Amora: The Enchantress Appreciation 2020

[Charlie_1981]

Has Kurt Busiek ever done anything with Amora before? I can't remember if she popped up in his Avengers run in the late 90s. I know Morgan le Fay had a heavy role in the opening arc so he's clearly got talent dealing with powerful sorceresses. A redemption would be nice for Amora since all the major villains these days have basically been reformed to anti-hero status at least.

I avoid Marvel interactions on social media altogether. And then the writers and editors have the audacity to claim that WE bullied them off.

I've never really read DC and I only watched the first seasons of Flash, Supergirl, and Arrow and then I stopped after that so I didn't think much of Stargirl. I might have to reconsider now with all the praise for it. I honestly don't know much about the character either besides her appearance.

Even a character like Black Widow only got a boost from the MCU. I think they gave Scarlet Witch more prominence because they planned on using her in the MCU otherwise she was absent for about a decade as well. Wasp was given a boost in the 80s but then she kinda faded away until she was killed off and brought back again but focus on her is divided now because of the new Wasp. Even Mary Jane was basically shunted off after One More Day and only in the last few years have the writers felt comfortable bringing her back. Sif I think only got a brief boost because of the MCU as well. I don't remember if they ever explained why they picked Jane out of all the female characters to be Thor but I'm guessing they wanted a human character as they felt another Asgardian wouldn't be as relatable.

That's why I like Amora as well because all the other female Asgardians were always warriors. It makes her stand out especially since Karnilla is the other exception and she's really not that popular.

- I can't remember, the only thing I remember was in a Defenders book in 2001 that he wrote or co-wrote with Erik Larsen in which Lorelei appeared (she was supposed to be dead at the time and it was strange to see her there without any kind of explanation of why, in addition to facing Pluto the Olympic god of death in almost equal conditions when Lorelei was neither as strong nor as powerful, at least it has never been known how she was), after that we never returned to know about her until the Loki series in which she was a thief and spent time trying to improve her life, there were not many explanations about it either.
I think these days, if Busiek was able to do a limited series or an ongoing about the Enchantress, he would probably explain these things as coherently as possible and try to fit the pieces of a puzzle that is so undone.
So I think and have commented on the whole idea about Sylvie Lushton, because I think she is a key player in all of this and also the identity of the parents (especially their mother) of Amora and Lorelei, so many incomprehensible things could be explained about it. and it would make sense if it were done right.

- I have decided that I will not do it anymore, unless they show more respect to the fans, I do not want or want to be answered badly or be humiliated, who deserves respect, will have it, who does not, obviously not.

- I have been reading DC since the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Marvel, maybe more time, there is a book that I really liked especially in the 90s and that was incredible, Starman by James Robinson, I loved the whole theme of the legacy of a hero and everything that, it made me think many times on the subject of the Enchantress, her family, her sister, Sylvie (she, last times since Dark Reign)... and how to connect all that in some way if any writer from Marvel wanted to tell her story. If you watch the Stargirl series, you will not regret it, I am really enjoying it and it helps me get to know the character better when I read some recent comics that I read.

- The truth is that you are right in all that you say, it is sad how good characters, they do not know exactly what to do with them and that of removing others from the sleeve to reduce the popularity of the originals for reasons of diversity or other issues instead of doing that something happens naturally is never good, things work when there are good stories to tell, forcing things only makes you stay away from it.

- That's true, I also think so, Karnilla works whenever they put Balder in the middle (another character who lately has been as sidelined when he's as important as Thor and Loki). Amora really is a great character and I want them to stop treating her so badly, it is absurd and ridiculous to do the things they have done with her for years, almost decades.

[Phoenixx9]

I really like Karnilla!

While I do not mind her being in the background, she has been severely underused//FORGOTTEN for 30 years now!!

Karnilla has more to offer than a love story around Balder. Karnilla is one of the foremost magic-wielders of Asgard!

[juan678]

Thor 5 Preview (not) cameo Amora

[whitecrown]

Thor 5 Preview (not) cameo Amora

I like that she's considered a big bad like Annihilus, Doom, Apocalypse, Mephisto, etc. The only female character represented there.

