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  1. #1381
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    Right before they pull the rug from us and kill him.
    Dude, I understand this outlook, I really, really do.

    But bear in mind: there's no Didio anymore. I'm not saying it's all rainbows for now on, but there's a very big chance that the era of fan-baiting, trolling and downright pettiness is over.

    Of course, if all remains the same, we can return to our default state, but we should not assume the worst (for now).
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

    To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!

  2. #1382
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I mean, for all my issues with Snyder, he doesn't strike me as the type who would do that to Wally.

  3. #1383
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    Dude, I understand this outlook, I really, really do.

    But bear in mind: there's no Didio anymore. I'm not saying it's all rainbows for now on, but there's a very big chance that the era of fan-baiting, trolling and downright pettiness is over.

    Of course, if all remains the same, we can return to our default state, but we should not assume the worst (for now).
    I remain cautiously optimistic as well. It looks like well be getting back to before Didio sabatoged Rebirth. Where Wally and Barry actually like each other and not going at each other ala Flash War.

    From Speed Metal. So great to see.

    20200722_151911.jpg
    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

    Favorite Heroes - 1-Flash/Wally West, 2-Superman, 3-Green Lantern/Hal Jordan, 4-Nightwing, 5-Hawkman, 6-Firestorm, 7-Supergirl/Linda Danvers, 8-Zatanna, 9-Robin/Tim Drake

  4. #1384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, for all my issues with Snyder, he doesn't strike me as the type who would do that to Wally.
    Remember when Tom King went on several interviews stating how Wally was his Flash and how Wally was his favorite and how he'd do everything in his power to do Wally justice? and Gerads backed him up on every statement.

    That's when we got HiC.

  5. #1385
    Fantastic Member TheMaker1610's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Remember when Tom King went on several interviews stating how Wally was his Flash and how Wally was his favorite and how he'd do everything in his power to do Wally justice? and Gerads backed him up on every statement.

    That's when we got HiC.
    I dont plan on defending King, since he basically wrote that whole fiasco neverthless, but..
    Wasnt the higher-ups (aka Didio) orders to have Wally as either the victim/killer in that mess?


    On another note, I would really love for Wally to return to its prime days, or at least get the Williamson's treatment pre-Flash War (Flash Annual #1 was a love letter to Wally, and the Perfect Storm arc was really really good for him also ! )

  6. #1386
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Remember when Tom King went on several interviews stating how Wally was his Flash and how Wally was his favorite and how he'd do everything in his power to do Wally justice? and Gerads backed him up on every statement.

    That's when we got HiC.
    Snyder's not King (or Gerards), though.

  7. #1387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Snyder's not King (or Gerards), though.
    True, but King's not the only one who said one thing but did the other. Remember, Brad Meltzer said that Identity Crisis was a love letter to the Silver Age. Think about it for a second.

  8. #1388
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLSmoothJ View Post
    True, but King's not the only one who said one thing but did the other. Remember, Brad Meltzer said that Identity Crisis was a love letter to the Silver Age. Think about it for a second.
    I understand that, but I've just read enough Snyder to where I don't think he would pull something like that.

  9. #1389
    Extraordinary Member Drako's Avatar
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    I think Scott Snyder has more creative control than King ever had with Heroes in Crisis.

    I remember reading that Snyder even butted heads with Didio over Metal a couple of times.

  10. #1390
    Astonishing Member WallyWestFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    I think Scott Snyder has more creative control than King ever had with Heroes in Crisis.

    I remember reading that Snyder even butted heads with Didio over Metal a couple of times.
    Yes he did. He pretty much says it out right in.the video interview i.posted last page.

    As far as Snyder, I dont think he would pull a fast one like.that. It's not his style.

    King is a different story for a few reasons. He doesn't actually want to please the fans and Snyder does. He doesn't respect the characters, as seen from his stories where he inserts random DC character into his depressing story even when it doesn't match. And lastly Snyder writes stories with comic book optimism and fun. Whereas King writes all his stories with the hero going through a mid life crisis, psychological breakdown. Mister Miracle, Batman, and now Adam Strange. We were never going to get a non depressing story with Wally in HIC.
    My name is Wally West. I"m the fastest man alive. I"m the Flash.

