Rachel (Grey) Summers: Phoenix II Appreciation 2020

[Askani's Flame]

Luckily despite some of the Excalibur craziness with the Phoenix mythos in the Jean Grey solo the Phoenix force tells Teen Jean that Jean Grey was the perfect host and vessel and that her influence and power was unmatched. Of course that is just the latest continuity. It could change the next time the Phoenix is used in a major way.

This point is controversial only because of the ever complicated expanding Phoenix mythos that has changed every decade almost. When Excalibur was written, it was the definitive Phoenix mythos content creator for the late 80's early 90's. Outside of Inferno and the Celestial issue with Jean, anything Phoenix related and mythos building came directly from Alan Davis in Excalibur and was solely related to Rachel. The fact that they couldn't pull the Phoenix from Rachel as they had fully bonded without having cosmic consequences. The fact that all celestial and cosmic being recognized Rachel as the heir of the Phoenix and naming her 'Starchilde'. The anti-Phoenix and Feron. Rachel being named by the Phoenix Force as the 'one true Phoenix. Now and forever'. All of that is and was canon. The issue then becomes when a new writer does their take on the Phoenix and ignores all of the canon before it. Morrison chose to ignore Excalibur and Rachel's connection to do his story. Which is fine and he can (and did) do that, but it confuses readers who knew of Rachel as Phoenix. From there the editorial mandate that Rachel 'isn't/wasn't' Phoenix started, which Claremont had to follow as he once again moved Rachel into a legacy character for Jean. It caused issues for the character as well as fans as he regressed Rachel to restart his legacy build of Jean for her. With the concept of the Phoenix also changed from when Rachel was host, they had to navigate things differently as Rachel's experience with it was fundamentally different than Jean's.

As stories continued to evolve and change, so did the Phoenix to match editorial mandates. The advent of AvX made the Phoenix Force a fundamentally destructive one, whereas before many across the MU knew it to be an ally. Because of the new mandate, and heavy reliance on contradictory canon between Claremont's DPS and Morrison's new hot take, Rachel's role as the balance and Phoenix heir was problematic to the story. Hence her being related to outlier tie-ins and not a player in the main story. The fact that the Phoenix Force said Jean was the perfect vessel isn't surprising, but it isn't the first time it's told someone they are the best host. And like you say, this could again change under the next writer. But to be honest this sentence feels hostile in the terms you use both to the character and fans as you relegate any canon and character development for Rachel and the Phoenix mythos as 'Excalibur craziness'. You don't need to do that to say, "Also once again the narrative changed in the Jean Grey solo as Jean being the perfect host". Aside from my distaste of that series in general, I accept what it says without needing to slight a character.

I don't say this to direct any ire toward the Rachel character, but Jean was Phoenix first. Rachel's imagery/identity as both Phoenix and Marvel Girl came from Jean. I like Rachel with some phoenix imagery but I wouldn't like it if Jean had none and Rachel had it because we went through that during the dreaded mid-80's to majority of the 90's. It also kills me that so many fans act like Jean without the phoenix is new when it so isn't.

Nah, you're right. Jean was Phoenix first. Fact. Rachel's identity (I argue imagery as her Phoenix look was DRAMATICALLY different from Jean's until Excalibur 65) as Phoenix and her imagery and identity came from Jean as Rachel is her legacy. Rachel, not Jeen, is the real legacy to Jean. So with any and all comic legacy characters names, costumes, and other items are borrowed from the originator as a nod to them. However our character preferences show here greatly as there was nothing "dreaded" about the mid 80's to early 90's. You may not like that Rachel was Phoenix and Jean wasn't, but that was how it was. And to be honest Jean wasn't upset by it as she really wanted nothing to do with the Phoenix until right before Rachel brought her to the future. So while I get you didn't like it, it wasn't really dreaded lol.

It is funny that I've been lightly arguing on X-twitter with fans who feel that Rachel should be Phoenix and Jean should never be phoenix again. I do love Jean either way (same with Rachel) but I have a hard time buying that Rachel is some superior Phoenix host. Rachel hasn't reached the levels that Jean or Hope reached (which I think sucks because I did not like Hope as phoenix at all).

