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  1. #526
    Spectacular Member Knightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    For almost 30 years, she was the narrative embodiment of British colonialism. I’m saying, lean all the way into it, and give a British hero a British story. Actually showing an aristocratic protagonist be forced to contend with the realities of exploitation would be new, relevant, and appropriate to the themes of the X-Men and the challenges of the character.
    You shouldn't throw around big words like colonisation because you clearly don't know what it means.

  2. #527
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    Part of the reason that I never had a problem with Betsy in the Asian body was that it wasn't her idea, she never played it as a joke or thought that it was funny or anything like that, it happened against her will and for much of the time she had accepted it and moved on...the body that Kwannon is in now isn't even her original body anyway, it's a body that Jamie Braddock made for Betsy some years ago, so technically Kwannon is in Betsy's body at the moment...

  3. #528
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Part of the reason that I never had a problem with Betsy in the Asian body was that it wasn't her idea, she never played it as a joke or thought that it was funny or anything like that, it happened against her will and for much of the time she had accepted it and moved on...the body that Kwannon is in now isn't even her original body anyway, it's a body that Jamie Braddock made for Betsy some years ago, so technically Kwannon is in Betsy's body at the moment...
    If you’re referring to Uncanny X-Force’s Otherworld arc, Betsy didn’t take that body.

    In fact, that body she didn’t take was a recreation of her original, Caucasian body. I can’t remember why she turned it down in character but...

    Anyways, the issue was that Marvel would treat Betsy as if she counted towards the diversity of a team when she really, really didn’t.

  4. #529
    Astonishing Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    Part of the reason that I never had a problem with Betsy in the Asian body was that it wasn't her idea, she never played it as a joke or thought that it was funny or anything like that, it happened against her will and for much of the time she had accepted it and moved on...the body that Kwannon is in now isn't even her original body anyway, it's a body that Jamie Braddock made for Betsy some years ago, so technically Kwannon is in Betsy's body at the moment...
    Also if you're talking about when CC brought her back in the Uncanny run he did. Jamie did bring her back BUT he brought her back in the body she died in AND all he did was stitch her up and make her better and gave her some power ups to fight against the First Fallen or whatever it was called.

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  6. #531
    Spectacular Member Dipter's Avatar
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    This is going to sound ridiculous but does anyone else think it would be interesting for the writers to explore the idea that Betsy misses being Asian? After several decades in that body she probably got comfortable and started to see it as part of her identity. Did she still view herself as a white girl during that period?

  7. #532
    homo superior gifted's Avatar
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    Elizabeth Braddock returns in this meta commentary on the purple-haired, adrenaline-junkie mutant, in which she discovers a world of soul, of intrigue, of wonder. After decades of being manipulated and tortured, Betsy has finally discovered the truth of who she is by self-realization. No longer will she let the people define her by being "Japanese" or "British" or "a psychic knife-wielding ninja." She just wants to be known simply as Betsy Braddock or... The Imperial Monarch!

    As the Monarch, Betsy realized that change is the only way to progress and live her life to the fullest. She now thanks Slaymaster for blinding her, as she would not have learned to perfect her telepathy without it. She now thanks Kwannon for sharing a body with her, as she would not have mastered martial arts without it. She now thanks her brother for granting her the Captain Britain mantle, as she would not have been burdened with the responsibility of protecting a nation.

    The Monarch Butterfly signifies change and Betsy now embraces that very concept. She's not just an agent of STRIKE, a member of the X-Men, or a soldier of the Captain Britain Corps-- she can be all of these things and many more. In this new direction for our favorite femme fatale, watch as she becomes a freelancer and does... Whatever she wants.

    Whether that's helping to protect the Queen in foreign affairs, traveling to Otherworld to lead a rebellion in war against the dark arts, teaming up with Doctor Strange to solve an astral plane mystery, promoting coexistence for her X-Men brothers and sisters, finding herself in Japan to take down The Hand, or having a girls night out be interrupted by a z-listing menace-- you can find it all by following the Imperial Monarch!

    This adventure is all about change! It's Betsy's turn to empower women with the idea that they can be more than just one thing. That they can have more than just one story. That they can have many lovers without shame. Also that they can kick ass just like any other man out there. They may call her the female James Bond, but she calls herself the one and only Betsy Braddock!