    Favorite Heroes - 1-Flash/Wally West, 2-Superman, 3-Green Lantern/Hal Jordan, 4-Nightwing, 5-Hawkman, 6-Firestorm, 7-Supergirl/Linda Danvers, 8-Zatanna, 9-Robin/Tim Drake

  11. #1391
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I think King's kind of storytelling is fine....when it's in its place. Mister Miracle was the best book of 2018 and it was pure King-isms. But King isn't the kind of writer I'd want on most major characters or mainline big titles; he's better with the D-lister miniseries where he has more flexibility and fewer expectations. That, or give him a co-writer who can help curb his worst excesses; King was great on Grayson when Seeley was there to balance him out.

    Snyder is like a less smart Morrison, which sounds like an insult but isn't meant to be. Morrison dives deep into all kinds of topics and is often too smart for his own good and his books get dragged down by his own meta-commentary. Snyder has that same kind of big imagination ambitious scope, and he loves to use old continuity like Morrison, but he's not anywhere close to being as layered or nuanced. If Morrison is the dark bohemian prog-metal band Tool, then Snyder is AC/DC; loud, fun anthem rock you don't have to think too hard about. The dirty deeds are done dirt cheap and that's all there is to it, unlike Morrison where you have to read the issue six times, then cross-reference it against Morrison's other books and the latest issues of science and philosophy journals to truly get what's happening.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  12. #1392
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    I don't think Snyder ior King carry much of the blame for anything here: Wally's situation was purely driven by editorial. King wrote a terrible story that he thought was good, yes, but it would be terrible no matter who the main character was.

    The whole question revolves around the current higher-ups. If Snyder is not cut for it, I'm sure there are a line of writers waiting to make Wally himself again. If they let them do it, things are looking good.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

    To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!

  13. #1393
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    They're done with burying Wally anyway.

  14. #1394
    Fantastic Member Dr. Ellingham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLSmoothJ View Post
    True, but King's not the only one who said one thing but did the other. Remember, Brad Meltzer said that Identity Crisis was a love letter to the Silver Age. Think about it for a second.
    Are you sure about the Meltzer thing? I was just reading an NPR article on Identity Crisis from 2005, and he said his original pitch was built on a suggestion from DC to do something related to the risks of heroism in a post-9/11 world:

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Meltzer
    It was post-9/11--right after 9/11. DC Comics is located in New York City. And the head of DC Comics said to me, `Listen, when we think of firemen, we think of policemen, we used to think of people who were really out of a Normal Rockwell painting. They had a child on their shoulder and they're in a parade and they hold the American flag, and isn't life grand. But after 9/11, they said, `You look at a fireman and you look at anyone--a policewoman putting on a uniform and you stop and you say, `Wait a minute. They're risking their lives every day. They could die today.' And we never looked at those people the same again. And what they said to me was, `Brad, we want you in "Identity Crisis" to do something like that for us. Let us feel that when these characters, when our Superman, when our Batman, when our Wonder Woman--as silly as it sounds--but when they put on their uniforms, even though it's a cape and a utility belt--but when they put on their uniforms that they're risking their lives. Bring us that sense of danger back, that sense of reality and what it really costs to be a hero in today's society.' And that was really our starting point.

  15. #1395
    Incredible Member PennyDreadful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    I don't think Snyder ior King carry much of the blame for anything here: Wally's situation was purely driven by editorial. King wrote a terrible story that he thought was good, yes, but it would be terrible no matter who the main character was.

    The whole question revolves around the current higher-ups. If Snyder is not cut for it, I'm sure there are a line of writers waiting to make Wally himself again. If they let them do it, things are looking good.
    Are we really sure Identity Crisis 2: Electric Boogaloo was editorially driven?

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