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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    I mostly agree.

    But, Amanda is not coming back, unless it is to dispose of her more decisively. Similarly, I suspect that this will end with Arno being revealed as being a fake of some kind, and never related to Tony. The net result will be that the adoption angle will go away, never to be mentioned again.

    If I recall, (from back in 2013/14), the adoption reveal was foisted on Gillen, mid-run. He had not planned to include a reveal that Tony Stark was adopted. (Look at the God-Killer armor shown in "The Secret Origin of Tony Stark". It looks like a suit of Stark tech, almost as if Tony were genetically pre-disposed towards that design. The basic visuals imply that Arno was a last minute, and back-written addition.)

    Gillen's comments implied that he had the idea to use Arno (who was "just there") for the adoption reveal. At the same time, Marvel was disposing of the old (DeFalco/Trimpe) Arno Stark, along with some other future characters in Remender's concurrent run on "Uncanny Avengers".

    The old iteration of Arno (aka "Iron Man 2020) was one of a half dozen characters shown being pulled from previously established futures that were being wiped out by some kind of time-travel brouhaha. The common theme for most of those futures is that they were getting harder to justify as define as "distant". (Even 2099 is within an expected human life-span at this point.) If we assume that Marvel was initially planning to use "Secret Wars" (2015) as a way to dispose of the multiverse, then getting ride of established futures (and related characters) makes even more sense.


    Since showing up in the early 80s, Arno Stark has gone from being a descendant, to a cousin's descendant, an off-spring of that cousin (in the 90s), a long-lost pseudo-sibling (during Gillen's and Bendis' runs) and will probably end up being some kind of evil techno-clone. .
    I used to think they would retconned it but we are deep the rabbit hole. I donít think thereís turning back. How would they retcon this mess.

    Gotta say iron man 2020 #1 surprised me. Really enjoyable.
    Yikes, my grammar has gone to shit. Rip

  2. #182
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    I used to think they would retconned it but we are deep the rabbit hole. I don’t think there’s turning back. How would they retcon this mess.
    Assuming that I am right, and that the space-based threat referenced in the first issue is going to be the rogue Recorder from Gillen's run (2012-2014), that opens the door to undoing the (really stupid) adoption reveal. (At this point, it looks like the Mandarin theory floating around in this thread is a step above fanfic, so I am ignoring it.)

    Here is one possible scenario:

    The rogue Recorder shows up on Earth. Somewhere in the fight, the Recorder will grab Tony, revealing that Tony is the Recorder's intended pawn. Everything about Arno was a fake-out by the Recorder in an attempt to manipulate Tony (as per the Recorder's plan during the Gillen run of "Iron Man"). Logical flaws in the plan could be explained away by the Recorder being an insane space robot. The resource cost could be explained away by the insane space robot having a large bank account.

    Keep in mind, the only "authoritative" character that has said the adoption/swap happend is the Recorder (easily dismissed as an unreliable source). Tony was lied to. Every other character only knows what Tony has said, meaning they were also duped. The question of Tony's identity/humanity is hardly unprecedented. Having copies of Tony act/live as Tony is an idea that dates back to the 90s.

    In practical terms, this would negate the adoption angle that -a) nobody (other than Bendis) wanted and-b) makes little sense.

    As a bonus, it would be thematically consistent with Slott's run (the difference between artificial and natural intellegence/life) and with Gillen's run (morality of technology and using life as technology).


    Plot details aside, I am guessing that "Iron Man 2020" is where the adoption reveal will be undone. Arno will stick around for a few years, as some kind of evil homunculus of Tony, eventually being disposed of in a later event.
    Current pull-file:

    Force Works 2020
    Iron Man 2020
    2020 misc (assorted one-shots)
    Transformers
    Transformers: Galaxies
    X-Force
    X-Men


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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Assuming that I am right, and that the space-based threat referenced in the first issue is going to be the rogue Recorder from Gillen's run (2012-2014), that opens the door to undoing the (really stupid) adoption reveal. (At this point, it looks like the Mandarin theory floating around in this thread is a step above fanfic, so I am ignoring it.)

    Here is one possible scenario:

    The rogue Recorder shows up on Earth. Somewhere in the fight, the Recorder will grab Tony, revealing that Tony is the Recorder's intended pawn. Everything about Arno was a fake-out by the Recorder in an attempt to manipulate Tony (as per the Recorder's plan during the Gillen run of "Iron Man"). Logical flaws in the plan could be explained away by the Recorder being an insane space robot. The resource cost could be explained away by the insane space robot having a large bank account.

    Keep in mind, the only "authoritative" character that has said the adoption/swap happend is the Recorder (easily dismissed as an unreliable source). Tony was lied to. Every other character only knows what Tony has said, meaning they were also duped. The question of Tony's identity/humanity is hardly unprecedented. Having copies of Tony act/live as Tony is an idea that dates back to the 90s.

    In practical terms, this would negate the adoption angle that -a) nobody (other than Bendis) wanted and-b) makes little sense.