    ^ that would be my pitch to bring Betsy forward in the Marvel Universe with staying power. Give her a more streamlined, primary costume, but have her switch costumes on occasion and depending on what the mission is. Have her run around as Captain Britain for an arc even. Elevate her status as a solo-faring character. Showcase her in Avengers books, X-Men books, other solo books, etc. I see it being similar to the great female solos of the 70s and 80s, like She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel.

    Promote her everywhere and give her a stellar writer with an artist who had a distinctive style. Si Spurrier + Kev Walker would be a killer creative team. Make the aesthetic flowery and boho, but masculine and edgy at the same time. And the meta commentary depends on the fact that us fans are always debating which "version" of her we like best, but she as a character turns that on its head and says, "Fuck it. I can be none of that or all of that at the same time."

    Literally, I did it again. This pitch was supposed to be two paragraphs and I went on a 2am rant.
    Last edited by gifted; 04-03-2020 at 11:42 PM.
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  8. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipter View Post
    This is going to sound ridiculous but does anyone else think it would be interesting for the writers to explore the idea that Betsy misses being Asian? After several decades in that body she probably got comfortable and started to see it as part of her identity. Did she still view herself as a white girl during that period?
    Except that in universe it wasn't decades in the more Asian body, it was decades in our time only if memory serves, though in the comics she had accepted the Asian body years ago and moved on...then it all changed...

  9. #534
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dipter View Post
    This is going to sound ridiculous but does anyone else think it would be interesting for the writers to explore the idea that Betsy misses being Asian? After several decades in that body she probably got comfortable and started to see it as part of her identity. Did she still view herself as a white girl during that period?
    They should explore the idea of her thinking of Kwannon's body as her own a bit more, but I don't think focusing on the asian part is a good idea.

  10. #535
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gifted View Post
    I see it being similar to the great female solos of the 70s and 80s, like She-Hulk or Ms. Marvel.
    Ding ding ding ding ding ding.

    This is exactly her niche. Psylocke can be the psychic ninja serving on X-squads. BETSY BRADDOCK should be the psychic adventurer that travels the world, the galaxy, and all adjacent planes, realms, and dimensions.

  11. #536
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAR View Post
    Also if you're talking about when CC brought her back in the Uncanny run he did. Jamie did bring her back BUT he brought her back in the body she died in AND all he did was stitch her up and make her better and gave her some power ups to fight against the First Fallen or whatever it was called.
    Claremont also wanted to bring her back in her original body since the second issue of XXM, but was told no by editorial. Part of the reason he created Bloody Bess.

    How would everyone feel about revealing Betsy, Brian, and Jamie are part of the NEO?
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  12. #537
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    How would everyone feel about revealing Betsy, Brian, and Jamie are part of the NEO?
    Not opposed to the notion, but I’d need a concise explanation of what the Neo are, as opposed to mutants, humans, Inhumans, eternals, deviants, etc.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo_...omics_species)

    Nevermind. This explains that the Neo are ANOTHER secret society of super-humans with ill-defined powers and unnecessary pathos. The fact that “secret societies” can amass casual future tech like anti-grav bikes is silly and stupid.

    Though we could start a conversation about bridging Otherworld mutants with Neo. Expatriate mutants from a parallel Earth filled with CB tech and legit magic COULD solve for X.
    Last edited by CRaymond; 04-04-2020 at 10:44 PM.

  13. #538
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Tieing the Neo in with Otherworld as part of their origin, and have the Braddock’s parents all tie into them. Make them a genetic experiment created by Merlyn.
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  14. #539
    Extraordinary Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    I want to start a thread ABOUT Otherworld. Much of what I know and think is based on Davis’ Excalibur issues and I know that more has been added to the cosmology of that world.

    Exploring where it’s population comes from, whether it has mutants and intra-Earth transit are VERY recent questions of mine.

  15. #540
    Dark Angel of Feminism Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    I want to start a thread ABOUT Otherworld. Much of what I know and think is based on Davis’ Excalibur issues and I know that more has been added to the cosmology of that world.

    Exploring where it’s population comes from, whether it has mutants and intra-Earth transit are VERY recent questions of mine.
    I love Otherworld, and it’s boundless potential.
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