I don't know, I feel like neither Rachel or Jean should be anywhere near that bird right now. It has become SO convoluted and it being co-opted for the larger MCU (Thor, Avengers, Iron First, Iron Man, Thanos) stories has really made it unpalatable for me. I think that given the ending of Phoenix Resurrection, that Jean to be host again initially would be a major eye roll as she JUST TOLD IT TO %$#@ OFF. Plus given what Hickman is doing I don't see Jean having it anytime soon. If he wants Rachel to have it because it makes an amazing story and character development, ok? But really Rachel needs some stable story telling after the shitshow the past two years has been. And Hope being a white crown and not Rachel is strictly editorially mandated contrivance as Rachel did SO MUCH MORE than Hope ever did as Phoenix. She bypassed Hope in that regard, but not Jean and I an totes fine with that. And yes, she (Hope) should never have been Phoenix. But that's a whole other discussion.

Sometimes I do sort of agree with the haters, in that the phoenix is so messed up that it is better to let it go. But the Morrison era made me believe the Phoenix can be done and can be done well with Jean. Rachel was a beautiful Phoenix and if anyone had to have it I'd rather it be with Jean or Rachel than some random character. I wish Jean had the Phoenix codename and Rachel could have the glowing eye thing, but that is just me.

I don't think it's a "hater' thing to say the whole Phoenix thing is a hot mess. It's true. No one should be saddled with that cosmic infection right now. And how you feel about what Morrison did for Jean and the Phoenix, some of us feel that way about what Claremont and Davis did for Rachel and Phoenix. It doesn't mean either is right or wrong, but it's how people feel. I would be ok with the whole Jean is Phoenix codename and Rachel goes by Starchilde with phoenix eye. But I don't think it's good for either character right now.

[Omega_DCD]

*Preface...I'm speaking in general, not directed to anyone in particular*

I dont think it's fair to treat Excalibur as indisputable canon that future stories have somehow defiled...when in actuality Excalibur's retcons did contradict what came before...and IMO set in motion the extreme basterdizations of the Phoenix mythos ever since

It changed Jean from being the first mortal host

Added needless characters like Feron(both of them), changed the Phoneix from being an exclusively Grey/Psychic thing (Jean and her offspring as naturally genetically gifted Phoenix wielders) to adding mystics (Feron/Necrom)...this is the start of attaching the Phoenix to any and everything (Rook'shir, fireflies, non-psychics/mystics, inanimate objects, Giraud, Thane, etc)

Gave the Phoenix Phoenix its own sentience. This was supposed to have been resolved in Excalibur #64 when it returned to its natural state, but now the gates were open and writers would later have the Phoenix acting independent of a host (Endsong, AvX, etc)

Similarly, with Necrom have a fraction of the Force and wanting Rachel's portion, it introduced the concept of portions (fragments, shards, etc) of the Phoenix inhabiting multiple hosts simultaneously (later seen with the Phoenix Five in AvX, Quentin Quire)

I just wish it could have stayed a Grey thing...or at least a very rare psychic thing...not the convoluted mess it branched out to be

[MechaJeanix]

*Preface...I'm speaking in general, not directed to anyone in particular*

I dont think it's fair to treat Excalibur as indisputable canon that future stories have somehow defiled...when in actuality Excalibur's retcons did contradict what came before...and IMO set in motion the extreme basterdizations of the Phoenix mythos ever since

It changed Jean from being the first mortal host

Added needless characters like Feron(both of them), changed the Phoneix from being an exclusively Grey/Psychic thing (Jean and her offspring as naturally genetically gifted Phoenix wielders) to adding mystics (Feron/Necrom)...this is the start of attaching the Phoenix to any and everything (Rook'shir, fireflies, non-psychics/mystics, inanimate objects, Giraud, Thane, etc)

Gave the Phoenix Phoenix its own sentience. This was supposed to have been resolved in Excalibur #64 when it returned to its natural state, but now the gates were open and writers would later have the Phoenix acting independent of a host (Endsong, AvX, etc)

