Elizabeth (Betsy) Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2020

[MentalManipulator]

I feel like Tini kinda already killed Betsy. She’s had no growth the entire run so far. Giving someone a new title isn’t growth. She honestly hasn’t done anything with the title Captain Britain. Rictor has all the growth (really just in power upgrades, so maybe still no growth). Apocalypse has gotten all the major attention. They’re the only two that have done anything for the entire run of Excalibur. Oh wait, Betsy killed her brother, but that’s a normal thing for her. And she’s talked to Shogo dragon. Excalibur where Captain Britain isn’t the main character.

I'm not a super fan of how she's been writing Betsy either. But I rode those issues up until now. X of Swords Betsy didn't show up yet so I am choosing to be optimistic about it until proven wrong.

[CGAR]

Some of you are acting like the Captain Britain title itself didnt benefit Betsy. Or it did a disservice to her.

NO. It's the WRITER who did. She is the one who didn't do anything with it. We got no insight. We got no tidbits.

Her brother just gives it to her.

What are her thoughts? What is she going through? Where does she see herself in the future? When is she going to stop avoiding Kwannon? When is she gonna deal? What does X-Men leadership think of her new role? What does she think of the Quiet Council?

Tini Howard should have given all of that to us in the first 12 issues. We should have gone morsels of information.

She keeps saying in interviews that she doesnt want to give us all the details and information right away.

But she hasnt given us anything.

Like seriously if you all really think about it. We have been WAITING FOR SOME DAMN INSIGHT AND PROGRESS since the cliff hanger of Hunt for Wolverine: Mystery in Madripoor.

I'm so annoyed that people think im negative when its actual constructive criticism.

And now everyone thinks she's going to be killed off again. Great. Yay. Such a great story arc.

Also it seems like such an obvious end for her that it's probably not going to happen.

[Psyknight]

Some of you are acting like the Captain Britain title itself didnt benefit Betsy. Or it did a disservice to her.

NO. It's the WRITER who did. She is the one who didn't do anything with it. We got no insight. We got no tidbits.

Her brother just gives it to her.

What are her thoughts? What is she going through? Where does she see herself in the future? When is she going to stop avoiding Kwannon? When is she gonna deal? What does X-Men leadership think of her new role? What does she think of the Quiet Council?

Tini Howard should have given all of that to us in the first 12 issues. We should have gone morsels of information.

She keeps saying in interviews that she doesnt want to give us all the details and information right away.

But she hasnt given us anything.

Like seriously if you all really think about it. We have been WAITING FOR SOME DAMN INSIGHT AND PROGRESS since the cliff hanger of Hunt for Wolverine: Mystery in Madripoor.

I'm so annoyed that people think im negative when its actual constructive criticism.

And now everyone thinks she's going to be killed off again. Great. Yay. Such a great story arc.

Also it seems like such an obvious end for her that it's probably not going to happen.

I agree that the Captain Britain title is not the problem, it’s the poor way it’s been handled so far. Being Captain Britain can still be a great thing for the character if the writers start doing something with it. The writers can say all the right things in interviews, but when I’ve already been dissaponted by the books, it’s hard to take any of that seriously. All the things that you’ve pointed out that could’ve been addressed in Excalibur, maybe they’ll finally be addressed in X of Swords, but if that is the case then what is the point of Excalibur? Was the point to deprive her of any growth or development that anything done with X of Swords seems extra interesting by comparison?

Maybe she will beat Isca and somehow survive. Maybe Tini’s been writing her as this way so we’re shocked that she actually scores a big victory. That can be the bone they throw to us for the nothing we’ve gotten so far.

[Psy-lock]

My prediction is that she will win, but in a very unsatisfying, ass-pully way. Like a last moment power up or something and that power up will be taken as "character development".

[Rnap22]

Some of you are acting like the Captain Britain title itself didnt benefit Betsy. Or it did a disservice to her.

