
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    7,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ClanAskani View Post
    Absolutely. And this is what could have been used as a complication to her relationship with Jean. Writing all the characters as perfectly getting along isn't interesting, but what Guggs could have done was have Rachel struggling to have Jean in her life essentially being her mom when she's an adult.

    While Jean & Rachel have sort of built a relationship, it's not really been tested. But instead what all writers do is just make everything superficial and go back to old ideas - Jean and Rachel not getting along. And maybe explaining all of that to a new reader would be confusing. But I suspect that the issue is writers understanding the characters at such an incredibly basic level that that is the way they view them.
    Some people think it is weird but I find it so interesting. What would anybody do on a situation like that?

    If you met your diseased mother (even if it is on other universe or timeline) wouldn't you want to know and bond with her?
    Rachel lost Jean pretty early on her life and now she has a chance to know her better, it is weird but I think it is something worth exploring.

    And the same for Jean, Jean has never been pregnant (with how marvel works she probably never will) but still she has the oppotunity to experience how a child of her could be, the person she would grow up to be.

    Yeah, it is a crazy situation with time travel but it is interesting. Anybody on either on their situations would be at least a bit curious, not acting like strangers

    they don't have to be best friends or perfect but i think i would be nice to see them have some sort of relationship
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 02-17-2020 at 04:33 PM.

  3. #228
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    27,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    Some people think it is weird but I find it so interesting. What would anybody do on a situation like that?

    If you met your diseased mother (even if it is on other universe or timeline) wouldn't you want to know and bond with her?
    Rachel lost Jean pretty early on her life and now she has a chance to know her better, it is weird but I think it is something worth exploring.

    And the same for Jean, Jean has never been pregnant (with how marvel works she probably never will) but still she has the oppotunity to experience how a child of her could be, the person she would grow up to be.


    Yeah, it is a crazy situation with time travel but it is interesting. Anybody on either on their situations would be at least a bit curious, not acting like strangers

    they don't have to be best friends or perfect but i think i would be nice to see them have some sort of relationship
    She already did with Cable. Not only does she have all of Maddie's memories of being pregnant, she raised him from infancy to pre-teen years and she's bonded with and maintained a relationship with him as an adult. She doesnt long to know whats it like to have a child the way Rachel may have in terms of wanting a parent bc its not an experience that Jean has lacked. It hasnt been dealt with in any meaningful detail but they live together so we can only presume that they have been exploring a relationship
    Last edited by Havok83; 02-17-2020 at 04:41 PM.

  4. #229
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    7,554

    Default

    True, I loved what Jean did for Cable and while it would be similar I think there are certain diferences. Even if Cable is way older than Jean, I think she was pretty open with him to the point were the all the time travel drama (or drama in general between them) got lost and wasn't explored, outside of their ages it is almost a non factor between them.
    Rachel is younger, a girl and very similar to Jean (to the point were many people doubt Scott is related to her). Rachel losing Jean was a more meaningful and traumatic experience for her.
    Both characters are on different points of their lives regarding each other. Cable is an old guy that has become a father himself. Rachel while an adult too, hasn't figured everything yet. Cable's entire life from the start has been defined by time travel, For Rachel traveling through time/universe was a huge change.
    Both could see Jean diferently and she could she different things on each one.
    Last edited by phoenixzero23; 02-17-2020 at 05:08 PM.

  5. #230
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    3,839

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She already did with Cable. Not only does she have all of Maddie's memories of being pregnant, she raised him from infancy to pre-teen years and she's bonded with and maintained a relationship with him as an adult. She doesnt long to know whats it like to have a child the way Rachel may have in terms of wanting a parent bc its not an experience that Jean has lacked. It hasnt been dealt with in any meaningful detail but they live together so we can only presume that they have been exploring a relationship
    Yes, Jean (and Scott) got that experience......because of Rachel. It shows how selfless Rachel can be. I think that while many writers acknowledge that Jean and Scott got to raise Nate, they typically forget that Rachel was the reason why they got to. It explains Nate's motivation in X-Force to find Rachel since no one else was worried/cared.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    True, I loved what Jean did for Cable and while it would be similar I think there are certain diferences. Even if Cable is way older than Jean, I think she was pretty open with him to the point were the all the time travel drama (or drama in general between them) got lost and wasn't explored, outside of their ages it is almost a non factor between them.
    Rachel is younger, a girl and very similar to Jean (to the point were many people doubt Scott is related to her). Rachel losing Jean was a more meaningful and traumatic experience for her.
    Both characters are on different points of their lives regarding each other. Cable is an old guy that has become a father himself. Rachel while an adult too, hasn't figured everything yet. Cable's entire life from the start has been defined by time travel, For Rachel traveling through time/universe was a huge change.
    Both could see Jean diferently and she could she different things on each one.
    I think that it's interesting that both Hope and Jean (via Jeen) have had the experience of growing up outside of your time to prevent something awful from happening, but have not connected with Rachel on it as she's the OG with that plot point. You would think that after receiving her memories back from Jeen, Jean might understand what it's like to be out of time and facing people and situations you didn't expect to handle. And same with Hope. But all we have gotten is literally no interactions ever with Rachel for Hope, and nothing for Rachel and Jean since Extermination. For me, it was the CLEAREST way for Rachel and Jeen to interact and bond a little, but Bendis didn't want it to happen. I believe that X-Factor will change things for Rachel and Hope (maybe), but I don't anticipate seeing anything on the horizon for Rachel and Jean.

