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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Really? I felt that book set Rachel back in some of the worst ways. I think Guggs had a interesting idea for her but his execution was horrible and he did not handle her well at all
    I get the hate. She was mind controlled really easily by a third rate villain. Still though she had a power increase and was viewed as a powerhouse on the team. I think it was unfortunate that whole time really because of the extermination event and what not they really had to deal with how they wanted her powerful but needed her out of the way. Kind of follows how she has been treated throughout the years.

  2. #212
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott402 View Post
    I get the hate. She was mind controlled really easily by a third rate villain. Still though she had a power increase and was viewed as a powerhouse on the team. I think it was unfortunate that whole time really because of the extermination event and what not they really had to deal with how they wanted her powerful but needed her out of the way. Kind of follows how she has been treated throughout the years.
    She didnt have a power increase though. Lets say in the past, her power levels were at a 9. Guggs set her back to a 4 and had characters proclaiming that she was now at a 6. Just bc he said she had a power increase doesnt mean it was worth anything when he didnt write her that way. Rachel in that book was weak and ineffective. Nothing she did there was beyond the realm of her past capabilities. Rogue and Storm were trolling when they were so shocked to see her be able to use her TP long distance as if she's never done that before
    Last edited by Havok83; 02-16-2020 at 01:02 PM.

  3. #213
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Not to mention how she constantly fainted after using her powers. TAS Jean was so proud of her girl.

  4. #214
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Rachel's a character whose sole purpose seems to be trauma porn.

    Her sexuality is nebulous because her trauma has led her to emotional fixations on women: 1. Kitty Pryde, 2. Jean Grey, and 3. Selene.
    I start reading Rachel's adventures with Excalibur and she didn't appear then as a pitiful figure at all. She had some flashbacks but, overall, she was able to overcome her difficulties from the past, just adding some flaws to such a powerful character and the fact that she played an important part in the Excalibur team suited her: in the Excalibur cover, she was in the middle with her teamates around her.

    She appeared also as a very guarded person, having difficulties to trust anyone, so she didn't form meaningful relationships outside the team. Maybe her loneliness was her biggest weakness making her also a mysterious character without much development back then.

  5. #215
    Astonishing Member Ferro's Avatar
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    my mom said new rachel looked like my aunt in the 90's, an my aunt is fly to this day

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She didnt have a power increase though. Lets say in the past, her power levels were at a 9. Guggs set her back to a 4 and had characters proclaiming that she was now at a 6. Just bc he said she had a power increase doesnt mean it was worth anything when he didnt write her that way. Rachel in that book was weak and ineffective. Nothing she did there was beyond the realm of her past capabilities. Rogue and Storm were trolling when they were so shocked to see her be able to use her TP long distance as if she's never done that before
    I agree with your point regarding her power levels. Never thought of it like that but you are right. She was depowered and really only just brought back up to her natural power levels. Guess I just liked that she as being written about lol. I don't think Storm and Rogue weren't trolling lol but just in keeping with how the writer was writing the characters at the time.
    Last edited by Scott402; 02-16-2020 at 05:46 PM.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She didnt have a power increase though. Lets say in the past, her power levels were at a 9. Guggs set her back to a 4 and had characters proclaiming that she was now at a 6. Just bc he said she had a power increase doesnt mean it was worth anything when he didnt write her that way. Rachel in that book was weak and ineffective. Nothing she did there was beyond the realm of her past capabilities. Rogue and Storm were trolling when they were so shocked to see her be able to use her TP long distance as if she's never done that before
    You’re right. During AvX she took down Avengers like Thor! During BOTA, with Emma’s officially having to rely on the Cuckoos she her powers being broken, Rachel was easily the most powerful telepath as Jeen was pretty new to all this.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thirteen View Post
    (Double post)
    But here’s my favorite pic of Rachel so it’s not a waste of space!
    Great Picture, but it is Alan Davis so that is a given^^

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She didnt have a power increase though. Lets say in the past, her power levels were at a 9. Guggs set her back to a 4 and had characters proclaiming that she was now at a 6. Just bc he said she had a power increase doesnt mean it was worth anything when he didnt write her that way. Rachel in that book was weak and ineffective. Nothing she did there was beyond the realm of her past capabilities. Rogue and Storm were trolling when they were so shocked to see her be able to use her TP long distance as if she's never done that before
    Wish we could fav a post. She was more powerful in the 80s before the Phoenix showing up. So I think the best part of Gold was her getting a new costume. Did Gold even get one character Right? I am not remembering any.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    You’re right. During AvX she took down Avengers like Thor! During BOTA, with Emma’s officially having to rely on the Cuckoos she her powers being broken, Rachel was easily the most powerful telepath as Jeen was pretty new to all this.
    I think that was the one Thing AvX got right^^

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    You’re right. During AvX she took down Avengers like Thor! During BOTA, with Emma’s officially having to rely on the Cuckoos she her powers being broken, Rachel was easily the most powerful telepath as Jeen was pretty new to all this.
    I wish Jean would treat Rachel the way Emma treats the Cuckoos. She could be her back up Telepath and firepower. Might as well embrace their connection. Maybe she could be written more as skilled fighter rather than helpless telepath. They could set limits on her telekinesis and focus on her skills as a hound. They could emphasis her signature traits like her facial tattoos, spikes, and leather jackets. She can psi-mitar when she fights. Rather than ignore her complicated past, might as well embrace aspects that define her growth. She doesn’t have to be overpowered and a wanna be Jean. She can be her own person for once. I’d love to see her beat the crap of the wack as telepath that tries to brain wash her.

