Bruce Banner: The Hulk Appreciation 2020

[HeavenlyDemonic]

Why did Peter David leave the Hulk title back in 1998? He'd been on the title for 11 years up to that point. I'd heard Marvel wanted to do a story with Bruce rampaging around fighting the Avengers and David didn't want to do that. Kind of a shame and in hindsight, foolish on Marvel's part. You'd think with him bringing the title to new heights with great writing and characterization, they would have given him carte blanche. At least we got those 11 years. Maybe being on longer would have burned him out.

PAD said once that he Planned to end his run with issue#500 which would have involved the final confrontation between Hulk and the Maestro. That would have been awesome and brought his run full circle.

Sadly, it was not to be.

It’s the same reason that Chris Claremont originally quit the X-men. Creative Differences and the same exact treatment from Marvel.

[Jness]

If it was someone else who decided to bring him back, it'd be bad, someone who decided to not respect what the other guy did, but the same writer who killed him off decides to do that? That's so much worse...

Like, I can understand that suddenly talking about Green Doors to explain how Ross is back can be rather awkward, even look like an asspull for people who aren't aware of what's going on in Immortal Hulk, but it could still be used in a vague way, in some way, but nah, editors can't be bothered to do their job... Which only makes me believe more that they're like Santa Claus.

Editors in comics in the last two decades at least have really just been dramatically underpaid (and underqualified) project managers. You might be thinking of the role as the word would literally mean - let me assure you that’s far from the case.

[Sataniel]

Editors in comics in the last two decades at least have really just been dramatically underpaid (and underqualified) project managers. You might be thinking of the role as the word would literally mean - let me assure you that’s far from the case.

It wasn't that bad at Marvel until Ike did the purge around the same time as Alonso was promoted to the EiC.

[Immortal Hulk]

Some art:

Defenders by Jorge Molina




HERB TRIMPE HOMAGE by Joe Bennett

[Lukmendes]

Editors in comics in the last two decades at least have really just been dramatically underpaid (and underqualified) project managers. You might be thinking of the role as the word would literally mean - let me assure you that’s far from the case.

Well that's a poorly named position then lol.

Was it always like this, did it change over time, or was Jim Shooter an odd ball with the way he liked continuity?

Guess in that case I can't blame editors too much when it comes to continuity issues, just some dumb ideas which either they had, or thought it should be done.

[Cth]

Well that's a poorly named position then lol.

Was it always like this, did it change over time, or was Jim Shooter an odd ball with the way he liked continuity?

Guess in that case I can't blame editors too much when it comes to continuity issues, just some dumb ideas which either they had, or thought it should be done.

The shift did indeed come with Axel and Jemas.

Axel had a lot of buzz from how Vertigo was churning out hit titles and the common theme was that they were mostly standalone stories without overlapping continuities. Sure there was some but Sandman didn't have to reference Superman and changes happening in that book.

Jemas and Bendis developed the Ultimate line which was tremendously popular and one reason was that the regular title had gotten so convoluted with continuity. It wasn't new reader friendly.

So, at that point, editorial largely became talent coordinators, keeping creators happy. The mandate was to focus on telling fun stories and not worry about other books impacting your own. This clashed when events became even more popular. Civil War being a noteworthy example, with characters acting one way in the mini and their titles, but other books writing the same character completely different.

Another interesting thing was editors treating their titles like a fifedom protecting their group of books and limiting appearances in other titles. You had mini imprints like Edge, Knights, etc.

Following an inter-office shake-up in late 1994, Tom DeFalco was removed as Marvel's Editor-in-Chief. Rather than name a successor, Marvel appointed five "Editors-in-Chief," each of whom would oversee a certain number of titles and, by extension, a certain portion of the Marvel Universe. This change was reflected externally by collecting all Marvel monthlies into broad groups: the X-Men titles, the Spider-Man titles, and three new imprints, one of them being Marvel Edge, which was overseen by Bobbie Chase.

The imprint was launched with the storyline "Over the Edge," (beginning in comics cover-dated September 1995) in which The Punisher went temporarily insane. He became convinced Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. were responsible for the death of his family, and pursued Fury through various titles which would form the core of the imprint, finally killing him. This led to a relaunch of the Punisher title, where the mafia faked Frank Castle's execution and recruited him as a mob boss.

The Marvel Edge imprint was discontinued after all comics were published with a cover-date of April 1996.

Additionally, I believe it was a reflection of the early Image days. Artists were treated like stars and catered to by editors. Now, writers had their chance at the same treatment.

[Celgress]

Some art:

Defenders by Jorge Molina

very nice

[Lukmendes]

The shift did indeed come with Axel and Jemas.

Axel had a lot of buzz from how Vertigo was churning out hit titles and the common theme was that they were mostly standalone stories without overlapping continuities. Sure there was some but Sandman didn't have to reference Superman and changes happening in that book.