NO. It's the WRITER who did. She is the one who didn't do anything with it. We got no insight. We got no tidbits.

Her brother just gives it to her.

What are her thoughts? What is she going through? Where does she see herself in the future? When is she going to stop avoiding Kwannon? When is she gonna deal? What does X-Men leadership think of her new role? What does she think of the Quiet Council?

Tini Howard should have given all of that to us in the first 12 issues. We should have gone morsels of information.

She keeps saying in interviews that she doesnt want to give us all the details and information right away.

But she hasnt given us anything.

Like seriously if you all really think about it. We have been WAITING FOR SOME DAMN INSIGHT AND PROGRESS since the cliff hanger of Hunt for Wolverine: Mystery in Madripoor.

I'm so annoyed that people think im negative when its actual constructive criticism.

And now everyone thinks she's going to be killed off again. Great. Yay. Such a great story arc.

Also it seems like such an obvious end for her that it's probably not going to happen.

I think most of us are in agreement. Tini hasn’t done or used Betsy interesting at all. I think The mantle of Captain Britain was to boost her up like the change of Ms Marvel to Captain Marvel did, but they aren’t the same thing. Tini hasn’t explored anything. Why even give her the title? X of Swords.. where is Excalibur in all of this? Not for nothing, but these characters should have been the FIRST people we see in this crossover. We have Apocalypse and Rictor, but Betsy (who is the champion of Otherworld right) isn’t anywhere to be seen? Uh.. so they were just in Otherworld and now they’re where? These are Tini’s missteps. She has good ideas, but they’re not executed correctly or they just disappear. Her writing is bad. I’ve read every issue and every issue I hope that it will be amazing, and they’re not..

And I don’t think you’re negative at all. You’re seeing the faults of the writing like of the rest of us. I enjoy your posts (Psyknight) because it makes me know I’m not going crazy reading this and not enjoying like I want to.

[Psycwave]

I feel like Tini kinda already killed Betsy. She’s had no growth the entire run so far. Giving someone a new title isn’t growth. She honestly hasn’t done anything with the title Captain Britain. Rictor has all the growth (really just in power upgrades, so maybe still no growth). Apocalypse has gotten all the major attention. They’re the only two that have done anything for the entire run of Excalibur. Oh wait, Betsy killed her brother, but that’s a normal thing for her. And she’s talked to Shogo dragon. Excalibur where Captain Britain isn’t the main character.

We've had Betsy question why Saturnyne and the citadel is hidden to her (Saturnyne doesn't like her), she's been struggling to deal with this role that was forced on her and what it means, we've seen her lacking in leadership because she keeps looking inward at her own issues rather than the whole team, and now we're coming to the culmination of a lot of those points with X of Swords. She's being broken down right now, the growth is coming.

But I'm also in the minority that I'm in no rush or need to have Betsy/Kwannon stuff anytime soon. I'm down for letting them breathe on their own and think it'd be weird for them to instantly chat and be buds. It should have that same awkward drawn out tension that Rogue/Carol had.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

The problem with waiting and waiting is that eventually storylines like the Betsy and Kwannon stuff can get pushed aside long enough that some other writer down the line does it and messes it up, you can wait to long for things...

They say that things are coming to a head, that remains to be seen whether it's actually true or not...

And what is the likelihood that Kwannon and Betsy will be anywhere near each other once Hickman's time on the books ends, Kwannon could get shunted off to limbo and ignored...

So far it seems that the CB title has done nothing for Betsy, and for all that we know her reason for being in the crossover could be less about her and more about who she is related to or where she's from, Otherworld, than anything else...sadly...

[Psycwave]

Captain Britain has done nothing for her because it arguably means nothing to her. Something that has been hinted at in Excalibur and is being explored during this event. It's like Saturnyne told her it's more than just putting on the costume and claiming the name. Whatever the outcome of the Isca battle may be it's going to be a primetime to delve deeper into Braddock history and connections to Otherworld as the solicit/cover for #16 suggests.