[whitecrown]

- I can't remember, the only thing I remember was in a Defenders book in 2001 that he wrote or co-wrote with Erik Larsen in which Lorelei appeared (she was supposed to be dead at the time and it was strange to see her there without any kind of explanation of why, in addition to facing Pluto the Olympic god of death in almost equal conditions when Lorelei was neither as strong nor as powerful, at least it has never been known how she was), after that we never returned to know about her until the Loki series in which she was a thief and spent time trying to improve her life, there were not many explanations about it either.
I think these days, if Busiek was able to do a limited series or an ongoing about the Enchantress, he would probably explain these things as coherently as possible and try to fit the pieces of a puzzle that is so undone.
So I think and have commented on the whole idea about Sylvie Lushton, because I think she is a key player in all of this and also the identity of the parents (especially their mother) of Amora and Lorelei, so many incomprehensible things could be explained about it. and it would make sense if it were done right.

- I have decided that I will not do it anymore, unless they show more respect to the fans, I do not want or want to be answered badly or be humiliated, who deserves respect, will have it, who does not, obviously not.

- I have been reading DC since the Crisis on Infinite Earths, Marvel, maybe more time, there is a book that I really liked especially in the 90s and that was incredible, Starman by James Robinson, I loved the whole theme of the legacy of a hero and everything that, it made me think many times on the subject of the Enchantress, her family, her sister, Sylvie (she, last times since Dark Reign)... and how to connect all that in some way if any writer from Marvel wanted to tell her story. If you watch the Stargirl series, you will not regret it, I am really enjoying it and it helps me get to know the character better when I read some recent comics that I read.

- The truth is that you are right in all that you say, it is sad how good characters, they do not know exactly what to do with them and that of removing others from the sleeve to reduce the popularity of the originals for reasons of diversity or other issues instead of doing that something happens naturally is never good, things work when there are good stories to tell, forcing things only makes you stay away from it.

- That's true, I also think so, Karnilla works whenever they put Balder in the middle (another character who lately has been as sidelined when he's as important as Thor and Loki). Amora really is a great character and I want them to stop treating her so badly, it is absurd and ridiculous to do the things they have done with her for years, almost decades.

Busiek has always been a pro about continuity so I'm sure if given the chance, he could fully explain Lorelei's return and also establish an origin for her and Amora while connecting to Sylvie Lushton. As you said, Sylvie could be made into their mother and explain why the character exists on her own.

I think it's probably best to stop interacting with Marvel even if they haven't had even a drop of decency to answer you.

I'll have to check out Stargirl for sure then. That's neat that you felt she had parallels to Amora and her family.

And frankly most of the abuse that Marvel characters get are typically female characters. They are the ones who are thrown aside or killed off whenever writers see no use for them. There's a reason that even when Jane Foster became Thor, Thor Odinson still was a high-profile character even without the hammer. Or why Loki has never been sidelined and always kept at the forefront unlike Amora.

Balder I feel has also been sidelined in part because he lacks a presence in the MCU. I think I heard he was originally planned to have a role but the film ended up giving him too much screentime that it took away from Thor so he was cut.

[Charlie_1981]

Busiek has always been a pro about continuity so I'm sure if given the chance, he could fully explain Lorelei's return and also establish an origin for her and Amora while connecting to Sylvie Lushton. As you said, Sylvie could be made into their mother and explain why the character exists on her own.

Right, that's why I always love his stories, I find it hard to believe how some writers love the story of some characters and a universe and it shows that they do it because they like it and others directly do what they want regardless of anything or turn some characters that are who they are in a way that they have never been. Maybe I am from a special minority, but although Sylvie Lushton has appeared so little, she is a character that I like and really connecting her with the original Enchantress that we know I think it would be a step in the right direction. The Lorelei thing too, when Walt Simonson created the character, I began to imagine that at some point we would know Amora's story for the first time, but that stayed there, just like the death of the Executioner and the fact that Amora started a relationship with Heimdall, during the Simonson run , Amora was never a villain and I liked that.

