Rachel (Grey) Summers: Phoenix II Appreciation 2020

[Askani's Flame]

That raises an interesting thought. If Destiny can not be brought back because of her pre cog abilities, Does Rachel pose a threat? Does her chronoskim abilities pose a threat?

Also regarding the Jean and Rachel talk. Yes we are not asking for Jean to breastfeed Rachel we are askign for a close relationship like they seem to have with Nathan on panel. I was kind of guilty of assuming things take place of panel but we shouldn't have to. Rachel as a character has been involved in the X-Men mythos for a long time now and all we ask is that she be given respect for her connections to it.

Technically many of the telepaths are also precogs in some form. Betsy is certainly one but she's allowed on the island. I would say that Rachel in some form poses a threat if she were allowed in some of the inner sanctum areas if she picked up on something Moira related for a reason. But Destiny issued a direct threat to Moira, so she is the largest problem for Moira.

I've bolded the statement I think is crucial. Not necessarily you being guilty of something (lol) but that we as readers shouldn't have to assume that things are happening off panel if we and Marvel are invested in the relationships of these characters. And you're 100% correct, that as a character that was created about 40 years ago Rachel should be allowed to interact on panel with those she shares a family connection with ease, not being relegated to things happening off panel for character development. I'm of the mindset that if it didn't happen on panel or mentioned specifically it happened off panel, then it didn't happen.

[Scott402]

Technically many of the telepaths are also precogs in some form. Betsy is certainly one but she's allowed on the island. I would say that Rachel in some form poses a threat if she were allowed in some of the inner sanctum areas if she picked up on something Moira related for a reason. But Destiny issued a direct threat to Moira, so she is the largest problem for Moira.

I've bolded the statement I think is crucial. Not necessarily you being guilty of something (lol) but that we as readers shouldn't have to assume that things are happening off panel if we and Marvel are invested in the relationships of these characters. And you're 100% correct, that as a character that was created about 40 years ago Rachel should be allowed to interact on panel with those she shares a family connection with ease, not being relegated to things happening off panel for character development. I'm of the mindset that if it didn't happen on panel or mentioned specifically it happened off panel, then it didn't happen.

Her ability is unique though I hadn't really thought of it but I think it's an interesting thought. Also I am not sure if I have seen it here or elsewhere but I have heard that some people wonder if Rachel can be brought back like the others if she were to die. Makes me wonder if Charles, Magnus and Moira would allow it.

I think it was you who pointed that out to me. It makes perfect sense, we can't and shouldn't have to assume certain things happen off page. I think it's a real blind spot for whoever has been writing the X-Men through the years. I think we on here are a good example of just how well received it would be to see the two of them interacting more. That Red Annual is a book I still go back to and read. It was everything!

[Askani's Flame]

Her ability is unique though I hadn't really thought of it but I think it's an interesting thought. Also I am not sure if I have seen it here or elsewhere but I have heard that some people wonder if Rachel can be brought back like the others if she were to die. Makes me wonder if Charles, Magnus and Moira would allow it.

I think it was you who pointed that out to me. It makes perfect sense, we can't and shouldn't have to assume certain things happen off page. I think it's a real blind spot for whoever has been writing the X-Men through the years. I think we on here are a good example of just how well received it would be to see the two of them interacting more. That Red Annual is a book I still go back to and read. It was everything!

I think that Rachel is prominent enough, and they have her dna and mind, that they would bring her back. Same goes for Bishop. But you're right her chronoskimming is unique (as until recently ignored or removed) and she could potentially pull info on Moira if something came up. It would be problematic for her if she picked up something, but I can only imagine the outrage that would incur if she were killed and Charles decided she needed to stay dead to hide Moira.

