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  1. #1336
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    What is in his bibliography?
    He wrote Axis: Hobgoblin which a lot of people seemed to like. A few mini's and guest issues during the Superior Spider-Man era.

    He was a writer for Robot Chicken and was the showrunner for the first season of the Marvel's Spider-Man cartoon (and even voiced Bruce Banner in said show).

  2. #1337
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Yeah but that Wally was also incredibly different from the show, NTT was angry, frustrated and conflicted about where his life wanted to go, plus his powers were killing him, that doesn't really apply to YJ Wally.

    Granted, i could buy that after the death of Tulan and Jason and maybe some insecurity about his skills as a hero for not being as fast as Barry might have lead him to take that decision, but because he doesn't really recieve any significant focus in season 2 it might just be me reading too much into it.
    Wally was redundant as a hero in the show. He was demonstrably impotent compared to Bart and Barry. Plenty of reason to retire.

    It's actually hilarious to me that Bart "took up" Wally's mantle when he was immediately displayed as the better hero from day 1.

  3. #1338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Wally was redundant as a hero in the show. He was demonstrably impotent compared to Bart and Barry. Plenty of reason to retire.

    It's actually hilarious to me that Bart "took up" Wally's mantle when he was immediately displayed as the better hero from day 1.
    He was basically retired before Bart showed up.

    It was honestly kind of insulting that they emphasized how much faster Barry and Bart were than Wally and that ends up getting him killed.

    Like, him being slower than Barry and then surpassing him was a huge part of his character...but apparently that's a story not worth telling over other characters.

  4. #1339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well to be fair, it's not like Wally never retired in the comics. Wolfman's NTT started with him in college and the costume put away in a closet. So Weisman has precedent for Wally retiring around that age.
    The issue is Weisman's version wasn't built to retire as the big takeaway from "Coldhearted" was that he matured and would be a better hero going forward. But instead they had him retire to focus on his life with Artemis and sit out the invasion unless it directly impacted his own life.

    The problem with the retirement is they had already established his heroic outlook as a weakness in the first season. It's just like how they dedicated an entire episode to making fun of him for being inferior to Barry/Bart before they killed him off only because he was inferior. His development/story was the same thing over and over again with 'prettier' wrapping.
    Last edited by Rend20; 07-17-2020 at 01:37 PM.

  5. #1340
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Wally was redundant as a hero in the show. He was demonstrably impotent compared to Bart and Barry. Plenty of reason to retire.

    It's actually hilarious to me that Bart "took up" Wally's mantle when he was immediately displayed as the better hero from day 1.
    Yeah, because is better for the world to have less speedsters saving people just cause one of them is a little slower. Makes no sense.

  6. #1341
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    Apparently so, because being the shittiest speedster got him killed.

  7. #1342
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    It wasn't that he was the @#$%iest, it was because he was somehow slower. I guess even without a Speed Force a random lightning bolt giving you superpowers is somehow more genuine than a man-made version.

  8. #1343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Yeah, because is better for the world to have less speedsters saving people just cause one of them is a little slower. Makes no sense.
    You're making the assumption that saving people was a big deal for YJ!Wally when that really wasn't the case.

    Their take on Wally is that he was a good person who was primarily motivated to do the hero thing for self-serving reasons. And once being a hero wasn't about him, he was done with it and never regretted walking away. He was a lesser hero than his peers along with being a failure as a speedster.

  9. #1344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rend20 View Post
    You're making the assumption that saving people was a big deal for YJ!Wally when that really wasn't the case.

    Their take on Wally is that he was a good person who was primarily motivated to do the hero thing for self-serving reasons. And once being a hero wasn't about him, he was done with it and never regretted walking away. He was a lesser hero than his peers along with being a failure as a speedster.
    I thought he grew out of that self-serving aspect but when you put it that way...they really did Wally dirty.

  10. #1345
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rend20 View Post
    You're making the assumption that saving people was a big deal for YJ!Wally when that really wasn't the case.

    Their take on Wally is that he was a good person who was primarily motivated to do the hero thing for self-serving reasons. And once being a hero wasn't about him, he was done with it and never regretted walking away. He was a lesser hero than his peers along with being a failure as a speedster.
    And yet he choose to sacrifice his life twice (once puting Dr Fate helmet and later dying in the season two finale).
    I guess we have different views about the show.

  11. #1346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    And yet he choose to sacrifice his life twice (once puting Dr Fate helmet and later dying in the season two finale).
    I guess we have different views about the show.
    He could've done so much more than that though.

  12. #1347
    Incredible Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    He could've done so much more than that though.
    Oh, don't get me wrong, I wanted much more too.

  13. #1348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I thought he grew out of that self-serving aspect but when you put it that way...
    I always saw him refusing to get involved during the invasion in the same vein as him prioritizing impressing M'gann over finding Kent Nelson and viewing delivering the heart as not being a real mission because he wanted to do something else in his season one character episodes.

    I do think the idea behind "Coldhearted" was to get him to grow out of it. They just didn't have any actual interest in putting substance behind the idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    And yet he choose to sacrifice his life twice (once puting Dr Fate helmet and later dying in the season two finale).
    I guess we have different views about the show.
    Him doing the right thing when properly pushed is part of him being a good person. But him having to be pushed is different from the rest of the heroes.
    Last edited by Rend20; 07-17-2020 at 02:49 PM.

  14. #1349
    Wally 'Ginger' West fan
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    Frankly, I came to despise Young Justice the TV version by mid 2nd season when it was becoming clear that they weren't bringing Wally back as a hero after dissing him left, right, and center all through season 1 with pretty rare exceptions. Didn't even bother with season 3 other than to keep an ear out for whether he returned from the speed force to become at least on par with the Allens. So much for that. Now I can utterly care less.

    Flash TV was another disappointment.
    Movie Flash was... ugh. The whole thing was ugh.

    Given up on animated or live action DC for the foreseeable future. My only hope now is that Metal does Wally proud, but even there I really hate the BWL character. Too disgusting for my tastes. If I buy the DM trade it is going to be rife with copy paper pages hiding pages via hand-written commentary notes so I know what basically transpired without having to actually see the blood and guts a second time.
    Parental care is way exhausting. Gained insight into what my parents went through when I was a baby. Not fun, but what ya gonna do? (Read comics, obviously.)

  15. #1350
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I had more faith he would come back in season 4 at the start of season 3 than I did by the end.
    And he might not return at all. Other than Halo I don't recall the show really doing the resurrection thing like comics are wont to do. But I don't think Wally was brought up as much as he was in season 3 just for kicks, either. They had that whole "will they/won't they" with Artemis and Roy; a whole episode focused around Artemis missing Wally wasn't necessary for that subplot. Wally didn't have to be mentioned at all in the Beast Boy episode, much less narrate the whole thing. Dick didn't have to hallucinate those conversations with Wally. Weisman kept using Wally for a purpose, and I don't think it was *just* to reinforce the sense of loss the rest of the Team felt. Maybe Wally stays dead (it'd be a novel concept for superheroes at this point) but if he does return? Won't surprise me in the least.

    I'm not saying Wally was treated well on the show; he got killed off after spending a whole season retired. Pretty lackluster. And he was the least mature and selfless member of the Team in the first place. But Wally retiring *does* have precedent. That's the only point I was making.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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