Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2020

[Dred]

The power up happened regardless of the Speed Force. The power up was just a trend Waid was going through to establish Wally's character arc. As originally conceived, the Speed Force actually was a limitation.

And to say Barry's powers were actually speed based is a stretch. Vibrations were a kitschy explanation for everything but a lot of the stuff he did wasn't really a derivative of super speed.

[WallyWestFlash]

Morrison and Miller did some fantastic Wally issues around the Waid era too (shortly after? As fill-in writers? I forget) and DC could have gotten either of them. Morrison also wrote Wally in JLA for several years.

Yeah Morrison and Miller filled in for Emergency stop and just Morrison for the human race.

Emergency stop was really good and had that cool energy suit when Wally became crippled.

Even though Morrison did write Wally a lot in his JLA series I dont think of him as one of the essential Wally writers since he didnt really write Wally as a character. I think his main contribution was having Wally do some cool, out of this world feats. But that's just Morrioson being bombastic Morrison. Otherwise I think he just wrote him as a generic rookie.

Yep, I loved when Wally had things to overcome. My all time favorite Wally story was Return of Barry Allen.... which I picked up because I was a Barry fan. But the whole story spoke of Wally and him overcoming his fears and weaknesses and how he became Barry's equal and it was amazing. It completely pulled the rug out from under me as opposed to what I WANTED... but what I got was just as good.

Once the Speed Force was introduced I think Wally became too unbelievable and too powerful and just... meh.... and once his kids were introduced he became unreadable.... but yeah, I love me some Loeb/early Waid era Wally... I just thought I was the only one

The power up happened regardless of the Speed Force. The power up was just a trend Waid was going through to establish Wally's character arc. As originally conceived, the Speed Force actually was a limitation.

And to say Barry's powers were actually speed based is a stretch. Vibrations were a kitschy explanation for everything but a lot of the stuff he did wasn't really a derivative of super speed.

The whole Speed force addition and whether it was a plus or minus for Wally is a tricky one.

I think the original idea is a great one. It gives Wally his own spin and angle on super speed. Rather than Barry which was very science based this is altogether something else. It also matches more with Wallys more emotional and instinctive personality.

It did give Wally limitations as it was very mysterious and even when Wally did amazing things by harnessing the speed force he mostly didnt know how he even did it let alone how it worked. It was a brand new concept with a lot of mysterious depth to be explored.

Unfortunately as Wallys series progressed the speed force got out of hand and was construed to have Wally do almost anything with no set rules just reason being speed force.

I dont think the speed force should make Wally and his use of super speed more powerful than Barry's science based super speed just different.

Like the different colored lanterns. Red lanterns rings are not necessarily more powerful than Green Lanterns rings just different spins on it.

[BohemiaDrinker]

That's how it started... it but it ballooned into absurdity. Silver Age Barry did crazy amazing things that defied science for sure... but at least they tried to keep it 'speed based'

Dude, he once had his body disintegrated and pulled himself back together due to "complete molecular control".

[Frontier]

Dude, he once had his body disintegrated and pulled himself back together due to "complete molecular control".

Nothing can kill a Flash .

[WallyWestFlash]

Screenshot_20200303-104436_Instagram.jpg

Pin up by Howard Porter from tomorrow's Flash 750.

Pretty cool. Too bad it wasn't a variant cover.

[Frontier]

Screenshot_20200303-104436_Instagram.jpg

Pin up by Howard Porter from tomorrow's Flash 750.

Pretty cool. Too bad it wasn't a variant cover.

That's awesome. Just wish Jesse was in there, but otherwise it's all The Flashes (and Wallace), so I can't complain .

[phantom1592]

I dont think the speed force should make Wally and his use of super speed more powerful than Barry's science based super speed just different.

Like the different colored lanterns. Red lanterns rings are not necessarily more powerful than Green Lanterns rings just different spins on it.

Yeah, agree with that. Like how Barry was doused with lightning and chemicals... and Jay breathed his hard water vapors...and Johnny Quick had his formula... Neither was a 'better' version of speed, just different.

[Digifiend]

That's awesome. Just wish Jesse was in there, but otherwise it's all The Flashes (and Wallace), so I can't complain .

Avery's missing, so it's not all the Flashes.

[Ascended]

No Max either, though he hasn't been around in forever so I wouldn't expect him. Same with Jesse and Johnny and John and XS.

And I know those folks didn't go by "Flash" but they were still part of the family.

[Kyer]

The whole Speed force addition and whether it was a plus or minus for Wally is a tricky one.
...
Unfortunately as Wallys series progressed the speed force got out of hand and was construed to have Wally do almost anything with no set rules just reason being speed force.

I love the Speed Force as originally written, but it has developed the same problem Doctor Who's sonic screwdriver had when it gradually became a 'get out of jail free' card. Sadly (to me) they may have to get rid of it altogether now.

Dude, he once had his body disintegrated and pulled himself back together due to "complete molecular control".

