Bruce Banner: The Hulk Appreciation 2020

[Vordan]

Immortal Hulk #44 variant by Joe Bennett

That’s Bennett? Wow that looks completely unlike his art.

[GreenScar1990]

That’s Bennett? Wow that looks completely unlike his art.

It's by Michael Cho, not Joe Bennett.

[GreenScar1990]

DEFENDERS recreation by Joe Bennett

That is a great cover recreation! We need to see Devil Hulk and Cosmic/All-Father Thor to slug it out in a "no contest" brawl. Bet this would look great inked and colored.

[Vordan]

It's by Michael Cho, not Joe Bennett.

Ahhh that’s who I recognized it from. He really likes single tone art pieces.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Whelp, the Maestro mini's completed, and I have to say I'm disappointed.

Peter David was an excellent writer who could seamlessly mix in spirituality, psychological and mythological overtones into his work. But of late, I feel as if he's either lost a step or has just stopped caring.

And to be clear, writing a climb to power for the Maestro wouldn't be an easy feat. The Maestro, introduced under PAD, was all seven deadly sins combined. It would have been a careful balancing act, regardless of the era it was written in.

Note, when I write my review, I will be referring to the original Future Imperfect, to explain my disappointment.

IMO, the misstep is in the beginning. We learn that Hulk survived the end of the world simply by not being there. In the original, Maestro is contemptuous of humans, mocking them for being worse than him. That he learned of all the destruction second hand, that he never saw it unfold himself, kinda dampens the punch of that. And that leads into the second and biggest mistake of this whole mini.

We, as readers, never really get an idea of where Hulk stands emotionally. Hulk spends years in a dream world with Betty and a family, yet when he wakes up, he never mentions them again. I remember someone once said that Hulk's only real status qou is change. He's dumb, smart, Banner in charge of Hulk, Hulk in charge of Banner, etc.

So where was this Hulk emotionally before he was taken? He never asks about Betty, or Samson. When he sees Abomination, he doesn't seem to see the man who killed his wife. As tragic as the end of the world might be for most, for Hulk it might be an improvement. Without an idea of where Bruce starts, his journey to the dark side just seems like a snap decision.

The worst of all, IMO, is that the prophecy that Maestro gives Hulk, "Persecution. Betrayal. Hatred. These things don't change." is 100% bull. Banner wakes up, protected from the end of the world, he's the one who betrayed Herc, who welcomed him with open arms.

There are other minor elements I thought were lacking.

For example, Hercules being the first Maestro makes a certain amount of sense. In Future Imperfect, the Minister was willing to kill Hulk despite not knowing the full theory of time travel. That clearly implies that someone else was in charge or around.

But while I like Hercules, I don't see him as capable of forming and then leading a city. Infrastructure, a police force and a million other things would require a certain degree of attention or intelligence that Herc lacks.

And thematically speaking, I think it undermines Maestro's story in that all he did was make some robot dogs for the city. Part of what made him so terrible was that he had his own small patch of land, and simply didn't give a damn about anywhere else. That in the face of a scorched earth, he did as little as possible once he was comfortable. Now, we find out even that is gone, and everyone else did the work

Lastly, while I don't want to go into a full vs. thread, the Maestro's strength is vastly underplayed and like above, undermines the original theme of Future Imperfect. This poisoned world has created a physically unstoppable Hulk, a force of nature who mauled Banner when they met. He should have been at least one level above Hulk and while we may see that later, its underwhelming that we never saw a Hulk that the world should rightfully fear.

So yeah. Maybe his journey to villain was better left to the imagination.

[Hulkbanner12]

Whelp, the Maestro mini's completed, and I have to say I'm disappointed.

Peter David was an excellent writer who could seamlessly mix in spirituality, psychological and mythological overtones into his work. But of late, I feel as if he's either lost a step or has just stopped caring.

And to be clear, writing a climb to power for the Maestro wouldn't be an easy feat. The Maestro, introduced under PAD, was all seven deadly sins combined. It would have been a careful balancing act, regardless of the era it was written in.

Note, when I write my review, I will be referring to the original Future Imperfect, to explain my disappointment.

IMO, the misstep is in the beginning. We learn that Hulk survived the end of the world simply by not being there. In the original, Maestro is contemptuous of humans, mocking them for being worse than him. That he learned of all the destruction second hand, that he never saw it unfold himself, kinda dampens the punch of that. And that leads into the second and biggest mistake of this whole mini.

We, as readers, never really get an idea of where Hulk stands emotionally. Hulk spends years in a dream world with Betty and a family, yet when he wakes up, he never mentions them again. I remember someone once said that Hulk's only real status qou is change. He's dumb, smart, Banner in charge of Hulk, Hulk in charge of Banner, etc.