I think it's probably best to stop interacting with Marvel even if they haven't had even a drop of decency to answer you.

It is what I already do, last year I spent month to month trying to get someone to answer but I only received silence or a There are no plans for her once or twice that someone came to tell me something.

I'll have to check out Stargirl for sure then. That's neat that you felt she had parallels to Amora and her family.

Actually, I was thinking more about the whole history of the different Starman of the DC Universe and since James Robinson connected everything in his book in the 90s, in Marvel they could do something similar with the Enchantress, including someone like Morgan Le Fay (the Enchantress from Camelot) and starting a cycle that would start with Sylvie in the present and would reach the past from Amora and Lorelei's mother and how the legends / rumors about the name of the Enchantress begin in an Asgard past, passing throught who will be Future Enchantress.

And frankly most of the abuse that Marvel characters get are typically female characters. They are the ones who are thrown aside or killed off whenever writers see no use for them. There's a reason that even when Jane Foster became Thor, Thor Odinson still was a high-profile character even without the hammer. Or why Loki has never been sidelined and always kept at the forefront unlike Amora.

People did not seem to see it that way when I read opinions about it, but really few female characters, are treated with respect and that is sad, even those who start strong and for some reason are cornered and half-forgotten over time or with a change of personality that has nothing to do with what they were, I never liked to see Storm married to the Black Panther.

Balder I feel has also been sidelined in part because he lacks a presence in the MCU. I think I heard he was originally planned to have a role but the film ended up giving him too much screentime that it took away from Thor so he was cut.

Yes, that is really sad, I had also heard / read some of that at the time.

[Charlie_1981]

I like that she's considered a big bad like Annihilus, Doom, Apocalypse, Mephisto, etc. The only female character represented there.

I agree

[whitecrown]

Right, that's why I always love his stories, I find it hard to believe how some writers love the story of some characters and a universe and it shows that they do it because they like it and others directly do what they want regardless of anything or turn some characters that are who they are in a way that they have never been. Maybe I am from a special minority, but although Sylvie Lushton has appeared so little, she is a character that I like and really connecting her with the original Enchantress that we know I think it would be a step in the right direction. The Lorelei thing too, when Walt Simonson created the character, I began to imagine that at some point we would know Amora's story for the first time, but that stayed there, just like the death of the Executioner and the fact that Amora started a relationship with Heimdall, during the Simonson run , Amora was never a villain and I liked that.



It is what I already do, last year I spent month to month trying to get someone to answer but I only received silence or a There are no plans for her once or twice that someone came to tell me something.



Actually, I was thinking more about the whole history of the different Starman of the DC Universe and since James Robinson connected everything in his book in the 90s, in Marvel they could do something similar with the Enchantress, including someone like Morgan Le Fay (the Enchantress from Camelot) and starting a cycle that would start with Sylvie in the present and would reach the past from Amora and Lorelei's mother and how the legends / rumors about the name of the Enchantress begin in an Asgard past, passing throught who will be Future Enchantress.



People did not seem to see it that way when I read opinions about it, but really few female characters, are treated with respect and that is sad, even those who start strong and for some reason are cornered and half-forgotten over time or with a change of personality that has nothing to do with what they were, I never liked to see Storm married to the Black Panther.



Yes, that is really sad, I had also heard / read some of that at the time.

Yes, I hate those writers who do whatever they want without regard to continuity or previous characterization. How they depict some characters is like they weren't the same character at all. And while this does occur to male characters as well, it's another case where I feel female characters tend to get the brunt of this bad writing and mischaracterization. Has Amora and Heimdall's relationship ever been brought up again after Simonson? I feel like it was a mistake not to do more with Amora's romatnic relationship.

At least they answered somewhat by saying they have no plans, since usually they don't even say that.

Oh I see what you mean now. Yes, taht is a good idea especially since they've established reincarnations for Asgaridan characters before and how the different mythological lores are connected so it wouldn't be out of place for Morgana Le Fay to be connected to Amora and her family somehow. If you've ever read Rick Riordan's Percy Jackson series, it's a similar concept where all the mythological gods know about each other's presence and exist in the same world. And the Roman ones are essentially different personalities of the Greek ones.