Aw, I'm happy to hear I reached someone in my Rachel Rants lol. I'd go further and say the writers have purposely been told to make them not interact, or writers have made an active choice to keep her and Jean apart. When Jean was brought back to life to create X-Factor, Claremont and the X-Office had a dilemma: (aside from Maddie existing) they had Rachel as an active X-Man, host to the Phoenix, and Jean's legacy character which would be difficult to hide from Jean. So solution, ship her out. So Rachel went to the Mojoverse. Rachel and the Phoenix were a problem for the X-Office so she was kept in Excalibur or in the multiverse unless Claremont wrote her in something. Then when she came back from the future she was going to likely come around and back to the X-fold, but Claremont reset all her development to make her the "Kitty", so she whined about Jean. Bendis really disliked the character so he purposely kept Rachel away from Jeen and Tyke. X-Men Red was great, but Gold and Extermination tarnished those moments. And now they live (or lived) in the same space but don't interact? Emma has been more influential and interacted more with Rachel than Jean has on panel.

[WallStreeter]

That’s true but Rachel’s storyline has always about wanting to have a relationship with her family esp her mother. Somehow Jean is often dead whenever she gets screen time so it’s kinda weird they wouldn’t have more panel interaction whenever they are in the same spaces. If the previous writers didn’t make such a huge of deal of missing her mom and wanting a relationship with her, it wouldn’t have been a big deal. It’s just baffling that Jean is often portrayed as the heart of the x-men but Emma( as bitchy/self absorbed as she is portrayed) is way closer and put more effort with her “clone” daugher than with Jean and her time displaced daughter. Over the years, I’ve come to accept that characters are at the mercy of whoever the writer is and how closely or loosely they want to acknowledge the character’s history. It’s only recently a writer place an emphasis to feature Rachel with her family.

Though Emma loves her clone daughters she has a separate life from them, and they have separate lives from her.

Obviously they do have a relationship with each other as we see them having family dinners to together.

But Rachel is a big sister/adult, you cannot have her crying after her mother when she has a young brother who would seem more mature and stable. I think kid Cable being the baby of the family changes everything.

[Havok83]

Though Emma loves her clone daughters she has a separate life from them, and they have separate lives from her.

Obviously they do have a relationship with each other as we see them having family dinners to together.

But Rachel is a big sister/adult, you cannot have her crying after her mother when she has a young brother who would seem more mature and stable. I think kid Cable being the baby of the family changes everything.

You are the only one insinuating that. No one wants Rachel to act like a petulant child when it comes to Jean

[jwatson]

Her ability is unique though I hadn't really thought of it but I think it's an interesting thought. Also I am not sure if I have seen it here or elsewhere but I have heard that some people wonder if Rachel can be brought back like the others if she were to die. Makes me wonder if Charles, Magnus and Moira would allow it.

I think it was you who pointed that out to me. It makes perfect sense, we can't and shouldn't have to assume certain things happen off page. I think it's a real blind spot for whoever has been writing the X-Men through the years. I think we on here are a good example of just how well received it would be to see the two of them interacting more. That Red Annual is a book I still go back to and read. It was everything!

I think Rachel can be brought back because Rachel for all intents and purposes is from the 616 and what would have been it's true future had she not gone back and changed and and that future is gone. At least that's how i view it. But claremont went out of his way to say there is only one Rachel in all existence when he did that reboot when he returned in the 2000s. So imo there is no reason that rachel should not be able to resurrected she is not an alternate in anyway.

[jwatson]

You are the only one insinuating that. No one wants Rachel to act like a petulant child when it comes to Jean

For all intents and purposes i can see Jean/Rachel easily enjoying spending time together and having telepathic conversations etc, especially when they talk about how mutants powers are meant to commune. I think most people who try to pull the hand holding card are those trying or feeling there is a competition there that shouldn't be. personally i would love to see jean helping nathan and rachel refine their telepathic powers. The need obviously exists. We have seen emma say rachel has raw power but lack training and recently scott mentioning Cables lack of training. I think it would be fun to see here and there. IT doesn't have to be a huge plot point but consistency goes a long way.