So where was this Hulk emotionally before he was taken? He never asks about Betty, or Samson. When he sees Abomination, he doesn't seem to see the man who killed his wife. As tragic as the end of the world might be for most, for Hulk it might be an improvement. Without an idea of where Bruce starts, his journey to the dark side just seems like a snap decision.

The worst of all, IMO, is that the prophecy that Maestro gives Hulk, "Persecution. Betrayal. Hatred. These things don't change." is 100% bull. Banner wakes up, protected from the end of the world, he's the one who betrayed Herc, who welcomed him with open arms.

There are other minor elements I thought were lacking.

For example, Hercules being the first Maestro makes a certain amount of sense. In Future Imperfect, he was willing to kill Hulk despite not knowing the full theory of time travel. That clearly implies that someone else was in charge or around.

But while I like Hercules, I don't see him as capable of forming and then leading a city. Infrastructure, a police force and a million other things would require a certain degree of attention or intelligence that Herc lacks.

And thematically speaking, I think it undermines Maestro's story in that all he did was make some robot dogs for the city. Part of what made him so terrible was that he had his own small patch of land, and simply didn't give a damn about anywhere else. That in the face of a scorched earth, he did as little as possible once he was comfortable. Now, we find out even that is gone, and everyone else did the work

Lastly, while I don't want to go into a full vs. thread, the Maestro's strength is vastly underplayed and like above, undermines the original theme of Future Imperfect. This poisoned world has created a physically unstoppable Hulk, a force of nature who mauled Banner when they met. He should have been at least one level above Hulk and while we may see that later, its underwhelming that we never saw a Hulk that the world should rightfully fear.

So yeah. Maybe his journey to villain was better left to the imagination.

Maestro is not that strong compare to Savage hulk, Green scar and devil hulk. His best feat is him fighting professor hulk. Savage hulk, devil hulk, green scar will mop the floor with him.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Maestro is not that strong compare to Savage hulk, Green scar and devil hulk. His best feat is him fighting professor hulk. Savage hulk, devil hulk, green scar will mop the floor with him.

...and this is why I didn't wanna get into the Vs. thread stuff

Maestro was created as the ultimate evolution of a unleashed, intelligent Hulk. He left Bruce broken and bloody after a handful of furious blows. Thematically speaking, he should easily be the strongest Hulk.

It's just that comics have escalated since his last well written appearance

[Intothevoid]

...and this is why I didn't wanna get into the Vs. thread stuff

Maestro was created as the ultimate evolution of a unleashed, intelligent Hulk. He left Bruce broken and bloody after a handful of furious blows. Thematically speaking, he should easily be the strongest Hulk.

It's just that comics have escalated since his last well written appearance

Thematically doesn't always translate to practice.

Kluh was meant to be Hulks Hulk, but he ended up fairly weak and disappointing.

Maestros biggest problem is he is Banner in Hulks body and Banner will never be as strong as the Hulk.

[HeavenlyDemonic]

Whelp, the Maestro mini's completed, and I have to say I'm disappointed.

Peter David was an excellent writer who could seamlessly mix in spirituality, psychological and mythological overtones into his work. But of late, I feel as if he's either lost a step or has just stopped caring.

And to be clear, writing a climb to power for the Maestro wouldn't be an easy feat. The Maestro, introduced under PAD, was all seven deadly sins combined. It would have been a careful balancing act, regardless of the era it was written in.

Note, when I write my review, I will be referring to the original Future Imperfect, to explain my disappointment.

IMO, the misstep is in the beginning. We learn that Hulk survived the end of the world simply by not being there. In the original, Maestro is contemptuous of humans, mocking them for being worse than him. That he learned of all the destruction second hand, that he never saw it unfold himself, kinda dampens the punch of that. And that leads into the second and biggest mistake of this whole mini.

We, as readers, never really get an idea of where Hulk stands emotionally. Hulk spends years in a dream world with Betty and a family, yet when he wakes up, he never mentions them again. I remember someone once said that Hulk's only real status qou is change. He's dumb, smart, Banner in charge of Hulk, Hulk in charge of Banner, etc.

So where was this Hulk emotionally before he was taken? He never asks about Betty, or Samson. When he sees Abomination, he doesn't seem to see the man who killed his wife. As tragic as the end of the world might be for most, for Hulk it might be an improvement. Without an idea of where Bruce starts, his journey to the dark side just seems like a snap decision.