The Storm/Black Panther wedding essentially wrote her out of the X-Men comics for years and even after she returned, she was nothing more than wallpaper. That's typical for a lot of female characters especially love interests of major male characters like Mary Jane Watson and Jean Grey.

The exclusion of Balder actually makes me think it is more odd that out of all the major Asgardian characters, only Amora was never really planned for the movies.

[Charlie_1981]

Yes, I hate those writers who do whatever they want without regard to continuity or previous characterization. How they depict some characters is like they weren't the same character at all. And while this does occur to male characters as well, it's another case where I feel female characters tend to get the brunt of this bad writing and mischaracterization. Has Amora and Heimdall's relationship ever been brought up again after Simonson? I feel like it was a mistake not to do more with Amora's romatnic relationship.

That is a general problem, even in DC it happens (perhaps a little more frequently than Marvel), each writer gives his vision, some have more respect than others for the characters and get them to evolve from how those characters used to be naturally In other cases it is very forced and they damage history.

Yes, DeFalco did it, but as I have said on some occasions, that run was like a roller coaster ride in which Amora went from villain to ally in a somewhat confusing way. And I agree, it was a mistake not to continue with that, I think it was good to see Amora start a path of redemption after the death of her partner, just as it would be a mistake not to see Lorelei and Sigurd right now.

At least they answered somewhat by saying they have no plans, since usually they don't even say that.

Yes, but I hear it so many times that you get to a point where you get depressed.

Oh I see what you mean now. Yes, taht is a good idea especially since they've established reincarnations for Asgaridan characters before and how the different mythological lores are connected so it wouldn't be out of place for Morgana Le Fay to be connected to Amora and her family somehow. If you've ever read Rick Riordan's Percy Jackson series, it's a similar concept where all the mythological gods know about each other's presence and exist in the same world. And the Roman ones are essentially different personalities of the Greek ones.

Thanks, it's something that I've been thinking about for a long time and I think it would be interesting, what Fraction did in those one-shots he did before his Thor run seemed like a good idea at first, but seeing them and reading them now, you have another vision.

I have heard of those books, but I have never read them, they seem really interesting, I will try to look at them if I find them.

The Storm/Black Panther wedding essentially wrote her out of the X-Men comics for years and even after she returned, she was nothing more than wallpaper. That's typical for a lot of female characters especially love interests of major male characters like Mary Jane Watson and Jean Grey.

Yeah, I agree, thought at least something was and is different with Susan Richards (Invisible Woman) and I think this was thanks to Byrne who makes her the strongest one of the Fantastic Four by far.

The exclusion of Balder actually makes me think it is more odd that out of all the major Asgardian characters, only Amora was never really planned for the movies.

I, that is something that I find incomprehensible of why they do not want to do anything with Amora, not even a mention, and more with the topic that we have already talked about Lorelei in a chapter of the first season of the Agents of SHIELD, about Balder, maybe It may be even more surreal when it is the third in question of the confrontation of Thor and Loki.

[whitecrown]

That is a general problem, even in DC it happens (perhaps a little more frequently than Marvel), each writer gives his vision, some have more respect than others for the characters and get them to evolve from how those characters used to be naturally In other cases it is very forced and they damage history.

Yes, DeFalco did it, but as I have said on some occasions, that run was like a roller coaster ride in which Amora went from villain to ally in a somewhat confusing way. And I agree, it was a mistake not to continue with that, I think it was good to see Amora start a path of redemption after the death of her partner, just as it would be a mistake not to see Lorelei and Sigurd right now.



Yes, but I hear it so many times that you get to a point where you get depressed.



Thanks, it's something that I've been thinking about for a long time and I think it would be interesting, what Fraction did in those one-shots he did before his Thor run seemed like a good idea at first, but seeing them and reading them now, you have another vision.

I have heard of those books, but I have never read them, they seem really interesting, I will try to look at them if I find them.