  12. #222
    Astonishing Member Askani's Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott402 View Post
    I get the hate. She was mind controlled really easily by a third rate villain. Still though she had a power increase and was viewed as a powerhouse on the team. I think it was unfortunate that whole time really because of the extermination event and what not they really had to deal with how they wanted her powerful but needed her out of the way. Kind of follows how she has been treated throughout the years.
    It's warranted hate for me. Rachel is supposedly one of Guggenheim fav X-Men. He wrote a powerful Rachel in the Secret Wars series where she was the leader of the X-Men and Baron of her realm. I was hoping to see some of that Rachel. Instead we got TAS Jean 2.0. First with the ridiculous moniker and costume from Kitty (who really must have been threatened or hated Rachel in that moment), and then she's taken out EVERY ISSUE. Like there were three things you could count on in each issue: Rachel passes out using her powers, Storm uses lightning and says "my friend", and Kitty being unsufferable. Then there was the whole upgrade thing which Havok explains beautifully:

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    She didnt have a power increase though. Lets say in the past, her power levels were at a 9. Guggs set her back to a 4 and had characters proclaiming that she was now at a 6. Just bc he said she had a power increase doesnt mean it was worth anything when he didnt write her that way. Rachel in that book was weak and ineffective. Nothing she did there was beyond the realm of her past capabilities. Rogue and Storm were trolling when they were so shocked to see her be able to use her TP long distance as if she's never done that before
    Rachel had created mini black holes, sent her Astral form millions of miles through the cosmos, telepathically scanned the minds of every being on the planet simultaneously without aid, and here she is straining to find Bobby 10 miles away. I get that he was trying to make Mesmero a threat, but he ruined Rachel. And I quasi know why. As I've stated before, JDW said that when they were planning Extermination they knew Rachel needed to be involved and hounds were important. So before he took the reins as head editor, there had been a plan for a synergistic approach to making Rachel a hound or susceptible to becoming a hound again. Mesmero, Mojo, Cassandra were all supposed to lead her to this moment. But all that synergy fell apart as the writers didn't work with each other. So instead we got a mind controlled Rachel simultaneously in the books with no explanation which ruined her. And then once Brisson got an X-Force series greenlit, he then decided to keep her as a hound as unfinished business for Cable. When in reality it just ruined her more. They didn't need to clear her off the board, they just didn't care and thought readers would want to have her saved. The office miscalculated how poorly she was treated by writers and how readers would response to her treatment as JDW said he would have rethought how his writers approached her story as it was one abusive story after another. In 9 months after she was rehounded the only words she could utter between her frothing at the mouth were "mutants" and die. Whereas EVERY OTHER HOUND SPOKE IN FULL SENTENCES TO AHAB AND OTHERS.

    So the Gold-Extermination-X-Force were was horrendous for Rachel.
    Last edited by Askani's Flame; 02-17-2020 at 07:14 AM.

  13. #223
    Spectacular Member Omega_DCD's Avatar
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    X-Men Gold was horrible to Rachel for all the reasons mentioned, and in addition, it had Rachel talking shit about Jean(that Mojoverse arc) and have Jean say stuff like "I'm not your mother" to Rachel...as of we're back to 1989.

    Jean has long since apologized to Rachel, Rachel was the very first person Jean told about her plans to marry Scott, they bonded in The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, and have both paid tribute to each other

    Thank God for their interactions in X-Men Red

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega_DCD View Post
    X-Men Gold was horrible to Rachel for all the reasons mentioned, and in addition, it had Rachel talking shit about Jean(that Mojoverse arc) and have Jean say stuff like "I'm not your mother" to Rachel...as of we're back to 1989.

    Jean has long since apologized to Rachel, Rachel was the very first person Jean told about her plans to marry Scott, they bonded in The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix, and have both paid tribute to each other

    Thank God for their interactions in X-Men Red
    That was a horrible moment when she as making sure Rachel was alright. I mean just to even please the fans instead of that one line she could have said something along the lines of "anything for my daughter" or something. I still liked Gold though. I guess I was just starved for Rachel and didn't really put it all together lol.

    Red was so much better for Rachel and showed that even when they default to mind controlled Rachel she is angry about it afterwards and can pack a real punch when she wants to.

  15. #225
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    The one thing I disliked about Rachel's use in Red was that there was no followup to her being mind controlled. Jean freed her and thats it. We should have had a scene with Kurt (since Taylor referenced their relationship right before this) and she should have been in that final battle.

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