Jemas and Bendis developed the Ultimate line which was tremendously popular and one reason was that the regular title had gotten so convoluted with continuity. It wasn't new reader friendly.

So, at that point, editorial largely became talent coordinators, keeping creators happy. The mandate was to focus on telling fun stories and not worry about other books impacting your own. This clashed when events became even more popular. Civil War being a noteworthy example, with characters acting one way in the mini and their titles, but other books writing the same character completely different.

Another interesting thing was editors treating their titles like a fifedom protecting their group of books and limiting appearances in other titles. You had mini imprints like Edge, Knights, etc.



Additionally, I believe it was a reflection of the early Image days. Artists were treated like stars and catered to by editors. Now, writers had their chance at the same treatment.

So, they decided to do a story over continuity kind of writing style, then got the events fetish, and never bothered to change the writing style, making the stories have **** continuity even within the events, which they still haven't fixed almost 15 years later?

Woah, don't even know what to say, outside of how hilariously incompetent this whole thing is... Oh well, thanks for the info.

[Cth]

Yep.. but to be fair its what sold.

If fans wouldn't keep buying out of habit, stores wouldn't keep ordering heavily.

In some cases it's the stores causing the problem too. Marvel giving limited editions of comics for every 100 issues ordered. Which they sell to speculators in stores or online.

Crazy times.

[Lukmendes]

Yep.. but to be fair its what sold.

If fans wouldn't keep buying out of habit, stores wouldn't keep ordering heavily.

In some cases it's the stores causing the problem too. Marvel giving limited editions of comics for every 100 issues ordered. Which they sell to speculators in stores or online.

Crazy times.

Yeah, was discussing something like that in Spidey forums, fans being dumb enough to buy something they don't like only gives Marvel reasons to keep doing it, companies like money after all, even if event fatigue is worse in the long run.

[Jness]

(edit: already said better than I upthread)

[Lukmendes]

So I'm re-reading JMS' Spidey run, and noticed two funny things that predicts some elements of Immortal Hulk.

First we have what Ezekiel says in ASM#49 vol 2:

https://i.imgur.com/apzEXLh.png

Emphasis on the third panel, where he says that the paranormal is everywhere, and mentions Hulk as an example.

Then a few issues later, a new villain is introduced, Spidey investigates, and finds out about this in #52:

https://i.imgur.com/BaXUcKJ.png

So, ASM had Ezekiel mentioning that there's a magical aspect to Hulk, and then we had a bunch of people being resurrected by Gamma radiation as one guy, funny how comics can be somewhat prophetic lol.

Just pointing out the coincidences though, because the story with this gangster is still scientific, and the guy does die in the end.

[The Cool Thatguy]

So I'm re-reading JMS' Spidey run, and noticed two funny things that predicts some elements of Immortal Hulk.

First we have what Ezekiel says in ASM#49 vol 2:

https://i.imgur.com/apzEXLh.png

Emphasis on the third panel, where he says that the paranormal is everywhere, and mentions Hulk as an example.

Then a few issues later, a new villain is introduced, Spidey investigates, and finds out about this in #52:

https://i.imgur.com/BaXUcKJ.png

So, ASM had Ezekiel mentioning that there's a magical aspect to Hulk, and then we had a bunch of people being resurrected by Gamma radiation as one guy, funny how comics can be somewhat prophetic lol.

Just pointing out the coincidences though, because the story with this gangster is still scientific, and the guy does die in the end.

Eh, Peter David did it long before in his run. Most of the beats in Ewing's run were at least alluded to under PAD.

When Banner got back from the Heroes Reborn 'verse, he was sent to a hell with Maestro and Leader before returning (and Maestro himself reviving).

After the introduction of the merged Hulk, when dealing with the Pantheon, Hulk observes that there will never be world peace so long as there are humans on it.

And, of course, Hulk's supernatural ability to see astral forms.

Peter David's Hulk always edged the super natural, but Banner's demons were mental.

Under Ewing, they're literal

PAD and Ewing's Hulks are two different creatures, but PAD was the one who really paved the way in terms of tone and themes, IMO

[ChrisIII]

Wonder if the Green Scar is going to have a 'time out'/locked up like the devil was because of the Leader possession, although I guess it's unclear whether Leader was fully in control or Scar was willing to work with him somehow.

[HeavenlyDemonic]

Wonder if the Green Scar is going to have a 'time out'/locked up like the devil was because of the Leader possession, although I guess it's unclear whether Leader was fully in control or Scar was willing to work with him somehow.

I can’t see Green Scar willingly working with the leader at all. What would he possibly gain from it? All the hulks know that the Leader can’t be trusted. And Green Scar and Bruce are more mentally in sync than the other personalities. So offering to get rid of Bruce wouldn’t be sufficient motivation. Especially now that Bruce’s system has been more unified then ever in this run.