Yeah, I agree, thought at least something was and is different with Susan Richards (Invisible Woman) and I think this was thanks to Byrne who makes her the strongest one of the Fantastic Four by far.



I, that is something that I find incomprehensible of why they do not want to do anything with Amora, not even a mention, and more with the topic that we have already talked about Lorelei in a chapter of the first season of the Agents of SHIELD, about Balder, maybe It may be even more surreal when it is the third in question of the confrontation of Thor and Loki.

I don't follow DC but I've heard the stories from fans and it does seem like they've had it way worse when it comes to OOC writing compared to Marvel especially with all the retcons and new continuities. Wonder Woman comes to mind since they completely changed her origin for 52.

Oh yes, DeFalco. I'm glad somebody cared enough about the character to continue her storyline even if he did muddle it up a bit. Those days were still more fruitful for Amora than what we have now so I'd take them anyday.

That's unfortunate and also 100% understandable. I felt the same way back when they used to tease Jean's return for more than 10 years and then would always say "we have no plans for her." Marvel loves to play this game and they act like a cat rolling a ball of yarn to us the fans only to take the yarn away just as we reach for it.

One-shots would be great or even another Journey Into Mystery series that focuses on obscure Asgardian characters, maybe changing the main character with every arc. This way it could weave a story with a bunch of characters who have not gotten their due in a long time.

Disney+ is making a new film/TV series based on those books although it'll probably be a few years before they come out since they've just started writing and have not cast anyone yet. They have Norse stories as well although I have not read those books yet but I think Thor has a major role.

Yes, Byrne helped revamp Sue and She-Hulk. Claremont helped boost Storm, Jean, Carol Danvers, and Jessica Drew/Spider-Woman and a bunch of other X-Women. I forgot who but it was either Claremont or it was Byrne who also boosted Wasp's powers and made her more formidable. Byrne worked on Scarlet Witch as well but frankly it's because of him that she developed a lot of problematic elements that Bendis used against her later on.

When Lorelei appeared in Agents of SHIELD, I thought for certain that this meant Amora would appear in the next Thor film. When Hela was confirmed, I thought Amora would appear as her helper alongside Executioner, before betraying her to help Thor to stop Ragnarok and the destruction of Asgard. None of the above ever happened. Three films of Thor and Loki but nothing for Amora. That is why I hope that a new film with a new narrative with Jane Foster will allow a new female villain like Amora to appear.

[Kurt Busiek]

Busiek has always been a pro about continuity so I'm sure if given the chance, he could fully explain Lorelei's return

Just to toss it in --

The way she was able to return is that, as seen in AVENGERS a little earlier, the Rainbow Bridge had been shattered and the pieces fallen throughout the Nine Worlds, including Hel. The pieces served as portals, which let various creatures of Norse legend (and Thor continuity) come to Earth, where many of them were controlled by Morgan le Fay and made to attack Avengers.

So during that period, people in the lands of the dead could, if they found a shard, just walk on through it and be back in the land of the living.

That's what Lorelei did.

As I recall, someone -- I forget who -- thought it was too much exposition to fit into the story we were telling, and figured people would remember it from AVENGERS. And we could explain it later when we brought Lorelei back again. Which, as it turns out, we never did.

kdb

[Charlie_1981]

I don't follow DC but I've heard the stories from fans and it does seem like they've had it way worse when it comes to OOC writing compared to Marvel especially with all the retcons and new continuities. Wonder Woman comes to mind since they completely changed her origin for 52.

- Right, or when Hal Jordan went bad, the return of Barry Allen, the sudden disappearance of Wally West, All the Crisis ... so many things.

Oh yes, DeFalco. I'm glad somebody cared enough about the character to continue her storyline even if he did muddle it up a bit. Those days were still more fruitful for Amora than what we have now so I'd take them anyday.