[Cerridwen]

They're probably interacting on the astral plane instead.

[Scott402]

I think that Rachel is prominent enough, and they have her dna and mind, that they would bring her back. Same goes for Bishop. But you're right her chronoskimming is unique (as until recently ignored or removed) and she could potentially pull info on Moira if something came up. It would be problematic for her if she picked up something, but I can only imagine the outrage that would incur if she were killed and Charles decided she needed to stay dead to hide Moira.

Aw, I'm happy to hear I reached someone in my Rachel Rants lol. I'd go further and say the writers have purposely been told to make them not interact, or writers have made an active choice to keep her and Jean apart. When Jean was brought back to life to create X-Factor, Claremont and the X-Office had a dilemma: (aside from Maddie existing) they had Rachel as an active X-Man, host to the Phoenix, and Jean's legacy character which would be difficult to hide from Jean. So solution, ship her out. So Rachel went to the Mojoverse. Rachel and the Phoenix were a problem for the X-Office so she was kept in Excalibur or in the multiverse unless Claremont wrote her in something. Then when she came back from the future she was going to likely come around and back to the X-fold, but Claremont reset all her development to make her the "Kitty", so she whined about Jean. Bendis really disliked the character so he purposely kept Rachel away from Jeen and Tyke. X-Men Red was great, but Gold and Extermination tarnished those moments. And now they live (or lived) in the same space but don't interact? Emma has been more influential and interacted more with Rachel than Jean has on panel.

Based on how they all rushed to save her from Ahab I don't think there will be such a backlash from teh characters or even the readers if they decided not to bring her back

LOL yeah, Rachel Rants sounds like a good blog or podcast lol. I think it's pretty easy to determine due to a succession of writers and heads of teh X-Men they never wanted Rachel and Jean to interreact wither it be for creative ideas or whatever. It's terrible because to me the X-Men are family, though I am not a fan of teh current run there is an emphasis on family connections but there's been no one on one with Jean and Rachel and that's either at terrible oversight or again a choice that has been made.

Again I don't think any of us are asking for Jean to coddle Rachel but to just show some interest at least.

[Scott402]

They're probably interacting on the astral plane instead.

Again that's off panel and we shouldn't have to assume that

[Havok83]

I just found this cool gif of Rachel vs Jean

[Havok83]

Jean mentions in today's Cable that she's going to gather of team of telepaths to breach Otherworld. If Rachel isnt selected to be on her team, you know Marvel aint sh-t

[Askani's Flame]

Jean mentions in today's Cable that she's going to gather of team of telepaths to breach Otherworld. If Rachel isnt selected to be on her team, you know Marvel aint sh-t

I'm not holding my breath. The last most of the telepaths were used for something in this new era Rachel was excluded but the Shadow King was there. Given Rachel's experience in the Otherworld during Excalibur and with Saturnyne ONE WOULD THINK it would be wise to bring her in. It will solidify my belief that they are intentionally not allowing them to interact, which makes sense as to why she was shipped to the Boneyard so the remainder of the family can be a unit. 616 or bust, right?

[Scott402]

I'm not holding my breath. The last most of the telepaths were used for something in this new era Rachel was excluded but the Shadow King was there. Given Rachel's experience in the Otherworld during Excalibur and with Saturnyne ONE WOULD THINK it would be wise to bring her in. It will solidify my belief that they are intentionally not allowing them to interact, which makes sense as to why she was shipped to the Boneyard so the remainder of the family can be a unit. 616 or bust, right?

I enjoyed todays Cable but the whole "Leave it to the telepath in the family" was a perfect place for either Jean or Cable to mention that Rachel is a telepath too. Just one line that's all. Yet again let down though.

She wont be apart of it, if she is it'll be a background in the distance were you will have to squint to make out that it's Rachel there.

[Phoenixx9]

I just found this cool gif of Rachel vs Jean

That is cool!