    As a bonus, it would be thematically consistent with Slott's run (the difference between artificial and natural intellegence/life) and with Gillen's run (morality of technology and using life as technology).


    Plot details aside, I am guessing that "Iron Man 2020" is where the adoption reveal will be undone. Arno will stick around for a few years, as some kind of evil homunculus of Tony, eventually being disposed of in a later event.
    What about Howard and Maria?

  4. #184
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    The Howard and Maria showing up in the current series were created by Arno, and are simply 'bots. They will probably die by the end of the run.
    Current pull-file:

    Force Works 2020
    Iron Man 2020
    2020 misc (assorted one-shots)
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  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    The Howard and Maria showing up in the current series were created by Arno, and are simply 'bots. They will probably die by the end of the run.
    But they have the minds of the real ones, also I think Motherboard was aware of Arno too. And he didn’t put his hands in Motherboard until she was defeated so it can not be said that Arno modified her
    edit: I checked it, Tony accuses her of using him as a decoy and Motherboard answer surprissed that he knows about Arno. This copy of the mind of Maria Stark is from the classic Iron man comics there was no way Arno could have modify her ( also in this issue Arno just discover her existance)
    Last edited by hulkling; 01-22-2020 at 02:22 PM.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkling View Post
    But they have the minds of the real ones, also I think Motherboard was aware of Arno too. And he didnít put his hands in Motherboard until she was defeated so it can not be said that Arno modified her
    edit: I checked it, Tony accuses her of using him as a decoy and Motherboard answer surprissed that he knows about Arno. This copy of the mind of Maria Stark is from the classic Iron man comics there was no way Arno could have modify her ( also in this issue Arno just discover her existance)

    I disagree with you. I do not think this Howard and Maria have their real minds. I have previously mentioned how this Maria is def not the Maria we all knew from previous appearances. In-universe canon, Maria was nothing but a loving mom to Tony, she never showed any form of hate or cruelty towards him. As for the Motherboard, it got corrupted. I canít recall if itís Tonyís fault or the Controller. Motherboard was evil but not a reflection of how Maria was Tony. Unless of course, Slott decide to retcon her into a bad mom which is just so disrespectful.
    Yikes, my grammar has gone to shit. Rip

  7. #187
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  8. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Assuming that I am right, and that the space-based threat referenced in the first issue is going to be the rogue Recorder from Gillen's run (2012-2014), that opens the door to undoing the (really stupid) adoption reveal. (At this point, it looks like the Mandarin theory floating around in this thread is a step above fanfic, so I am ignoring it.)

    Here is one possible scenario:

    The rogue Recorder shows up on Earth. Somewhere in the fight, the Recorder will grab Tony, revealing that Tony is the Recorder's intended pawn. Everything about Arno was a fake-out by the Recorder in an attempt to manipulate Tony (as per the Recorder's plan during the Gillen run of "Iron Man"). Logical flaws in the plan could be explained away by the Recorder being an insane space robot. The resource cost could be explained away by the insane space robot having a large bank account.
    no offense. but this also sounds one step above fan fic.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    no offense. but this also sounds one step above fan fic.
    So was Gillens run.
    Yikes, my grammar has gone to shit. Rip

  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by BitParallel View Post
    So was Gillens run.
    Gillens run was a notch below fanfic imo.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    Gillens run was a notch below fanfic imo.
    That entire run was a whole fanfic. A very weird fanfic. There were aliens.
    Yikes, my grammar has gone to shit. Rip

  12. #192
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    But they have the minds of the real ones, also I think Motherboard was aware of Arno too. And he didnít put his hands in Motherboard until she was defeated so it can not be said that Arno modified her
    Plan for the reveal being as convoluted as the adoption that it is meant to undo. The parents can be dismissed as fakes, and everything about them is a lie. We can assume that Arno and Motherboard were built by the same party, but did not know each other. Or, Arno was lying and had previously manipulated Motherboard before what was shown on page. Ditto for the biological mother (the folk singer) established by Bendis.

    The guy at the comic shop has a variant of my theory, assuming that Arno is the mastermind, rather than (my theory about) the rogue Recorder from Gillen's run.

    Regardless, there will be a scene with the mastermind behind everything revealing in detail all of the strings that they were pulling for years (off-panel) to make their scheme happen. If the master-mind is the Recorder, I would expect the plan to be a follow-up to Gillen's run. ("I needed to manipulate Tony Stark to fulfill his destiny as the ultimate armor pilot...") If the mastermind is Arno, then we can assume that a crippled genius wanted to be a Stark. (I tend to think that the Recorder would be a simpler theory, as "crazy space robot" obligates less thought about precise details like "cost of the operation". But, the end result is to undo the adoption.)


    If this sounds like too much back-writing, i would point out that Marvel now wants us to assume that Shield and Hydra date back to...the Dark Ages(?) and that Avengers have pre-historic counterparts. Has anybody even glanced at the back-written history in the X-books? The only difference between those actual back-writes and my generalized theory is that this hypothetical back-write would undo a really clumsy back-write that Marvel only pushed to keep Bendis (who has since left for DC) happy.


    no offense. but this also sounds one step above fan fic.
    Oh, it is not going to read well. It is going to be a "and this hapuned, and then he did someting, and this happunz to the chawuctahs...." style info-dump.

    But, there is really no clean way to undo the adoption reveal. Yes, the adoption reveal was dumb. And, Marvel should not have actually done it. But, they did.

    It would be quicker and easier for Marvel to ignore it, and tell fans to ignore it. But, we know that is not going to happen.


    Gillens run was a notch below fanfic imo.
    The only real problem with Gillen's run was the (editorially mandated) adoption reveal. Otherwise, it was a solid run about the use and morality of technology. (It dovetails nicely with "Uber", a Gillen-written series from Avatar.)
    Current pull-file:

    Force Works 2020
    Iron Man 2020
    2020 misc (assorted one-shots)
    Transformers
    Transformers: Galaxies
    X-Force
    X-Men


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  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by CentralPower View Post
    Plan for the reveal being as convoluted as the adoption that it is meant to undo. The parents can be dismissed as fakes, and everything about them is a lie. We can assume that Arno and Motherboard were built by the same party, but did not know each other. Or, Arno was lying and had previously manipulated Motherboard before what was shown on page. Ditto for the biological mother (the folk singer) established by Bendis.

    The guy at the comic shop has a variant of my theory, assuming that Arno is the mastermind, rather than (my theory about) the rogue Recorder from Gillen's run.

    Regardless, there will be a scene with the mastermind behind everything revealing in detail all of the strings that they were pulling for years (off-panel) to make their scheme happen. If the master-mind is the Recorder, I would expect the plan to be a follow-up to Gillen's run. ("I needed to manipulate Tony Stark to fulfill his destiny as the ultimate armor pilot...") If the mastermind is Arno, then we can assume that a crippled genius wanted to be a Stark. (I tend to think that the Recorder would be a simpler theory, as "crazy space robot" obligates less thought about precise details like "cost of the operation". But, the end result is to undo the adoption.)


    If this sounds like too much back-writing, i would point out that Marvel now wants us to assume that Shield and Hydra date back to...the Dark Ages(?) and that Avengers have pre-historic counterparts. Has anybody even glanced at the back-written history in the X-books? The only difference between those actual back-writes and my generalized theory is that this hypothetical back-write would undo a really clumsy back-write that Marvel only pushed to keep Bendis (who has since left for DC) happy.




    Oh, it is not going to read well. It is going to be a "and this hapuned, and then he did someting, and this happunz to the chawuctahs...." style info-dump.

    But, there is really no clean way to undo the adoption reveal. Yes, the adoption reveal was dumb. And, Marvel should not have actually done it. But, they did.

    It would be quicker and easier for Marvel to ignore it, and tell fans to ignore it. But, we know that is not going to happen.



    The only real problem with Gillen's run was the (editorially mandated) adoption reveal. Otherwise, it was a solid run about the use and morality of technology. (It dovetails nicely with "Uber", a Gillen-written series from Avatar.)
    This sounds better than whatever marvel got in store for us. But I didnít know the adoption angle was an editorial mandate. Why tho? And Tony out of the other characters, the guy with a terrible childhood. Good way of portraying adoptive parents /s
    Yikes, my grammar has gone to shit. Rip

  14. #194
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    This sounds better than whatever marvel got in store for us.
    I am guessing that whatever Marvel does, it is going to be pretty close to what I described. (My theory is a relatively simple way to do it.) One could also assume that is is....I dunno Morgan Stark. But, it is easier to assume that an insane space robot pulled off an epic ass-pull than to assume one of Tony's disgruntled relatives. (It would also probably be easier for Marvel to move on and forget about an insane ass-pulling space-robot.)


    But I didnít know the adoption angle was an editorial mandate. Why tho? And Tony out of the other characters, the guy with a terrible childhood. Good way of portraying adoptive parents /s
    Gillen made a comment (on a letters page during his "Iron Man" run) that the adoption reveal was handed down to him. (But, Gillen's phrasing implies that he chose Arno for the "lost" Stark baby. But, the adoption idea itself was not his.)

    The common assumption is that the adoption reveal was to make Bendis happy. (At the time, Marvel was getting ready to hand Iron Man off to Bendis....who promptly did nothing with it.)
    Current pull-file:

    Force Works 2020
    Iron Man 2020
    2020 misc (assorted one-shots)
    Transformers
    Transformers: Galaxies
    X-Force
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  15. #195

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    i'm still really unclear as to why Amanda Armstrong was recruited by SHIELD in the first place. there's nothing in her background justifying it. i would imagine that a lot of their recruits are through submitted applications. as detailed in the irredeemable ant-man series, a lot of SHIELD agents start out doing menial work like accounting, security, or surveillance. they then have to test in to higher ranking positions. i can also see them recruiting for active law enforcement and/or military. but a pop rock star?? she won't stick out in a crowd, i'm sure. :eye roll:

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