Rachel (Grey) Summers: Phoenix II Appreciation 2020

[Askani5]

She looked great with that hair length, my favorite hairstyle so far.
Rachel with long hair will be too similar to Jean.

Maybe it’s time to bring back Rachel’s ponytail

[askani_son]

Rachel by beefcakeboss
https://twitter.com/beefcakeboss2

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[Scott402]

Just saw an image preview for the big X-Men crossover event and it's got Rachel right there in the centre in her traditional red Excalibur costume. Looks really good.

[Askani's Flame]

Just saw an image preview for the big X-Men crossover event and it's got Rachel right there in the centre in her traditional red Excalibur costume. Looks really good.

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She's not in her red hound outfit, she's in her WatX outfit sans turkey trench.

BUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTT

She's wielding the Rook'shir Blade, aka "The Blade of the Phoenix". So she must have to go back are recollect it from Korvus. BYE KORVUS, JUST HERE FOR YOUR BUSTER SWORD

[Scott402]

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She's not in her red hound outfit, she's in her WatX outfit sans turkey trench.

BUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTTTTT

She's wielding the Rook'shir Blade, aka "The Blade of the Phoenix". So she must have to go back are recollect it from Korvus. BYE KORVUS, JUST HERE FOR YOUR BUSTER SWORD

You might be right about that. The image I saw was small but it looked a lot like the hound outfit. I didn't even think of her and the blade. I didn't put that together. That is really awesome.

[Cerridwen]

last time she was in an X-event promo artwork by Mark Brooks, she didn't even appear in any issues LOL

[MechaJeanix]

Yeah I would be cautiously optimistic. Hopefully Rachel will be included in some way. I hope Jean has some sort of role to play. I know I’m in the minority about this but I wish both Jean and Rachel still had some sort of Phoenix connection even if it was something minor.

At least soon Rachel will be on a team and I would think Leah Williams would use her very well -personality and power wise.

[Scott402]

Yeah I would be cautiously optimistic. Hopefully Rachel will be included in some way. I hope Jean has some sort of role to play. I know I’m in the minority about this but I wish both Jean and Rachel still had some sort of Phoenix connection even if it was something minor.

At least soon Rachel will be on a team and I would think Leah Williams would use her very well -personality and power wise.

If they did some Jean/Rachel and Phoenix stuff I would be in heaven so not in the minority with me anyways. I know it's been pointed out the last time she was in the poster for something she didn't even show up in the issues but I think with the new team and the connection to the Phoenix blade. I think it's a good bet she'll be in. Just a question of how much and how mind controlled LOL

[MythicalChicken]

If they did some Jean/Rachel and Phoenix stuff I would be in heaven so not in the minority with me anyways. I know it's been pointed out the last time she was in the poster for something she didn't even show up in the issues but I think with the new team and the connection to the Phoenix blade. I think it's a good bet she'll be in. Just a question of how much and how mind controlled LOL

The resurrection mini made the Jean/Phoenix divorce so clear that it would overwhelm any story to change the big period Rosenberg have that relationship.

That said, Rachel consistently proves she’s handled the Phoenix better than anyone and for longer, so I’d love the Starchilde to make a return. Differentiates them both more also.

And her wielding the Phoenix blade ROCKS though I Suspect it’ll mean Korvus’ demise.

[MechaJeanix]

The resurrection mini made the Jean/Phoenix divorce so clear that it would overwhelm any story to change the big period Rosenberg have that relationship.

That said, Rachel consistently proves she’s handled the Phoenix better than anyone and for longer, so I’d love the Starchilde to make a return. Differentiates them both more also.

And her wielding the Phoenix blade ROCKS though I Suspect it’ll mean Korvus’ demise.

People say that a lot and it has become a thing. But Rachel did have some dark moments in Claremont's run. For example when she was going to kill those men that was verbally threatening to Kitty (one of the times where Kitty used a racial slur), or how about when Rachel was going to reboot the whole universe to defeat the Beyonder, or when she forcibly took the engery/soul whatever it was from Storm and the X-men during the Beyonder story, or when she was going to kill Selene and Wolverine gutted her. Rachel clearly had issues with the rushes of the Phoenix power. She was on the verge of possibly losing control.

Also, it was said somewhere that Rachel didn't have access to the full phoenix power (someone provide citation please). In Excalibur where she rescues some guys on an oil rig (or whatever it was) she states that she saw footage of Jean working and Jean had better control of the power or didn't struggle as much (not direct quote). Luckily despite some of the Excalibur craziness with the Phoenix mythos in the Jean Grey solo the Phoenix force tells Teen Jean that Jean Grey was the perfect host and vessel and that her influence and power was unmatched. Of course that is just the latest continuity. It could change the next time the Phoenix is used in a major way.

I don't say this to direct any ire toward the Rachel character, but Jean was Phoenix first. Rachel's imagery/identity as both Phoenix and Marvel Girl came from Jean. I like Rachel with some phoenix imagery but I wouldn't like it if Jean had none and Rachel had it because we went through that during the dreaded mid-80's to majority of the 90's. It also kills me that so many fans act like Jean without the phoenix is new when it so isn't.

It is funny that I've been lightly arguing on X-twitter with fans who feel that Rachel should be Phoenix and Jean should never be phoenix again. I do love Jean either way (same with Rachel) but I have a hard time buying that Rachel is some superior Phoenix host. Rachel hasn't reached the levels that Jean or Hope reached (which I think sucks because I did not like Hope as phoenix at all).