Oh come on! If that is the case then the only thing that could kill Barry Allen is a mortal strike while he was unconscious. No, wait, the unconscious is still active even when the conscious is out like a light...
Strike him with a mortal blow while also hitting him with a cacophony of discordant vibrations?

[Dataweaver]

The whole Speed force addition and whether it was a plus or minus for Wally is a tricky one.

I think the original idea is a great one. It gives Wally his own spin and angle on super speed. Rather than Barry which was very science based this is altogether something else. It also matches more with Wallys more emotional and instinctive personality.

It did give Wally limitations as it was very mysterious and even when Wally did amazing things by harnessing the speed force he mostly didnt know how he even did it let alone how it worked. It was a brand new concept with a lot of mysterious depth to be explored.

Unfortunately as Wallys series progressed the speed force got out of hand and was construed to have Wally do almost anything with no set rules just reason being speed force.

I dont think the speed force should make Wally and his use of super speed more powerful than Barry's science based super speed just different.

Like the different colored lanterns. Red lanterns rings are not necessarily more powerful than Green Lanterns rings just different spins on it.

Personally, I tend to think of the Speed Force, the Negative Speed Force, the Still Force, and the Eternity Force merely as aspects of a larger structure that DC's speedsters tap into:


The Speed Force is the 1, the Negative Speed Force is the -1, the Still Force is the 0, and the Eternity Force is the ∞. And the “i” and “-i” are as yet unnamed aspects of this larger structure: unnamed, but not unfamiliar. The Speed Force deals with the forward flow of Time; the Negative Speed Force deals with reversing the flow of time: under this scheme, every time the Flash has traveled into the past, he has knowingly or not been tapping into the Negative Speed Force. The Still Force deals with negating motion; thus its association with zero. The Eternity Force deals with stepping outside of time. And finally, the aspect of this that's associated with “i” and “-i” is what Barry taped into for the first time way back in Flash of Two Worlds: it's what speedsters use to traverse the Multiverse. A sort of “Lateral Speed Force”, if you will.

[Jekyll]

Yeah Morrison and Miller filled in for Emergency stop and just Morrison for the human race.

Emergency stop was really good and had that cool energy suit when Wally became crippled.

Even though Morrison did write Wally a lot in his JLA series I dont think of him as one of the essential Wally writers since he didnt really write Wally as a character. I think his main contribution was having Wally do some cool, out of this world feats. But that's just Morrioson being bombastic Morrison. Otherwise I think he just wrote him as a generic rookie.

Didn’t Morrison bring in the Black Flash as well? I love that story! I think Miller wrote that Jay Garrick issue I really love, when Wally is side lined and Jay helps one of his former enemies that is on his death bed.

[Denirac]

So I really liked the Wally stuff in #750, I couldnt decide so picked up both 90s and 2000s covers

[WallyWestFlash]

Personally, I tend to think of the Speed Force, the Negative Speed Force, the Still Force, and the Eternity Force merely as aspects of a larger structure that DC's speedsters tap into:


The Speed Force is the 1, the Negative Speed Force is the -1, the Still Force is the 0, and the Eternity Force is the ∞. And the “i” and “-i” are as yet unnamed aspects of this larger structure: unnamed, but not unfamiliar. The Speed Force deals with the forward flow of Time; the Negative Speed Force deals with reversing the flow of time: under this scheme, every time the Flash has traveled into the past, he has knowingly or not been tapping into the Negative Speed Force. The Still Force deals with negating motion; thus its association with zero. The Eternity Force deals with stepping outside of time. And finally, the aspect of this that's associated with “i” and “-i” is what Barry taped into for the first time way back in Flash of Two Worlds: it's what speedsters use to traverse the Multiverse. A sort of “Lateral Speed Force”, if you will.

Wow. That's awesome. Looks like you put a lot of thought into that. As someone who appreciates some science that is very cool.

Didn’t Morrison bring in the Black Flash as well? I love that story! I think Miller wrote that Jay Garrick issue I really love, when Wally is side lined and Jay helps one of his former enemies that is on his death bed.

Yeah I think tour right. It was during that transition era after Race against time and Walter West.

Black Flash was ok. For me though the series started losing focus a bit and wasn't as streamlined as before. The whole forgetting Linda plot was a bit confusing to me and the art became really bad so I don't have the fondest memories of that story line.

That Jay solo issue was nice though.

So I really liked the Wally stuff in #750, I couldnt decide so picked up both 90s and 2000s covers

Great to hear. I'm actually kind of excited for it today. I had lost interest in it a few months ago especially with the whole covers fiasco but what I've been hearing recently on it has got me hyped. Looking forward to reading it today.

Think I want to get the Jay 40's cover and 90's cover.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Ooh yeah, I really hated Pop Mahn's art towards the end of Morrison/ Millar's run (I vaguely recall that Millar wrote the Black Flash stuff solo) and into what was easily the worst period of Waid's Flash. The whole Barry's evil twin thing was unbelievably hacky and, though Chained Lightning was fun, it was saddled with that stupid premise all the way through. Fortunately, he finished strong with the Walter West arc.