Similarly, with Necrom have a fraction of the Force and wanting Rachel's portion, it introduced the concept of portions (fragments, shards, etc) of the Phoenix inhabiting multiple hosts simultaneously (later seen with the Phoenix Five in AvX, Quentin Quire)

I just wish it could have stayed a Grey thing...or at least a very rare psychic thing...not the convoluted mess it branched out to be

For some reason some fans swear by Excalibur but it was shock full of retcons and bad stories. Though fans look to it because they remember it fondly or it was what they started with when they first read x-men. We all have those biases.

Fact is the Phoenix mythology is ever changing and not everything from Excalibur’s retcons have stuck.

[CRaymond]

For some reason some fans swear by Excalibur but it was shock full of retcons and bad stories.

Blaspheme. Excalibur 52 was a glorious attempt to fix the Phoenix, but that's all it was, a fix. It didn't really examine the idea of what the Phoenix could or should be, but only consolidated the original Phoenix with the Phoenix that resided inside Rachel.

[Zelena]

*Preface...I'm speaking in general, not directed to anyone in particular*

I dont think it's fair to treat Excalibur as indisputable canon that future stories have somehow defiled...when in actuality Excalibur's retcons did contradict what came before...and IMO set in motion the extreme basterdizations of the Phoenix mythos ever since

It changed Jean from being the first mortal host

Added needless characters like Feron(both of them), changed the Phoneix from being an exclusively Grey/Psychic thing (Jean and her offspring as naturally genetically gifted Phoenix wielders) to adding mystics (Feron/Necrom)...this is the start of attaching the Phoenix to any and everything (Rook'shir, fireflies, non-psychics/mystics, inanimate objects, Giraud, Thane, etc)

Gave the Phoenix Phoenix its own sentience. This was supposed to have been resolved in Excalibur #64 when it returned to its natural state, but now the gates were open and writers would later have the Phoenix acting independent of a host (Endsong, AvX, etc)

Similarly, with Necrom have a fraction of the Force and wanting Rachel's portion, it introduced the concept of portions (fragments, shards, etc) of the Phoenix inhabiting multiple hosts simultaneously (later seen with the Phoenix Five in AvX, Quentin Quire)

I just wish it could have stayed a Grey thing...or at least a very rare psychic thing...not the convoluted mess it branched out to be

I was fine with the way it was explained, it sounded logical.

Rachel still had the Phoenix Force, but it wasn't an unlimited power anymore.

The fact that it came back to its naturel state was satisfying too…

Also, it was normal that the Phoenix Force existed before Jean and had an history, it is a cosmic force after all.

[CRaymond]

I guess I'm spoiled for understanding completely the Morrisonian logic of the Phoenix as the immune system of the multiverse, accessible through the Crown chakra. Only psychics could access Phoenix, and Jean was the loudest at the time. Most psychics focus on navel-focused emotions or solar plexus personas, and not crown stuff.

[Omega_DCD]

Yes the Phoenix Force existed before Jean...but as a force, inert...Jean tapping into this force and it gaining awareness of itself through Jean's keen senses and empathy was supposed to be a first time thing...

Adding Feron and Fong-Ji and Rook'shir (especially this, why couldn't the Shi'ar warn Jean and Xavier of the possibility of a Dark Phoenix?)...it just ruins things

Speaking of retcons, thanks to Excalibur #52, it's fair to say that from the moment Rachel crossed over to 616 Earth, she hosted the Phoenix (unknowingly) and was subconsciously tapping into it to various degrees, which is what Selene and the Beyonder sensed within her

[Askani's Flame]

*Preface...I'm speaking in general, not directed to anyone in particular*

I dont think it's fair to treat Excalibur as indisputable canon that future stories have somehow defiled...when in actuality Excalibur's retcons did contradict what came before...and IMO set in motion the extreme basterdizations of the Phoenix mythos ever since