- I also think the same, although I do not know what would have happened if Amora had married Heimdall in the end, all that was fine but apparently at Marvel considered it necessary to Amora return to the villain life again for the sake of it, I did not see it so and I did not like it and if they did, did it well, but it was not, Warren Ellis had a relative continuity, the writer who came later (Bill Mesner-Loebs) after Ellis when he made his 4 issues, did not seem especially interested in the book he wrote and seen as seen by the characters and was just one mess behind the other and no development of anything (after all the Thor book was going to be canceled by the entire Onslaught saga and later Heroes Reborn though it had some continuity with Journey Into Mystery and the fact that De Falco wrote something with the Asgardians again.)

That's unfortunate and also 100% understandable. I felt the same way back when they used to tease Jean's return for more than 10 years and then would always say "we have no plans for her." Marvel loves to play this game and they act like a cat rolling a ball of yarn to us the fans only to take the yarn away just as we reach for it.

- Right, and they continue the same, in those things they never change.

One-shots would be great or even another Journey Into Mystery series that focuses on obscure Asgardian characters, maybe changing the main character with every arc. This way it could weave a story with a bunch of characters who have not gotten their due in a long time.

- The Journey Into Mystery thing, I would especially like if they had both sisters as main characters or separately, even I would have no problem seeing such a book like that, but explaining the adventures of Sylvie Lushton by the Ten Realms until her return to Earth and a meeting again with Amora showing her how strong she has become in all this time.

Disney+ is making a new film/TV series based on those books although it'll probably be a few years before they come out since they've just started writing and have not cast anyone yet. They have Norse stories as well although I have not read those books yet but I think Thor has a major role.

- We will have to wait to see any news about it.

Yes, Byrne helped revamp Sue and She-Hulk. Claremont helped boost Storm, Jean, Carol Danvers, and Jessica Drew/Spider-Woman and a bunch of other X-Women. I forgot who but it was either Claremont or it was Byrne who also boosted Wasp's powers and made her more formidable. Byrne worked on Scarlet Witch as well but frankly it's because of him that she developed a lot of problematic elements that Bendis used against her later on.

- I think that more than Byrne it must have been Roger Stern in his Avengers run in which the Wasp was the leader of the team. As for the other characters, I agree with it, even on the subject of the Scarlet Witch and the disaster that Bendis later made with her when it was something that was more than overcome.

When Lorelei appeared in Agents of SHIELD, I thought for certain that this meant Amora would appear in the next Thor film. When Hela was confirmed, I thought Amora would appear as her helper alongside Executioner, before betraying her to help Thor to stop Ragnarok and the destruction of Asgard. None of the above ever happened. Three films of Thor and Loki but nothing for Amora. That is why I hope that a new film with a new narrative with Jane Foster will allow a new female villain like Amora to appear.

- I also thought so and I sincerely believe that you now understand why I felt how I felt and I had a hard time having confidence when news about Thor came out, it is hard to believe that in 3 Thor movies they were not able to take better advantage of the characters, I would have had no problems if at least there had been some mention or even a cameo by Amora or Lorelei that could later have served as a catalyst for the following films. So also regarding the Loki series and the fourth Thor movie, I prefer not to get too excited about it until things are really confirmed.

[Charlie_1981]

Just to toss it in --

The way she was able to return is that, as seen in AVENGERS a little earlier, the Rainbow Bridge had been shattered and the pieces fallen throughout the Nine Worlds, including Hel. The pieces served as portals, which let various creatures of Norse legend (and Thor continuity) come to Earth, where many of them were controlled by Morgan le Fay and made to attack Avengers.

So during that period, people in the lands of the dead could, if they found a shard, just walk on through it and be back in the land of the living.

That's what Lorelei did.

As I recall, someone -- I forget who -- thought it was too much exposition to fit into the story we were telling, and figured people would remember it from AVENGERS. And we could explain it later when we brought Lorelei back again. Which, as it turns out, we never did.

kdb

Thanks for the answer, I really appreciate it, it would have really been great to have seen a more detailed development about that, but it is an explanation that is really consistent with what happened at that time, even if it did not have a continuity afterwards.

