Elizabeth (Betsy) Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2020

[CGAR]

Ok here's the thing. I low key positive that we're stuck with the Captain Britain phase for a long time. Or it WILL last the whole Hickman era.

Also with the way Zeb Wells is writing Psylocke. Fans are not going to care that Betsy isn't Psylocke. Also I'm glad Kwannon has a good writer. I did not like Fallen Angels at all.

I'm a Betsy fan and trying to stay optimistic. The reason I bring up those two fools. Is because they actually articulated those thoughts in live interviews. So if they weren't going to try to do something with Betsy. They should have just kept their mouths shut.

And giving her Excalibur is a nice thought. But the writer and the execution of that series is a disppointment. IMO.

Tini didn't even pitch her story with Betsy in mind. She wanted Apocalypse. She was mandated Betsy.

I think they jumbled this whole thing from the beginning.

Return of Wolverine happened and we got all those lame mini's. Mystery in Madripoor ending and we went straight into Extermination which I don't even remember Betsy featuring in this event.

WHAT THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE! Is given Betsy and Kwannon a mini to figure this **** out. Instead of leaving that story hanging for like 5 months.

Uncanny relaunched and Betsy got a good showing in those first 10 issues. And it would have been awesome to see more of that.

Then we got pulled into lame Age of X-Man. And that's that.

Ok I'm done bitching. I like both characters.

And so much more could have been done between Mystery in Madripoor and the Uncanny X-Men relaunch.

X-editors screwed up in my opinion.

[CRaymond]

Betsy v Kwannon could’ve been a single issue; ideally X-Men 1, where we learn the new status quo for the CITIZENS of Krakoa. Council is gathered, Captains are assigned, Criminals are swallowed, and Betsy is banished.

“Paradise” Krakoa should’ve come with more bittersweetness.

[Havok83]

The way Betsy and Kwannon have been handled has been so sloppy. There really should have been a Giant Size X-men: Psylocke issue focused on both

[CGAR]

Betsy v Kwannon could’ve been a single issue; ideally X-Men 1, where we learn the new status quo for the CITIZENS of Krakoa. Council is gathered, Captains are assigned, Criminals are swallowed, and Betsy is banished.

“Paradise” Krakoa should’ve come with more bittersweetness.

mhmmm interesting.

Why banished though?

[CRaymond]

mhmmm interesting.

Why banished though?

Might be the wrong word, but I want Kwannon v Betsy to be an explosive violent confrontation that reveals Betsy always kinda knew Kwannon was underneath her own consciousness. Like prosecuting the magic surgery in Get Out.

I realize that turns Betsy into a really ugly abuser, but you and I both want more character work with our Braddock family. The first arc would be about Betsy accepting her villainous side, working through it, and accepting the Captain Britain role with intention, reverence, and trepidation.

Brain would be promoted to Krakoan ambassador, leaving the CB role open and available. It should be bestowed, not an accident of circumstance.

I forgot the most importance turn: BETSY herself has to give Kwannon the Psylocke identity, and request of her X-Men allies to help her find her place on Krakoa. Betsy needs to choose to give it away. Losing her identity is the closest they get to eye-for-an-eye.

[Selene]

^Not that I have to add much to that discussion, since I want things back to the way things were before Mystery in Madripoor, but is this for real? Betsy Braddock was consciously blocking Kwannon from controlling her body all along, all while she had been led to suicide after having been privy to her being chief of a fascist cult in a dystopian future?! I mean Inferno makes Madelyne look like a saint by comparison...

[CRaymond]

If the goal is to “elevate” Betsy Braddock out of the Psylocke role amongst the X-Men, then like others have suggested, the Betsy Braddock identity itself needs to be re-examined and defined outside of the X-Men so that her adoption of the Captain Britain identity is a much bigger deal.

It’s not canon that Betsy knew Kwannon was in the Sunken Place. I’m suggesting Betsy may have suspected it, but chose to not do anything about it.

I’m sorry you prefer the previous problematic Psylocke. I like that she’s somewhat simpler now. It’s too bad Betsy and Kwannon are both train wrecks right now.

[Tazirai]

You are a singular unique individual Logan.

Others see, feel, and think differently.

Logans been lick his since I first joined CBR. I don't expect change at this point.

Ok hear me out. Captain Britain solo featuring Betsy Braddock.

If they do want to elevate Betsy the way they elevated Carol Danvers.

Captain Marvels run pulls how many readers 20,000 or lower? IDK. Can someone find the chart for that.

Betsy's solo Psylocke mini pulled in 14,000-16,000. I THINK. If Im remembering that correctly.

If they wanted to push her with a good artist and writer I think she could get above Captain Marvel.

But would the Captain Britain name be a hinderance or not? Or did she only get those numbers because of the Psylocke codename?

Do we know how many units Brian Braddock's Captain Britain series sold?

I feel like Betsy is more popular. IMO.

So all interesting things to think about since i'm bored doing nothing at home.

But about Betsy.

Keep the current artist but give her a writer who gives a ****. She needs a book focused on her alone. I get why Kwannon got a book, so people can know her. But Excalibur can work if the book wasn't so focused on Apocalypse.

[Tazirai]

Might be the wrong word, but I want Kwannon v Betsy to be an explosive violent confrontation that reveals Betsy always kinda knew Kwannon was underneath her own consciousness. Like prosecuting the magic surgery in Get Out.