It changed Jean from being the first mortal host

Added needless characters like Feron(both of them), changed the Phoneix from being an exclusively Grey/Psychic thing (Jean and her offspring as naturally genetically gifted Phoenix wielders) to adding mystics (Feron/Necrom)...this is the start of attaching the Phoenix to any and everything (Rook'shir, fireflies, non-psychics/mystics, inanimate objects, Giraud, Thane, etc)

Gave the Phoenix Phoenix its own sentience. This was supposed to have been resolved in Excalibur #64 when it returned to its natural state, but now the gates were open and writers would later have the Phoenix acting independent of a host (Endsong, AvX, etc)

Similarly, with Necrom have a fraction of the Force and wanting Rachel's portion, it introduced the concept of portions (fragments, shards, etc) of the Phoenix inhabiting multiple hosts simultaneously (later seen with the Phoenix Five in AvX, Quentin Quire)

I just wish it could have stayed a Grey thing...or at least a very rare psychic thing...not the convoluted mess it branched out to be

I hear you and don't disagree fully (even if you aren't addressing me specifically) Personally it wasn't indisputable, but was the canon. Canon changes. But my issue was the changes or improvements ignored everything that came before rather than explain and build/edit. That was my biggest issue, as Rachel was erased from being a host by most of the MU until reminded (even though they all knew she was Phoenix....), to make new stories.

Portion-wise it was Inferno / the resurrection of Jean Grey that introduced the concept of portions as right out the gate it says that Maddie has a portion of the PF while Rachel had most of the rest. It definitely didn't help that Necrom built upon that further, but the idea of splitting or fragmenting came from the bastardization of Madelyne Pryor. And then again a portion or echo was first introduced in the "X-Men: Spotlight on the Starjammers #2) in 1990 when Xavier was given an echo of the Phoenix Force and became the Bald Phoenix temporarily. Excalibur definitely exacerbated the use and amount of other hosts but didn't start that fire, so to speak. But I hadn't thought about Ncerom/Feron in that way before as previously the explained history of the Phoenix made room for this.

For some reason some fans swear by Excalibur but it was shock full of retcons and bad stories. Though fans look to it because they remember it fondly or it was what they started with when they first read x-men. We all have those biases.

Fact is the Phoenix mythology is ever changing and not everything from Excalibur’s retcons have stuck.

True and true. And yes, some didn't need to stick. But my bias is moreso that in ignoring some of the glaring issues those stories that built on the mythos Rachel's history was erased/ignored to make things work differently.

[QUOTE=Omega_DCD;4867903]Speaking of retcons, thanks to Excalibur #52, it's fair to say that from the moment Rachel crossed over to 616 Earth, she hosted the Phoenix (unknowingly) and was subconsciously tapping into it to various degrees, which is what Selene and the Beyonder sensed within her[/QOUTE]

Holy cow I never think I thought of it that way.

[martybarnes]

Baldeón posted a wip of Rachel on ig
https://www.instagram.com/p/B9R23ouq...d=xhlp34k6u75s

[Devaishwarya]

I will never forgive Baldeon for the atrocity done to Storm in her 2014 solo.
Sure...his style might have evolved and improved since then but...looking at Jean-Paul and Kyle's faces in the uncoloured prevs...I don't think it has, or not by very much.

[phoenixzero23]

Baldeón posted a wip of Rachel on ig
https://www.instagram.com/p/B9R23ouq...d=xhlp34k6u75s

She is looking great so far

[Askani's Flame]

She is looking great so far

Agreed, I'm super excited about X-Factor.

[MarvelMaster616]

Rachel fans should check out Excalibur today. I won't spoil it, but I will say that Rachel showed up at the end and now she has an adorable new pet.

[phoenixzero23]

Rachel fans should check out Excalibur today. I won't spoil it, but I will say that Rachel showed up at the end and now she has an adorable new pet.

It was beautiful!!
cute2.jpg
Also German Peralta showed some of his desings for Cable and some were inspired on Rachel/Jean
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ESMjJ23W4AAj0GH.jpg

[CRaymond]

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No scars. I'm into it.