  6. #231
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    27,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    Yes, Jean (and Scott) got that experience......because of Rachel. It shows how selfless Rachel can be. I think that while many writers acknowledge that Jean and Scott got to raise Nate, they typically forget that Rachel was the reason why they got to. It explains Nate's motivation in X-Force to find Rachel since no one else was worried/cared.
    I almost feel like that tends to happen bc it was Mother Askani that did it and that doesnt appear to be a part of who Rachel has been since coming back to the time stream. I think most writers probably consider it an alternate future character than the current Rachel of the modern books

  7. #232
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    3,839

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I almost feel like that tends to happen bc it was Mother Askani that did it and that doesnt appear to be a part of who Rachel has been since coming back to the time stream. I think most writers probably consider it an alternate future character than the current Rachel of the modern books
    I hear that. Especially since Rachel has frazzled memories of the Askani timeline (maybe less since she got the power-up from Mother Askani), she doesn't remember doing it. But the others do. That that should count for something, but I think you're on the nose that most writers and editors view it that way.

  8. #233
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    711

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    I hear that. Especially since Rachel has frazzled memories of the Askani timeline (maybe less since she got the power-up from Mother Askani), she doesn't remember doing it. But the others do. That that should count for something, but I think you're on the nose that most writers and editors view it that way.
    Scott and Jean do remember what happened in the Askani timeline and both are caring people who would want to make things right with Rachel and be parental. And I think that's where the conflict could come in. Rachel's an adult, they aren't technically her parents and a lot of people can related to the challenge of dealing with trying to figure out an adult relationship with your parents. With Rachel, it's even more complicated.

    But too many editors and writers just want to ignore what happened. It was erased so they don't need to bother even reading about it. Or they explain away that it's too complicated.

    X-Books have soap opera type relationships amped up due to sci-fi craziness. All young adults have issues with their parents, Rachel's issues are even greater. I don't see why that's so difficult for writers to understand. And it makes it far more interesting than just surface level of their weird family situation.

  9. #234
    Astonishing Member MechaJeanix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Appalachia
    Posts
    2,304

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Askani's Flame View Post
    I hear that. Especially since Rachel has frazzled memories of the Askani timeline (maybe less since she got the power-up from Mother Askani), she doesn't remember doing it. But the others do. That that should count for something, but I think you're on the nose that most writers and editors view it that way.
    This is just my random opinion but Rachel should be allowed to remember the memories and experiences as Mother Askani just as Jean should the White Phoenix of the Crown from Here Comes Tomorrow and Endsong. Poor Rachel and Jean have the same syndrome where some of their best stories/moments are retconned from the characters.

  10. #235
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    3,839

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ClanAskani View Post
    Scott and Jean do remember what happened in the Askani timeline and both are caring people who would want to make things right with Rachel and be parental. And I think that's where the conflict could come in. Rachel's an adult, they aren't technically her parents and a lot of people can related to the challenge of dealing with trying to figure out an adult relationship with your parents. With Rachel, it's even more complicated.

    But too many editors and writers just want to ignore what happened. It was erased so they don't need to bother even reading about it. Or they explain away that it's too complicated.

    X-Books have soap opera type relationships amped up due to sci-fi craziness. All young adults have issues with their parents, Rachel's issues are even greater. I don't see why that's so difficult for writers to understand. And it makes it far more interesting than just surface level of their weird family situation.
    Here is my opinion on this: The Scott and Jean of the 90's were exactly as you described. The Scott of and Jean of now are not those people. Too many things have happened to them. Do they remember what happened, sure. Of course they do. But does that mean that it influences how they react and treat her after that? No, it doesn't. I think Scott made attempts when she first came back to the X-Men, but she was the noob Claremont regressed her to so she was real bratty and living her best(worst) teenage life then...again. At no point was it brought up. Some touching moments around the death of the Greys, then nothing. A touching moment at the end of "Age of X", with no follow-up from Scott. While being a tempermental adult, I'm sure it's not easy to digest and care for someone who is your child from another future that is Rachel. We've discussed Jean's interactions with Rachel (both Jeen and Jean) at naseum here.

    But at no point is it ever referenced with Jean or Scott the amount of gratitude for giving them a life with Nate. Not just to her, but others. Or their happiness that she isn't dead since she died in front of them. Small beats that show the compassion and personalities that were and are supposed to be these characters. Instead writers ignored it out of convenience, but made large plot points of it when it came to others. My bone to pick, but overall I would think that their would be more compassion shown to Rachel, not parenting, from these two adults. Not off panel, on panel.

    Quote Originally Posted by MechaJeanix View Post
    This is just my random opinion but Rachel should be allowed to remember the memories and experiences as Mother Askani just as Jean should the White Phoenix of the Crown from Here Comes Tomorrow and Endsong. Poor Rachel and Jean have the same syndrome where some of their best stories/moments are retconned from the characters.
    I agree. I think it's slightly more complicated with Jean since HCT was an alt. future. Endsong definitely should have been remembered. But the concept of the Phoenix has continued to change, especially the idea of the WPoTC. But she should know. It would help inform her interactions with people. Whereas I think Rachel should have access to her memories as Mother Askani due to her connection with Mother Askani in X-Force.

  11. #236
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    5,733

    Default

    “Memory” is a strange concept to a woman with chronaesthesia. She can open up time the way we open up our iPhones.

  12. #237
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    7,554

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    “Memory” is a strange concept to a woman with chronaesthesia. She can open up time the way we open up our iPhones.
    It would so interesting to explore this aspect of Rachel more.

  13. #238
    BANNED spirit2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    11,824

    Default


  14. #239
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    27,614

    Default

    That costume looks good for Rachel

  15. #240
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    That’s more like Rachel we know and love. Spikes, leather jacket, and facial tats. She not the hammer pants kinda chic

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •