Elizabeth (Betsy) Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2020

[Havok83]

Sorry for not understanding. And thanks for explaining.

Well, Betsy would take a hit, IMO, because in spite of the meager 3-year time period, the change was meant to be a big chapter for her character (very much in contrast to the recent one...) and with Jean and Xavier also in the picture, there would have been little use for another telepath with a body armour as defining characteristic in a major X-book.

I like CRaymond's idea, and it would have worked well in the grand scheme of things and on the condition she kept all of her enhancements, if it had been carried out early.

Would that have changed much? After the Kwannon stuff was wrapped up, they kinda put Betsy with Warren and pushed them to the side. She was still around but definitely wasnt being used as much as when the Blue team had been first concieved. She didnt really have a whole lot to do in the mid 90s and they flat out wrote her out in the late 90s

[CGAR]

Just something that popped into my head. They could have introduced Lee psy ninja if they wanted to I don’t understand why they thought they needed to turn her Asian to make her ‘hot’.

Silvestri drew her stunning.

Imagine if they didn’t make the change and Jim Lee just gave Betsy a sexier uniform.
And she still fought from a distance and used her telepathic powers better than most like she did against the Brotherhood.

He gave all the x-men there sexy 90s looks.

I don’t get why the Jim Lee one stuck with X-men editors

[Selene]

Would that have changed much? After the Kwannon stuff was wrapped up, they kinda put Betsy with Warren and pushed them to the side. She was still around but definitely wasnt being used as much as when the Blue team had been first concieved. She didnt really have a whole lot to do in the mid 90s and they flat out wrote her out in the late 90s

Well, that's a big what if. She was still a part of the merchandise throughout the 90's and the change led to her being featured in the Blue/Gold era unlike Longshot, Dazzler and Havok.

Lobdell and Davis, particularly the former, were reluctant to give every character they wrote in their books respectable focus. I don't really see how she'd have been in a similar or better position without the upgrade from the Hand.

[CRaymond]

From what I’ve read, the physical transformation to Asian was always intended to be temporary by Claremont, whose words led me to believe he thought of it as a magical glamour. The choice to make her Asian was probably Lee’s. He was young and incredibly talented, and full of ideas that Claremont was open to. One dude draws a hot Asian lady and the other dude thinks it’s cool, so they ran with it. But then X-Tinction happened, 275 happened, Muir and Blue & Gold and all of a sudden it was ANOTHER thread he never closed... and he was off the books.

I mean didn’t Punisher appear as a black man for an arc? Tasteless, but it was an arc around the same time. The Asian Betsy arc just ran way too long.

Are you asking why East Asian, as opposed to South Asian, Middle Eastern, or black? I thought it was just the zeitgeist, rife with ninja Turtles, ninja Batman, ninja Daredevils. The late 80s had a specific strain of badass orientalism.

****

There were several points along the way that things could’ve been righted. Kwannon’s introduction was the first sign that no one was steering the ship. The Crimson Dawn storyline was another mistake, banking on magical badass orientalism that further denied the characters origins. Then Psi-War removes her telepathy, and the English precognitive is an Asian teleporter. Claremont comes back but makes her telekinetic for no real reason. Death by Vargas, and he’s denied his plan to have Jamie bring her back British. By then the brand asset is solidified and it takes decades before wisdom prevails.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Would that have changed much? After the Kwannon stuff was wrapped up, they kinda put Betsy with Warren and pushed them to the side. She was still around but definitely wasnt being used as much as when the Blue team had been first concieved. She didnt really have a whole lot to do in the mid 90s and they flat out wrote her out in the late 90s

Actually they were together right in the middle of the "Kwannon stuff" so that had little to do with them being together and her in the Asian body wasn't the reason that she was pushed to the side, though Betsy in the Asian body to me was never anything that needed to be "righted".

[CRaymond]

read it again.

Psylocke flirted with Cyclops, then fought Jean Grey IMMEDIATELY prior to Kwannon’s debut. You can tell because Jean is covering her face and looks pissed in the image posted with Revanche.

[Havok83]

Actually they were together right in the middle of the "Kwannon stuff" so that had little to do with them being together and her in the Asian body wasn't the reason that she was pushed to the side, though Betsy in the Asian body to me was never anything that needed to be "righted".

Warren and Betsy did not start interacting in any meaningful capacity until the issue that Kwannon died (X-men 31). They were not together during the middle of the Kwannon arc which began in X-Men 20. They dont officially become a couple until UXM 319 which was months later

No one said Betsy in the Asian body was the reason that she was cast aside. The point is the writers of the mid 90s did not know what to do with her after the Kwannon stuff was wrapped up. She largely existed as one half of of a pairing with Warren and both were largely sidelined

[Steel Inquisitor]

Actually they were together right in the middle of the "Kwannon stuff" so that had little to do with them being together and her in the Asian body wasn't the reason that she was pushed to the side, though Betsy in the Asian body to me was never anything that needed to be "righted".

It's the implications. Having a white lady possessing the body of a Chinese woman was less controversial in the 90's then now and they mostly got away with it because Asian Psylocke was drawn mostly like she was white anyway. Take away the Kwannon incident, don't mention Betsy's possessing a Chinese woman and draw her the same but in the iconic outfit and amp her sex appeal and nothing changes. Far too many minority characters in comics weren't drawn like they should be just generic white, especially before now where it's more of a priority to acknowledge diversity. This happened to M and Connor Hawk, too.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Warren and Betsy did not start interacting in any meaningful capacity until the issue that Kwannon died (X-men 31). They were not together during the middle of the Kwannon arc which began in X-Men 20. They dont officially become a couple until UXM 319 which was months later

No one said Betsy in the Asian body was the reason that she was cast aside. The point is the writers of the mid 90s did not know what to do with her after the Kwannon stuff was wrapped up. She largely existed as one half of of a pairing with Warren and both were largely sidelined

Was their trip to the Hellfire Club before the wedding, if so then there was more signs that they were headed to being together, anyway it wasn't her being in the Asian body or being with Warren as the reasons that they didn't use her, it just sounds like some here are trying to say those two things kept her back or contributed to it and viewing that both were bad things for Betsy and I don't agree...I liked that Betsy was far more than her physical appearance, she had an iconic and unique look...

[Havok83]

Was their trip to the Hellfire Club before the wedding, if so then there was more signs that they were headed to being together, anyway it wasn't her being in the Asian body or being with Warren as the reasons that they didn't use her, it just sounds like some here are trying to say those two things kept her back or contributed to it and viewing that both were bad things for Betsy and I don't agree...I liked that Betsy was far more than her physical appearance, she had an iconic and unique look...

Did you not read what I said. X-men 31, which was the issue that Kwannon died was the start of them having meaningful interaction. That was the very end of the Kwannon saga, NOT the middle of it. FYI, it happened after Scott and Jean's wedding which was #30

[LoganAlpha30X33]

You could say meaningful interaction was during their trip to the Hellfire Club if you believe Shinobi's words and don't think that he meant Cyclops...which was before the wedding...

[Havok83]

You could say meaningful interaction was during their trip to the Hellfire Club if you believe Shinobi's words and don't think that he meant Cyclops...which was before the wedding...

That was X-men 29, which was still towards the end of the story

[Shadowcat]

Was their trip to the Hellfire Club before the wedding, if so then there was more signs that they were headed to being together, anyway it wasn't her being in the Asian body or being with Warren as the reasons that they didn't use her, it just sounds like some here are trying to say those two things kept her back or contributed to it and viewing that both were bad things for Betsy and I don't agree...I liked that Betsy was far more than her physical appearance, she had an iconic and unique look...

Their trip to the Hellfire Club was X-Men 29, and the wedding was issue 30.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I just knew that the trip was before the wedding, Betsy got all dressed up, Tessa knocked them both almost out and the Hellfire Club goons changed their clothes while both were wide awake but couldn't move and how it felt like a terrible violation...one that Betsy never mentioned to Tessa during their X-treme days...

[Izanami]

I re-read issue 29. Betsy and Warren fell unconscious while all slightly feeling their clothes being changed and to quote the yellow boxes, "And thirty minutes later, when they awaken the trespass is readily understood..." The reason why Betsy went with Warren was due to Warren getting the invite, to find out what they are up to with Shinobi, and needing to leave the mansion and party. Beast was even their limousine driver in which Betsy would connect if they needed any backup. I am unsure what dialogue Shinobi mentions regarding Betsy having feelings towards Warren, I can't find it anywhere. Betsy is just in the background while Shinobi and Warren angst about their childhood and his desire to be the White King, ho yay moment. Shinobi even quotes how its all about them while Betsy is down on the ground.