Are we waiting? Absolutely. But I mean, it just feels like long form storytelling. Tini isn't going anywhere anytime soon and she's pretty much just getting started with the deeper lore.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well after this event the rosters could get changed up and such so who knows...and we don't know how long any of the writers will be on any book...waiting like a year or so would probably not endear the book and writer to many fans in the case of Betsy and her future and all of that, and then the payoff would have to be HUGE to explain the wait, otherwise it'd be HATED no matter what happened...

[Psycwave]

Betsy fans are rarely happy with anything so it'd be on brand lol.

[Selene]

Without wanting to sound condescending, folks shouldn't be quick to jump on the bandwagon that her becoming Captain Britain is an elevation because the editorial supports that narrative. Her lack of meaningful introspections or exchanges with other characters, her confinement to just one monthly title, her disengagement from any "Kwannon-oriented" traits in her characterisation, these are evidence to the contrary. And it's certainly no proof that Tini Howard is the sole guilty party in this. No-one in Marvel has faith that Betsy can work as Captain Britain, IMO.

Think about it; her return to her original body was handled in a derivative Wolverine mini by a writer who then left leaving also his successors to explain who Betsy and Kwannon are now, what they can do, etc. With no foundation on which to go on really. That really hurt Psylocke, because it gave the necessary licence for other creators to introduce some outrageous plot twists, like her being treated as a body snatcher in Fallen Angels, etc., that show Betsy in anything but a positive light.

This has been an ongoing thing for a very long time now. They keep shuffling strategies for Betsy, then executing them in such a lazy, unprofessional manner, that the fans end up feeling unsatisfied.

It's like saying that Gambit and Rogue are now more prominent characters after officialy becoming one of Marvel's high profile married couples. It's the exact opposite that's happened.

[Psycwave]

To be fair, Kwannon thought she was a filthy body snatcher from the first moment they met and FA was her book so it wasn't really needed to show Betsy in a positive light. Honestly, she shouldn't be. The situation is messy and awkward and I think it's kind of great they've approached it that way. Betsy still got to live and be great and she's got guilt about it. That's real.

[Selene]

^I'm guessing you also liked it when Brubaker retconned Xavier into a manipulating liar?

Betsy understands more than any X-Man (and better than any other telepath, in fact) what it is to lose your sense of identity. Challenging that notion is a huge disservice for her.

[Psycwave]

^I'm guessing you also liked it when Brubaker retconned Xavier into a manipulating liar?

Betsy understands more than any X-Man (and better than any other telepath, in fact) what it is to lose your sense of identity. Challenging that notion is a huge disservice for her.

Xavier doesn't really move me so it didn't bother me.

I agree with the first part and that's why I don't mind how it's been handled. Betsy knowing what it's like to lose yourself is exactly why Kwannon should be upset. Betts said she never took back her old body because it was always by someone else's means but what was she doing on her own time? She could've been looking for ways to restore herself or even see if she could bring Kwannon back but she did none of that. She was relishing in that ninja life and never thought twice about ole girl before or after she popped up. I'd be pissed tf off, too.

I don't think Cap is a bad person in anyway (wouldn't be my fave if I did) but she could've handled things post Revanche a tad bit better. I think Tini hit the nail on the head when she said Betsy just acted as the privileged white woman she is.

[Rnap22]

Why would Betsy have looked for a way to reverse or give up that body when her old body died, with Kwannon in it? The only thing she could have done was gone to Masque and ask for her face to be reshaped like her original body. Then what? She would have died, remade her original body and then Kwannon would have appeared in her body with Betsy’s Caucasian face! Writers need to stop writing Betsy As the body stealer. Before the retcon, Betsy was the victim. After the retcon, BOTH were the victims. And now because someone wrote another retcon, Kwannon is the victim because she was still somewhere in the body. No. Hash it the hell out already. Giant Sized X-men Betsy & Kwannon.