Sometimes I do sort of agree with the haters, in that the phoenix is so messed up that it is better to let it go. But the Morrison era made me believe the Phoenix can be done and can be done well with Jean. Rachel was a beautiful Phoenix and if anyone had to have it I'd rather it be with Jean or Rachel than some random character. I wish Jean had the Phoenix codename and Rachel could have the glowing eye thing, but that is just me.

[Askani5]

The resurrection mini made the Jean/Phoenix divorce so clear that it would overwhelm any story to change the big period Rosenberg have that relationship.

That said, Rachel consistently proves she’s handled the Phoenix better than anyone and for longer, so I’d love the Starchilde to make a return. Differentiates them both more also.

And her wielding the Phoenix blade ROCKS though I Suspect it’ll mean Korvus’ demise.

It ll be interesting to see how she ends up with that sword esp since Korvus was suppose to be out in space. I doubt it’ll make a difference if she has consistently proven to be the most stable host for the Phoenix. Per Editorial mandate, Jean will always be the Phoenix. It’s best she carve an identity of her own separate her mom. Hopefully, the next writer does her justice. She has so much potential. Jean can sit this crossover out and let her daughter get some shine.

[askani_son]

It ll be interesting to see how she ends up with that sword esp since Korvus was suppose to be out in space. I doubt it’ll make a difference if she has consistently proven to be the most stable host for the Phoenix. Per Editorial mandate, Jean will always be the Phoenix. It’s best she carve an identity of her own separate her mom. Hopefully, the next writer does her justice. She has so much potential. Jean can sit this crossover out and let her daughter get some shine.

Amen!!! let your daughter shine.

[askani_son]

Have you seen this? New cover for X-Factor.

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[Scott402]

Have you seen this? New cover for X-Factor.

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I hadn't seen that. Mojo!! I have a soft spot for Mojo. I find when he is involved the stories are insane but enjoyable

[Askani's Flame]

Thanks for posting here, I appreciate your thoughts as both a Jean and Rachel fan (clearly more Rachel but). Let me share my thoughts on what you've laid out. Some I agree with, some the context or comment aren't 100% right. Making two posts as I wrote a lot lol. Part 1

People say that a lot and it has become a thing. But Rachel did have some dark moments in Claremont's run. For example when she was going to kill those men that was verbally threatening to Kitty (one of the times where Kitty used a racial slur), or how about when Rachel was going to reboot the whole universe to defeat the Beyonder, or when she forcibly took the engery/soul whatever it was from Storm and the X-men during the Beyonder story, or when she was going to kill Selene and Wolverine gutted her. Rachel clearly had issues with the rushes of the Phoenix power. She was on the verge of possibly losing control.

Overall in the first Uncanny run with Rachel (184-211) showed just how emotionally hampered and unstable she could be given the trauma she was exposed to in the DoFP timeline. Your first reference is Uncanny X-Men 196, where yes Kitty did use the slur, but Rachel was not Phoenix yet nor did she have access to those powers. In context, it was after Xavier had been beaten severely at the college and his powers were hampered. Those "men" beat him, planted a psi-bomb in his office to kill him, and then were in the process of killing Kitty by strangulation (not just verbally threatening). The psi-bomb hit Rachel hard as she was using her powers and then hearing/feeling Kitty dying triggered her to go into "hound" mode for the first time. All of this is to say she was more than emotionally charged but not Phoenix. I think that your other 2 examples (as technically the Beyonder things happened in the same issue) show that after Rachel assumed the moniker(and access to) Phoenix she went to the line, and nearly crossed it, in doing things that SHE thought were just and right. Using the amped up powers from the Beyonder, she thought he needed to be destroyed. She made a faulty decision trying to save the universe from a threat, which then alienated her from her teammates for the remainder of the run. And while at that time, the rule of X-Men don't kill was in full effect, it's funny how even though Wolverine was partially just in stopping Rachel through whatever means, he also ended up killing Selene years later.

I think the part of the issue when discussing (at this moment in the analysis and timeline) "who wore it better" is that at the point of the Beyonder events across Marvel were really ramping up (February 1986), Jean was already back and alive. Readers knew that the Phoenix Force assumed her guise even though the X-Men did not know this. So the narrative around Rachel being a fully formed legacy character had begun under Claremont, but was now being undone simultaneously.

Also, it was said somewhere that Rachel didn't have access to the full phoenix power (someone provide citation please). In Excalibur where she rescues some guys on an oil rig (or whatever it was) she states that she saw footage of Jean working and Jean had better control of the power or didn't struggle as much (not direct quote)..

These are several points here to mention. The first is the issue of full control. From the time Rachel first gained access to the Phoenix Force until her death in Excalibur #50, she did not have full unfettered access to the PF. But also Rachel had a large degree of control of the Phoenix and was even able to will it into dormancy against its will. The Phoenix Force itself held back part of its true power to not corrupt Rachel as it had done itself previously. once it restored Rachel to life later, it's consciousness ceded into obscurity leaving Rachel with complete control of its power, and the knowledge of where that power comes from. The instance of the oil rig incident is after Rachel has full control, but there are two contextual issues to note: 1) the Jean in the tapes was actually the Phoenix Force and not Jean so of course it had better control BUT; 2) The explosion and issues on the rig were more rigorous on Rachel because Sienna Blaze was causing issues there and on the entire planet's ecosystem which were affecting Rachel. It required Rachel to entirely rebuild the ozone layer the next issue by herself (almost killing her from the strain) and then battling Sienna (which then lead to Sinister getting her dna).