The worst of all, IMO, is that the prophecy that Maestro gives Hulk, "Persecution. Betrayal. Hatred. These things don't change." is 100% bull. Banner wakes up, protected from the end of the world, he's the one who betrayed Herc, who welcomed him with open arms.

There are other minor elements I thought were lacking.

For example, Hercules being the first Maestro makes a certain amount of sense. In Future Imperfect, he was willing to kill Hulk despite not knowing the full theory of time travel. That clearly implies that someone else was in charge or around.

But while I like Hercules, I don't see him as capable of forming and then leading a city. Infrastructure, a police force and a million other things would require a certain degree of attention or intelligence that Herc lacks.

And thematically speaking, I think it undermines Maestro's story in that all he did was make some robot dogs for the city. Part of what made him so terrible was that he had his own small patch of land, and simply didn't give a damn about anywhere else. That in the face of a scorched earth, he did as little as possible once he was comfortable. Now, we find out even that is gone, and everyone else did the work

Lastly, while I don't want to go into a full vs. thread, the Maestro's strength is vastly underplayed and like above, undermines the original theme of Future Imperfect. This poisoned world has created a physically unstoppable Hulk, a force of nature who mauled Banner when they met. He should have been at least one level above Hulk and while we may see that later, its underwhelming that we never saw a Hulk that the world should rightfully fear.

So yeah. Maybe his journey to villain was better left to the imagination.

Yeah, this part of the story wasn’t the best. Not horrible, but just lacking “oomph”. Hopefully the next Maestro miniseries will be more engaging, now that the set up phase is done

[Immortal Hulk]

Just finished reading Maestro, and can't believe how pointless the whole thing was... :/

[Intothevoid]

Just finished reading Maestro, and can't believe how pointless the whole thing was... :/

It was really anti-climactic.

I dunno if this was the original end of the mini(before the next mini was announced)

But if it was, it feels like it just ends randomly without any real conclusion, the moment where "Maestro" makes the decision that he is no longer calling himself Hulk or Bruce was the most underwhelming thing ever, it had no oompf whatsoever.

I hope PAD picks up momentum in the next mini but i am honestly not holding my breath, i am almost certain the next mini will be just as underwhelming i read the solicitations for issue 3 of the next mini and Maestro continues to get his ass kicked, this time by the Pantheon.

It really is weird, you are combining the power of Hulk with the genius of Bruce Banner, that there would make him one of the most dangerous and powerful beings on Earth but he just comes of as completely incompetent and PAD never actually gives an excuse for it, like saying that because this is a fractured Bruce personality he is incompetent or he has the smarts of a genius but a reasoning of a child because that's when his personality split when he was beat up, or something...

[Vordan]

This is why I’m not a fan of long time creators coming back much later to the characters. Most of the time the follow ups are trash, because the character has evolved from when the creator wrote them, or the creator just isn’t as hot as they used to be. Feels like PAD was just phoning this one in for a check.

[The Cool Thatguy]

This is why I’m not a fan of long time creators coming back much later to the characters. Most of the time the follow ups are trash, because the character has evolved from when the creator wrote them, or the creator just isn’t as hot as they used to be. Feels like PAD was just phoning this one in for a check.

Agreed. PAD's stuff lately seems to needlessly repeat or invoke all pet characters for little reason (like Cyber in Scarlet Spider). This definitely feels phoned in.

[ChrisIII]

I think that Ship has sailed. If she hasn’t hooked up with Len by now, she’s not going to. They work better as friends. It would be more interesting if she and Joe became a couple while he’s still in Bruce’s body. Joe already accepts her Harpy form, and with his new laid back attitude and maturity, they could balance each other out really well.

Joe also did kind of have one of the best Hulk/Betty moments way back in #340ish ("I thought you didn't have any tears left")


Speaking of Joe, anybody think his bunny slippers in King In Black might've been a slight nod to the Merged/Professor Hulk's look in War and Pieces?

[HeavenlyDemonic]

Joe also did kind of have one of the best Hulk/Betty moments way back in #340ish ("I thought you didn't have any tears left")


Speaking of Joe, anybody think his bunny slippers in King In Black might've been a slight nod to the Merged/Professor Hulk's look in War and Pieces?

That’s what I thought when I read the issue too!
But, Yeah, I think that Betty has the most “ down to earth” relationship with Joe than compared to the hulk personalities. She’s able to see through the tough act and break down some of his defenses in a way that Marlo never could. Like in issue 373, where she calls him out his BS about hating her, by saying “No. You’re afraid of me. You have affection for me, but you can’t admit it, because that makes you like puny Banner.”

Bruce said in Pak’s run that the Hulk loves Betty even more than he does, and I think deep down,some part of Betty knows that it’s true.