I realize that turns Betsy into a really ugly abuser, but you and I both want more character work with our Braddock family. The first arc would be about Betsy accepting her villainous side, working through it, and accepting the Captain Britain role with intention, reverence, and trepidation.

Brain would be promoted to Krakoan ambassador, leaving the CB role open and available. It should be bestowed, not an accident of circumstance.

I forgot the most importance turn: BETSY herself has to give Kwannon the Psylocke identity, and request of her X-Men allies to help her find her place on Krakoa. Betsy needs to choose to give it away. Losing her identity is the closest they get to eye-for-an-eye.

Naw. I don't want her villainous at all. That's too much of a retcon, and people have done DISASTROUS attempted retcons to her before that all went away.

Why do people want them to fight so much? Where's the canon of this suppression of Kwannon? What book?

I want them to get a mini where they need to team up and work that **** out, with a GOOD writer, not some hack who is looking to have them fight for half the book saying nothing, then agreeing that Betsy was a **** person.

I'm sick of Heroes having this OH! I'm secretly terrible.

Betsy' biggest thing one she accepted her role as a hero was to be a BIG DAMN HERO!!!

[CRaymond]

I think if Excalibur could work great if Betsy was actively working AGAINST Apocalypse. Like if HE and certain Krakoan agents overtook the Lighthouse, employed Clan Akkaba, and used it to launch an attack on Otherworld, Betsy would be forced to build a team of peripheral powerhouses to band together and protect the realm(s).

[Tazirai]

I think if Excalibur could work great if Betsy was actively working AGAINST Apocalypse. Like if HE and certain Krakoan agents overtook the Lighthouse, employed Clan Akkaba, and used it to launch an attack on Otherworld, Betsy would be forced to build a team of peripheral powerhouses to band together and protect the realm(s).

I can see this. I've read some of Tini's stuff and she's not a terrible writer, but she REALLY sucks at Betsy having a voice on her own team.

[CRaymond]

I'm sick of Heroes having this OH! I'm secretly terrible.

I think you and I have had this specific difference in opinion before. I can understand the desire to move quickly through difficult truths and get on with the business of being a hero as pure as the driven snow, but that ain’t Psylocke.

For almost 30 years, she was the narrative embodiment of British colonialism. I’m saying, lean all the way into it, and give a British hero a British story. Actually showing an aristocratic protagonist be forced to contend with the realities of exploitation would be new, relevant, and appropriate to the themes of the X-Men and the challenges of the character.

[CGAR]

Might be the wrong word, but I want Kwannon v Betsy to be an explosive violent confrontation that reveals Betsy always kinda knew Kwannon was underneath her own consciousness. Like prosecuting the magic surgery in Get Out.

I realize that turns Betsy into a really ugly abuser, but you and I both want more character work with our Braddock family. The first arc would be about Betsy accepting her villainous side, working through it, and accepting the Captain Britain role with intention, reverence, and trepidation.

Brain would be promoted to Krakoan ambassador, leaving the CB role open and available. It should be bestowed, not an accident of circumstance.

I forgot the most importance turn: BETSY herself has to give Kwannon the Psylocke identity, and request of her X-Men allies to help her find her place on Krakoa. Betsy needs to choose to give it away. Losing her identity is the closest they get to eye-for-an-eye.

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. But if thats the arc you would want pursued for Betsy than thats what you would want.

Betsy isn't and shouldn't be viewed as bad in this sitution. She just needs a better writer.

[CRaymond]

I disagree with this wholeheartedly. But if thats the arc you would want pursued for Betsy than thats what you would want.

Yeah I figured I was treading into unpopular and controversial opinions.

How would you get to where you want to go?

[houndsofluv]

Might be the wrong word, but I want Kwannon v Betsy to be an explosive violent confrontation that reveals Betsy always kinda knew Kwannon was underneath her own consciousness. Like prosecuting the magic surgery in Get Out.

I realize that turns Betsy into a really ugly abuser, but you and I both want more character work with our Braddock family. The first arc would be about Betsy accepting her villainous side, working through it, and accepting the Captain Britain role with intention, reverence, and trepidation.

Brain would be promoted to Krakoan ambassador, leaving the CB role open and available. It should be bestowed, not an accident of circumstance.

I forgot the most importance turn: BETSY herself has to give Kwannon the Psylocke identity, and request of her X-Men allies to help her find her place on Krakoa. Betsy needs to choose to give it away. Losing her identity is the closest they get to eye-for-an-eye.

You know what, I think this would be a super interesting take, especially considering what you added later about Betsy serving almost as a representation of colonialism and working to overcome that. Talk about a deep-dive into the heroic psyche...exploring how sometimes we don't even recognize the "evilness" of our learned impulses and how this can deal dealt with and overcame. Incredibly ballsy and boy oh boy would it be easy to mess up in the wrong hands. If Marvel were willing to commit to a plot like this, bring on a team capable + willing to execute it with grace +thoughtfulness and provide them with enough space to do so id be all the way down. what would freak me out is that it could be so easily fumbled (and the track record isn't exactly on Marvel's side) which could mean further complications to an already messy af storyline

At this point though I'd settle for just an honest conversation between Kwannon and Betsy. No more shying away because its a messy situation and no one wants to be the one to get their hands a lil dirty.