I really would have done something of the kind that her unknown mother saved their daughters in some way, in the case of Lorelei, guiding her to the life again or even doing things like when Amora seemed to be lost (like what happened in the series of the Defenders 107-109 in the that the soul of Amora the Enchantress ended up trapped just like the Valkyrie's did) and that it would have explained her appearance in the Secret Wars afterwards (although that could also be explained with the power of the Beyonder when she chose her) or when she was trapped in Limbo at the mercy of S'ym when Magik defeated her in the New Mutants Special Edition) and that did not break what Simonson was doing in his Thor era.

[whitecrown]

Just to toss it in --

The way she was able to return is that, as seen in AVENGERS a little earlier, the Rainbow Bridge had been shattered and the pieces fallen throughout the Nine Worlds, including Hel. The pieces served as portals, which let various creatures of Norse legend (and Thor continuity) come to Earth, where many of them were controlled by Morgan le Fay and made to attack Avengers.

So during that period, people in the lands of the dead could, if they found a shard, just walk on through it and be back in the land of the living.

That's what Lorelei did.

As I recall, someone -- I forget who -- thought it was too much exposition to fit into the story we were telling, and figured people would remember it from AVENGERS. And we could explain it later when we brought Lorelei back again. Which, as it turns out, we never did.

kdb

Thank you for explaining! That does clear it all up.

[whitecrown]

- Right, or when Hal Jordan went bad, the return of Barry Allen, the sudden disappearance of Wally West, All the Crisis ... so many things.



- I also think the same, although I do not know what would have happened if Amora had married Heimdall in the end, all that was fine but apparently at Marvel considered it necessary to Amora return to the villain life again for the sake of it, I did not see it so and I did not like it and if they did, did it well, but it was not, Warren Ellis had a relative continuity, the writer who came later (Bill Mesner-Loebs) after Ellis when he made his 4 issues, did not seem especially interested in the book he wrote and seen as seen by the characters and was just one mess behind the other and no development of anything (after all the Thor book was going to be canceled by the entire Onslaught saga and later Heroes Reborn though it had some continuity with Journey Into Mystery and the fact that De Falco wrote something with the Asgardians again.)



- Right, and they continue the same, in those things they never change.



- The Journey Into Mystery thing, I would especially like if they had both sisters as main characters or separately, even I would have no problem seeing such a book like that, but explaining the adventures of Sylvie Lushton by the Ten Realms until her return to Earth and a meeting again with Amora showing her how strong she has become in all this time.



- We will have to wait to see any news about it.



- I think that more than Byrne it must have been Roger Stern in his Avengers run in which the Wasp was the leader of the team. As for the other characters, I agree with it, even on the subject of the Scarlet Witch and the disaster that Bendis later made with her when it was something that was more than overcome.



- I also thought so and I sincerely believe that you now understand why I felt how I felt and I had a hard time having confidence when news about Thor came out, it is hard to believe that in 3 Thor movies they were not able to take better advantage of the characters, I would have had no problems if at least there had been some mention or even a cameo by Amora or Lorelei that could later have served as a catalyst for the following films. So also regarding the Loki series and the fourth Thor movie, I prefer not to get too excited about it until things are really confirmed.

Yes, all of those DC examples as well. I'm glad Marvel has mainly been safe from stuff like that.

If she had to be a villain again, it would have been more palatable had they a real reason to make her revert or some great story that justifies why she turned again and why it's important for her to be evil. However, they had nothing like that and turned her evil only to keep her as a background character they occasionally bring out for a small appearance.

Yes, I'd like to see Loreli and Amora as co-leads and this way we can dive into their history and finally get their origin and parentage.

It was either Byrne or Claremont who upgraded Wasp powerwise but yes, it was Stern who then gave her the mantle of the Avengers leader and that really helped her take off. Magical women or superpowerful women seem very difficult for Marvel to use though hence the treatment of Wanda and Amora and you could throw in Jean as well. A character like Sue Storm is the most powerful FF member but she is still not soo powerful that she is viewed as a threat by writers.

Exactly, better not to hold our breath because we have both seen that Marvel does not make any promises and we cannot hold them to anything since they have ruined great potential and opportunities in the past.